Spiral Knights - THE UGLY TRUTH

THE UGLY TRUTH

55 replies [Last post]

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 11:33

Justinbox

***********************************
THE UGLY TRUTH
**********************************

This is going to be a discussion forum for the MOST part.

Disclaimer :
I have no intentions to insult, undermine or bring-down any person, guild, or monster
associated with this game.

I will discuss matters for FUN, and anyone can leave their CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK.
Maybe each week or 2x a week I'll have something to say about the Spiral Knights world.
Anyone who does NOT have a SENSE OF HUMOR or OPEN MIND , this probably will NOT
interest you - because the truth can be UGLY!

So shall we begin * Cracks knuckles*

The topic for discussion
• GUILDS .
Not everyone is into guilds, but its a part of the game's "team" aspect in a sense. Either you are
in a guild or not... Now this is what I find is utterly amazing on teh lowest of levels!
- The guild's promotional slang . Most read " we do Jellyking, romulus twins and vanduke!! even shadow lairs and lockdown!!!!!"
REALLY???? NO REALLY???? EVERYONE does either one of those bosses including snarb, so basically all guilds will be pretty much doing the same! UNLESS of course they do nothing and sit and stare at the clockworks , discussing whether to grow a cool moustache like an impostocube. And they don't even to that. Guilds need to incite activity and membership they should mention something that other guilds don't do. or make runs fun. So if you are in a guild , or have thoughts of joining a guild and you see
nothing different or standing out about that guild...then that guild isn't for u! So go find that guild that makes you wanna shake that volcanic
wolver tail of yours!

• - Then there's a recruitment application .... HAAHAHA I laugh when i read this. I've been in over 5 different guilds, most have a handful of active players. No recruitment appl was needed , but now I see a few guilds starting this off..and MANY COPYING their format, which
for some parts are MOST ridiculous as I'll mention below.
" What previous guilds have you been to?"
" Have you done tier1/2/3 solo?"
"What is your age?"
" Can you tell us something about yourself?"

Since when is past history important? Does it affect game play? Will someone turn into a gremlin because they were once in rival guild?
I think not, so why the irrelevant data? If someone is truly honest of joining a guild and apply , I see no reasons do dig up old skeletons!
On the 2nd question - joining a guild ..mainly for team/guild runs, so what does it matter if someone has done an entire tier solo or not.
It surely means they are capable of handling themselves, no doubt, but guild runs are with teammates so even if a trojan got the better of a knight and man down..surely the other teammates can pick up the slack, right? So irrelevant, unless the guild members intend to run off and
leave u during expeditions?

Last two are rather personal information...and according to the rules you are supposed to be over 13 years, and giving personal information is not allowed or encouraged (ingame). This is a double blade sword IMO , as knights are controlled by us real life persons (with a job in my case, other with school or such), and we will have priorities. Playing with teammates you will eventually befriend them in the game and supposedly will eventually ask personal questions or make such comments e.g " Won't be on tomorrow guys - it's Audit day" ..or "my cousin is getting married so no FSC this weekend". THIS IS LIFE, and questions of such arn't necessary. If someone joins the guild and becomes friends with guildies
and decide to share personal information that is up to them. There are a few LAME questions asked..but guild should be for the most part FUN, and FRIENDLY. Applications should be in the bins, next to the big blast bomb, and i'll leave it as that.

On and end note , I can understand guilds seeking ACTIVE and in some cases EXPERIENCED players, but what about the "new" recruits fresh into HAVEN and looking for a start? Are we saying that n00b ye aren’t coming in my guild so sit with the rejects and that loner basil ????? Same on those of you who nodded their heads....

So yes knights and wolvers alike, this was the ugly truth. Next talk would be "beggars and free-loaders" :D

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 11:35

Tom-Awsm

Cool story bro

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 11:58

Exileddread

Wait, huh? What was the

Wait, huh? What was the truth? I must have missed it. I don't even know what I just read, lol.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 12:19

Thimol

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...

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 12:36

Jim-Dale

Jim Dale is above the average

Jim Dale is above the average cretin that have replied here. He understands this fully.

Most of this is true. Not Jim Dales should not be hindered from joining guilds just because of previous affiliations / experience.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 12:43

Tengu

I didn't read this. It's long

I didn't read this. It's long and it starts with a

*************************
TITLE IN CAPS IN BETWEEN LINES
*************************

and a disclaimer. Tee Ell, Dee Arr.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 12:57

Exileddread

I'm not sure if that's the

I'm not sure if that's the truth I was looking for in this thread Jim, but those questions asked by guild applications are mainly there to see if you have any experience with guilds. They aren't there to hinder the joining process. However, some guilds do deny access with limited experience only because the guild master wants the guild to be better than average. A guild filled with mostly new players would have trouble achieving that.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 14:13

Justinbox

@ Exileddread - yes I believe

@ Exileddread - yes I believe you are right, which leaves the ugly truth - "the last paragraph" that most guild only want active and experienced players. :/

@Jim- it's just my perception, and if you agree then it must be true..and such questions ARE TRIVIAL in an application form.

@ "Mr. I din't read this" - so u didn't read this? Lies , I believe you did , because you posted, which probably means you care
so thank u for caring!

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 14:59

Nodocchi

I don't see why past history

I don't see why past history isn't important. Guilds provides more than just a tag under your name, they provide aid when you are having trouble in the clockworks, can help you find recipes you need, are more likely to loan you money and can provide you with access to lucrative clockwork levels. These are very real benefits that are not unlimited so guilds are justified in making sure they are not investing in a member that is going to leave their guild two days later after having gotten a 20k CR loan and all the recipes he needs. This means background checks to make sure the applicant is not a chronic drifter and that they left their old guild on bad terms and that the person is at least somewhat competent and won't be a complete drain on guild resources. Depending on the person, guildmates might even be closer than friends, and get preference in parties. It is up to the guild leader to make sure that those who join the guild are people who the other members in the guild will be able to trust and have fun with. Hence the application process.

Hope this helped you understand guilds a little bit better.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 15:05

Juances

short version

Having multiple questions, even if they look useless helps a lot. They can show you if the guy is mature enough or a kid that can't spell right for example.
It also scares lazy people or super cheap guys that don't want to spend 25cr to mail the leader.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 15:09

#10

Tengu

I did read it later. I was

I did read it later. I was gonna post a diatribe of my own, but my session logged out :\

the application process it super-important if you have a higher-level guild.

My guild mainly farms bosses. That means we need people with 1) gear, 2) good communication skills, 3) maturity, 4) patience.

Gear is self-explanatory. If you ask me to get into my guild wearing mixed 2* or non 5*able gear, you don't have a good setup and will die a bunch. Also, if you're applying to guilds wearing your "trolling" gear, you aren't gettin anywhere.

Good communication skills means the ability to have a QUALITY conversation. If the majority of your words are truncated txtspeak, or your fast English is weak, then my guild may not be a good fit as we're mainly USA players or players with high-level English ability.

Maturity is practically the most important part of my screening process. Do you like to rag on noobs? Troll /1 and /2? Do you whine when you're dead, or complain about how someone else friendly-fired you? Do you smack-talk in /gchat? Do you have a habit of belittling people in general? Can you chat without cursing, memespeaking, txtspeaking, or using lol as a punctuation?
Our guild has a lot of older players. We like to talk about things WE do, like drink, travel, and raise our kids, which immature people just can't handle without looking moronic.

Patience. Did you join my guild to raise up your Dusker or bang out 40 Almire Seals, or did you join to talk to like-minded individuals in a game setting? Do you blow a lot of CE on revs? We life-split on our guild, I dunno about you.

I wish I could email up old GMs of players who petition us for recruitment. I wanna know that someone failed another guild before they came to fail in the one I'm an officer in.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 16:09

#11

Ciopo

well my opinion is: they ask

well my opinion is:

they ask whose guild you've been before not because of rivaltry , but likely because if you've been in a good guild ( and not kicked) as opposed to a random rescue-camp-invited guild, chances are your a better player, because who you have affiliated with in the past do tell us something about your level of skill.

asking the age: that generally can be replaced with a "are you XX years old or older?", it's just there as a filter to you being mature or not mature enough, and if you are reliable in being online when needed or not, a very simple example I can give you is how my guildmates invites me to boost them through JK, then leave in the mid of d15 because their dinner is ready....

asking about you: aka "will you fit in?"

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 19:27

#12

Justinbox

useful feedback

@Tengu - so you have also agreed, like a several others that most HIGH end guilds want skilled/experienced players. Nothing is wrong with that at all, I was just saying and my point seems to be confirmed that MOST guilds are not really interested in newbies. Which is the ugly truth, as for example, if I were to now start off..and want to find a guild to help groom my skills or learn from other veteran players, I wouldn't be given the opportunity. Sad but true.

@ Ciopo - I like that JK point. It happens all the time, someone msg's u to join a run..or begggggg , then 1/2 way through they are like gtg dinner..or brb afk for 10 and end up sleeping away and everyone is waiting patiently...do i kick or not to kick* Maturity isn't the question there, it's dedication to the game.. you can have some teenagers who are truly dedicated, and then some 20yr old's who play for kicks.

I didn't mention maturity or patience or such, I was simply pointing out some questions in an "application form" which I deem as unimportant. I do agree communication is a big factor in guilds, but that was not the topic at hand.

@ GuildGM's -As for application for guilds, I thinks for some part its pretty useful (some questions), but really its just a waste ,just as in real life, hiring some for a job because he has the qualifications doesn't necessarily make him the best candidate for the job, only when they are hired you truly see what they are worth. THIS IS THE TRUTH.

I'll end this edition of the ugly truth, and next discussion (hopefully tomorrow) will be free-loaders and beggars...love them , hate them.. you decide..but they exist in the SK universe..they come in all shapes and sizes (most wear the girl sk costume). So for all you beggars out there Mr.Box is gonna put you in the spotlight, either u can shine like skolver or melt away into jelly like the King!

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 20:10

#13

Hypecorite

Ehhh, no

The majority of guilds are just social guilds for people with common interests, that don't have own thread dedications, and aren't "Srsy busnez bro", like some of the forum guilds, which are normally full of anti-social penguins who are OCD/ADD/ect over a game that is meant just to be a fun time, but to each his own.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 20:10

#14

Aumir

Oh, am I late?

I also have experienced what Justinbox says: Guilds are far from helpful most of the times. I entered one after being asked, not just invitation spammed, and in two weeks I got just... a call to go to Lockdown?? I also did one run in late Tier 3, and that was it. I tried to give a bit of life to the guild chat, and only one person answered from now and then.

What is worse it that it was all "what can I get from you" what I saw from the other guildies: the only time guild chat and such got really lively was when me and my friend found a Soul Slime/Sloom/whatisthenameoftheblueslime. And it was just so they could get in the run to see it. I also did a few jokes about it, we laughed a bit, and a return to pungent silence. Also, people tried to get into our runs without even asking when we were at Arenas - Jelly King - etc. What is with that kind of behaviour??

It would have been "normal" if the guild was a random one, but it was actually one that in that week was one of the first in Lockdown. I don't know about other guilds, but that experience really disheartened me. Dunno if I will find an actual "guild" someday in Spanish channels...

Also Juances, give 25 crowns? Are you kidding? It sounds like a scam, that kind of petition will absolutely draw off people from you or even report you.

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 20:16

#15

Psychodestroyer

@Aumir

I think Juances is referring to the cost it takes to send a mail to a player, not that he expects them to mail 25cr to the leader.

If you already knew that, mybad.

My guild has only had 3 players on in the past month-2months. INCLUDING me. And one of them is only on to check her mail now and then. I know, cuz she's my friend. But otherwise, my guild was inactive.

So I quit ><

Tue, 12/13/2011 - 20:36

#16

Kilbride

Well, you asked for an opinion...

Guild applications can be a wonderful way for the applicant to determine if the guild they are investigating is a good fit for them or not. For example, if I am not a hardcore T3 PvP monkey, and the application asks about my Lockdown activity, maybe that is not the guild for me. Knowing whether a player has beaten certain tiers or bosses can be valuable as well. If a player hasn't defeated the Royal Jelly, then as a guild master, I can decide if I want them to cross that milestone before joining or if I want to assist them in that venture. I don't want to fill my roster with T1 people that aren't going to be playing next week, adding to a demoralizing list of inactive members. (Additionally, some guilds are very popular and there is a cap on the number of members you can have, so developing some way to select 'better' applicants can be useful.)

Personally, I have goals to complete a Shadow Lair and need the help of good players. I joined Tier Zero based on their application process and what I read on the forums. They use complete sentences, demonstrate camaraderie and have an intelligent sense of humor. All the things I was looking for in a group of people with whom to run the Clockworks. That is what a guild should be, in my estimation; a group of like-minded people.

I think your post is an excellent springboard for discussion, which I'm guessing was your intention. Your disclaimer doesn't seem to match your condescending tone, however. Incredulity and mocking laughter do not foster productive discussion. Also, the formatting made it a little tough to read.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 05:05

#17

Ehsan

Meh

My two cents...

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 06:11

#18

Mightyputty

About the age thing. You do

About the age thing. You do realize that age is not part of the section headlined "giving away personal information" right? I've already seen a trend curve showing that older players are indeed more mature. Of course there's the slack offs and the really immature players even at an older age, but those types of people are much more common in younger players.

Just saying.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 06:59

#19

Regal-Ranger

Trolls will be trolls. I

Trolls will be trolls. I agree with your statement. Elitest guilds need to cool their jets and stop turning their nose up at people.
There is no sense of jealousy or envy from any player about this fact, it's just plain annoying that guilds act this way.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 11:44

#20

Nodocchi

It is also the truth that

It is also the truth that most people who try out the game quit within their first week. New players who don't like the gameplay or energy system won't keep playing the game no matter how much help from guilds they get. There are guilds which cater to such a crowd and recruit exclusively new players but they cannot be expected to invest much in each new player. Guilds with application processes generally are more active and the members are more helpful and mature because they passed the bare minimum standard imposed by the application process. Generally you will not see guilds which cater to new players recruiting on the forums since new players rarely check the forums and those who do are probably a lot more dedicated to the game and already knows whats going on and has an idea about the sort of guild he/she wants to join. By looking only at the guild recruitment section of the forums one would get a biased representation of the guilds in SK. There are guilds out there for new players, ones which don't have application processes and accept new players, but they are a different sort of guild and are generally not as vocal as the experienced guilds dominated by active players on the forums.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 13:01

#21

Justinbox

to conclude on guilds

@Killbride - Disclaimer is needed for some players may actually think I am targeting them based on the discussions I WILL talk about, so I was just letting it be made clear before anyone throws a fit. As for the format and "mocking laughter" , it's simply dry humor , to each their own.

@Nodocchi - I don't see how guild recruitment can give representation on a guild. However , it does give you a heads up of the quality/ demands of a guild.

The ugly truth with my 2 points I made on guilds were : 1- most do the same events, just under different guild names with different people , and there isn't really anything that attracts anyone. And 2ndly most elite/ older guilds house/seek experienced/good players for the prestige of their name (which is just capitalizing on good players , and there are very few that really truly look out for inexperienced players. You'd think by now an elite guild would open a sub-guild with a few good officers/vets and do just that but no. Lastly, some not all questions asked by a recruitment form are irrelevant.

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Free-Loaders and Beggars
=================

I need to move onto other uglies that plague the SK world. How many of us are actually GUILTY of either of the two terms? Are we proud of such? Oh have we seen too many knights either begging or are free-loaders.

Every haven i enter once I'm not in a clockwork depth, (or more so near the AH) there's always someone saying "pleaseeeeeee give me 200cr" or such [with poor grammar/slang - but they all mean the same]. Beggars, they are parasites or spend thrifty players with a desire to want. Time/patience is something that we should cherish and utilize doing runs or gaining loot. e.g You need 10K cr for a 4* recipe at basil, a daily run yields 6K , just know it will take you two days to purchase your goods. Some players insist on getting items now and beg..others are alternate accounts who appear to be noobs who say they may need 200 cr to pay for a depth fee. Begging constantly , and sending trade requests multiple times is a slap in the face to someone who has little interest in your endeavors and politely said "NO". It's against the rules and should be stopped! That is the truth!

As for "free-loaders" - these are just as bad as they ask for energy demands , rather than cr. Total strangers who burn out their day mist energy and still dive down into depth and refuse to get on elevators until someone tabs them. REALLY???? I think this is another selfish behavior knights do, and i've seen a couple well equipped knights (3/4* geared) doing this especially in tier2. A guy joins a depth at 9, asks to be tabbed till basil. Why not just buy CE? I can understand a tab for 1 stage or possibly 2 (depending on the character), but more than that is selfish! In guilds, some people may not say a word but the minute you enter an arena or royal carpet , someone enters the game, only few polite guild-mates will ask...but some others just jump in...i think that's most selfish as well. A friend/guildie may see you doing a FSC run, and ask " can you go solo and invite US", or kick someone and invite! That's terrible game ethics!!! The worst I've come across was a guy who joined my party at depth 13* , arena is at 14 and he's like "dude tab me!" i said no, as i had only 23 mist and wanted to use it out- yet it shows he has energy and doesn't need a tab . He went solo. (my interference is that either he would have waited for someone to enter/ or invite someone and then ask them the same?? Honestly, I don't know nor do I care.)
THANK YOU OOO for that elevator pass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you enjoy the game as much as you play, support the developers and get a pass, especially if you usually burn all of your mist and then more. So I find it unwelcoming that knights free-load when they can either support the game and buy a 30-day pass, or buy ce and go on. That way there is no dependency on anyone.

To end I would say tabbing knights is not a problem, inviting people who ask for certain depths etc is also not a problem, but abusing such puts SEVERAL knights in one of the categories above. I ask you change your selfish ways, because beggars and free-loaders are despicable and unwanted and that is the ugly truth!

(feel free to comment/defend yourselves)

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 13:58

#22

Oceanprince

Myself

I get random trade and friend requests if I am standing around in Haven. If I go near the AH, I get people begging for money. I will admit to lowballing trades (wanting stuff for a lower price then normal) and highballing (selling for a higher price then normal). But, I am at least not pathetic enough to beg.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:24

#23

Nodocchi

About guilds: Guilds are

About guilds:
Guilds are limited to 100 players, so of course you are going to get guilds that do the same events, even if all the guilds specialized and players joined guilds depending on what they do, you would still get guilds advertising doing the same things because there just isn't enough room in each guild to house all those players. Moreover, just because all guilds advertise a selling point of their guild does not make it pointless, since if one of the guilds neglect to mention it, people will assume they do not do it, and thus are less likely to join that guild. Guilds can do events or other things to distinguish themselves from each other, but to criticize guilds for not doing this and at the same time criticizing guilds for not accepting new players is contradictory. Sure guilds can organize events for it's members, but whats the point if that member is just going to leave two days later or not contribute at all? A real ugly truth is the fact that all new players are basically parasites on more experienced players in a guild until they are able to support themselves. But how would one know that a new player would even make it that far? Why invest in this new player if he/she will just quit the game two days later? If a guild is to recruit new players it then cannot afford to invest resources in events and activities for these players because most of it will just be wasted and let's face it, guilds aren't charities and the people organizing fun events are spending their time doing it instead of something else.

Also, what I meant by representation is that when you look at the guild recruitment forums what you are seeing are the recruitment ads for the active elite guilds, newer guilds which accept new players do not have enough active members to constantly bump their recruitment threads on to the front page and their source of new recruits would not be from the forums. My point is that there are guilds which recruit new players, but they are harder to see. The guild recruitment section of the forums do not give a good representation of all the guilds in Spiral Knights.

About Beggars and freeloaders
People complain about these guys constantly and pretty much everyone on the forums already agrees that they are a nuisance. I am not even sure why you are bringing this up because it is in no way controversial.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 16:33

#24

Memento

Dear OP

About guild applications:
I can't tell about the other guilds, but as far as the guild I represent is concerned, only game-related questions are asked.
ex: "How many hours you play a day?", "Around what time? (GMT)", "Have you ever defeated X?",
The only one exception is age. Not only to respect OOO policy, but also to have a nice time with players, and people behind players, who are mature enough.
Usually, less are the years, more are begging and DRAMA.

About personal information sharing:
Of course is not encouraged nor requested, but being with friendly people make one want to talk, and why not, at the end I got to know personally some real nice young men and women behind clanmates. How somebody knowing the real name you hide behind your charachter is lenitive in any way?

About experience and activity:
Sorry, exclusive guilds doesn't let everyone in. Don't get all pissy about that. Old and respected guilds can't ruin their image of prestige with some cobalt kid running around with their clan name under his head.

"So if you are in a guild , or have thoughts of joining a guild and you see
nothing different or standing out about that guild...then that guild isn't for u"

See? Guilds that "stands out" are the ones that look strong, which everyone would want to join.. guilds that doesn't welcome everyone who comes by.

In the guild I'm in, anyway, we look further, and as long as you're old enough, dedicated to the game and willing to help, you can join in proto gear and find your place, working your way to the endgame.

As you see, not every guild out there is the same.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 19:12

#25

Orangeo

Guilds are totaly useable

Guilds are totaly useable Justin. They're like your freinds with benifits list. You arent reeealy freinds with everyone, but you've got a muuuch higher chance of joining some bro at a terminal before FSC or piggybacking a shadow lair run.
Also memento, I've been told that you only get banned for 2 days for saying your under 13. The rule is more like "You cannot discuss your age if you are under 13". That being said, I side with you completely on the dramma note towards the end of that paragraph.

Onto replying to that beggar bit.
They aren't nessecarialy parisites, that implies that they are pathogenic. Beggars are in no way dangerous. They can't afford to kill me and my regalia. I side with you indefinitely on the fact that getting asked to kick someone by some random fith cousin is just rude. /pimphand to them.
To be contradictory, calling beggars selfish is... awkward. I understand your point, and agree, yet at the same time it sounds funny. It's like calling starving children fat. Regardless of them having weight, it's weird. Also, elevator passes are troll. Makes less people buy CE. Probabaly why it's up at 7k, not that it's that much of a hinderance.

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 21:20

#26

Justinbox

ignorance is bliss i suppose

I concluded the discussion about 2 facts about guilds - mentioning only about their advertising and 2ndly their application form.
I did not choose to discuss GUILDS in general , yet it seems I'm looping my point.
Please watch (somewhere in that monstrous 1st post) what i was discussing - advertisement and silly application questions.

@Nodo - I know what the use of guilds are, that's not what I was discussing. I never said beggars/free-loaders were controversial. I was simply stating there are several of them in Haven and they should stop because they are unwanted. Orangeo did mention how guild free-loading is like friends with benefits say which I will accept, and that's understandable.

@Meme - Only your 1st paragraph was deemed useful, as personal sharing of information once IN A GUILD is up to the knight's users. Even outside guilds this happens via friend lists. That's not what we were discussing. As for the last major point, who said I was pissy about some guilds not everyone in. I'm not. I was stating a truth that most elite/prestigious guilds want only experienced players leaving "the little guy" out. I frankly think there are a FEW senior members here and guilds who feel because they have been here the longest or such , think they are BETTER than others or deserve some silver spoon on the dinner table. It's quite understandable creating a reputable and distinguished guild not any knight can enter, YES guilds are different in such a sense..but my statement was clear that a truth is that Knights (new/inexperienced) will probably NOT get into such a guild, and that's that.

thank u all for your feedback, even if it was OFF TOPIC or misinterpreted . To clarify this thread is mainly me "justinbox", talking/discussing matters in SK. Initially I was going for the quirky humor with my points, but it seems that that does not aid constructive discussion, so I have taken a somewhat formal approach. However, I do not mind the silly antics anyone posts once it's not overdone.
At the end of the day this game is about using a knight , doing clockwork depths, defeating monsters and grabbing crystals. Rinsing and repeating. It's for FUN! and some people seem to forget it, and make it grown up oriented. (another ugly truth)

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 21:29

#27

Eltia

Dear OP

It's time to start your own guild and create your own recruitment process.

P.S. There is nothing ugly about it. At some point, each guild would filter their recruits somewhat. Some guilds prefer to do it early while others prefer to do it later (or both). You see the "ugly" side of guilds filtering recruits early, but fail to see the "ugly" side of guilds filtering recruits later.

Sincerely,

League of your fellow GMs on the server

Wed, 12/14/2011 - 21:40

#28

Dirt

This is going to be a

This is going to be a discussion forum for the MOST part.

Well, considering this is a discussion forum, that would make sense. Unless you are talking about this discussion thread
/petpeeve

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 10:36

#29

Justinbox

POINT duely noted..

Well, considering this is a discussion forum, that would make sense. Unless you are talking about this discussion thread
/petpeeve

@Dirt - thanks for that insightful , yet unwanted post. As much as I should have typed "thread", you don't have to be a detective to know that this IS a thread. ;)

@Elita - NTY on the guild creation. Just came to discuss/point out issues/matters/etc relating to the SK universe. As you've used the term "ugly", I refer to the truth, as being are either "harsh/bitter/not what knights want " to some fraction of the players of this game.

Sadly not much comments on the "free-loaders" aspect mentioned. I suppose it's because most of us experienced players WILL do it. Why walk a mile, when someone can drive you half way right? In the end we should at least acknowledge players before jumping in their game , and/or befriend them. It's awkward when you are in a guild and some members rarely speak to you, but always expect a quick boss run. Am I guilty of such a deed, YES to some extent, at least I'm man enough to admit it. :)

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 11:08

#30

Kurapika

@ Tengu

"the application process it super-important if you have a higher-level guild.

My guild mainly farms bosses. That means we need people with 1) gear, 2) good communication skills, 3) maturity, 4) patience.

Well said Tengu.

I am a GM myself and Tengu explained perfectly why we have recruitment standards. Personally I have taken in quite a few new players (3* and 2*) and shown them how to run fsc and JK palace efficiently. Not to mention teaching them techniques and referring them to the wiki pages that deal with classes and damage types. http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Gunslinger_Guide http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Swordmaster_Guide http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Bombing_Guide http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Damage

As for freeloaders and beggers, these in my humble opinion, are some of the worst types of players. I have never freeloaded or begged once and I expect the same from others in my guild. Begging/freeloading just shows immaturity and a personality that is incompetent. My two cents... /rant over.

High regards from: Kurapika. GM of Hunter X Hunter http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Hunter_X_Hunter

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 13:19

#31

Nodocchi

You should rename this into a

You should rename this into a rant thread, because you obviously do not care about other people's opinions. If you actually read my post you'll notice I did talk about advertisements, recruiting new players and application questions. Your opinions obviously did not stop at silly application questions as shown here:

"Since when is past history important? Does it affect game play? Will someone turn into a gremlin because they were once in rival guild?
I think not, so why the irrelevant data? If someone is truly honest of joining a guild and apply , I see no reasons do dig up old skeletons!"

Numerous people have by now pointed out to you that what you have said right there is just plain wrong and yet you ignore them.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 13:23

#32

Rangerwillx

what is this I don't even

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 14:00

#33

Maxamusx

@Kurapika

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 14:16

#34

Xylka-Mkii

@Maxamusx Wheres your

@Maxamusx
Wheres your tips.

Back on to the topic now, I would rather not speak my truthful mind on beggars due to it will get me banned two times over.

That's all I can say aloud.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 17:05

#35

Tengu

bumpin' dis thread again?

bumpin' dis thread again? yea.

what is it, 500CE and 1000cr and you can be a guildmaster, Justin. Heck, I'm a guildmaster myself; of my own alts. It's much cheaper than the other frivolities this game has to offer, and you may actually be able to ask for tithes from your players.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 18:26

#36

Justinbox

what more can I say..

@Nodo - your post made me laugh...allow me to explain. It's not a rant, but because I choose to DISREGARD certain comments (not relating to what MY UGLY TRUTH points) you deem this thread as so. I DO CARE about EVERYONE'S COMMENT!!!! I'm probably the biggest carerer (if such is a word) in the world of SK.
Some people mentions in this thread that SOME (not all questions) are irrelevant. I personally took a look of 5 guilds ( 3 I consider being highly active and top guilds) and their recruitment application form was simple, without asking personal information like age. I can go through more threads and post other unnecessary questions ;not including the pun ones. If I were recruiting a better question to ask is "Are you a mature, well-natured player?". And even then someone can lie, and say "OMG YES I AM!!!!, and i LOVE TAKING CARE OF KITTENS!!!". Then several days into the guild you realize this person isn't as they claim to be.

The 2 ugly truths I mentioned for guilds are:
1 - Most advertise the same way, so they don't all stand out or make people want to join. Knights only apply for certain guilds because of fun/friends or the prestige. If i copied recruitment/advertisement threads and removed all the guilds names and put them together in one big thread, you'll see there isn't much of a difference. Only a handful bring humor and fun (as you can see straight out of the box) , and others things like how to make money/ marketing skills ,say.

2- Some guilds have a few silly questions , and/or personal information requests (which IFAIK is against the game's policy).

@Xylka - LOL. So much animosity to the beggars. :/

Now I've gotten feedback on/off the forums that several players read this , but not all are keen to post. Some came to defend their friends, silently ; others seem Justinbox as ignorant and "no matter what you tell him, it's gonna be his point" aura fills the air, so why bother!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't mean to put anyone in a HOT SEAT, just to point out MY UGLY TRUTHS about this game. Anyone can either agree/disagree, but chances are I'll be stating facts. C'est la vie.
e.g If a yellow bulb is on, and I say this bulb is yellow. Should you be wearing sunglasses or looking through a blue glass, you'd disagree and say otherwise. Irregardless of what you say the bulb is yellow. And that's that.

Hopefully you have all been enlightened, and can let go the anger now :D

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 20:49

#37

Tantarian

Pfft

>UNLESS of course they do nothing and sit and stare at the clockworks , discussing whether to grow a cool moustache like an impostocube.
I actually do this with my guild and feel insulted by your insinuations.

Thu, 12/15/2011 - 20:59

#38

Kilbride

Help for Justinbox!

"Irregardless of what you say the bulb"...

irregardless |ˌiriˈgärdlis|

adjective& adverb informal
regardless.

ORIGIN early 20th cent.: probably a blend of irrespective and regardless.

usage: Irregardless is widely heard, perhaps arising under the influence of such perfectly correct forms as irrespective, but should be avoided by careful users of English. Use regardless to mean ‘without regard or consideration for’ or ‘nevertheless’.

Fri, 12/16/2011 - 19:38

#39

Justinbox

justin non the wiser

@Kil - I laughed at my own folly. Just last week at the office a co-worker said "irregardless" and several of us corrected them, yet here I am proving I'm non the wiser. Thank you for the correction

@Tant - *humbly apologizes* However, I am curious if the female knights ponder such as well!

I should have a new discussion up in maybe 12hrs. Just tired to type.The topic will be CHANGES!

Sun, 12/18/2011 - 08:03

#40

Justinbox

Changes

Change always take places, whether we LIKE IT or NOT! This is the Truth! It's ugly for those who don't like it.

Clockworks depth-themes change - This like some changes can be controlled.
Beta testing feedback had brought about many changes in the SK world within recent times. Some changes are good others knights call annoying.
Another truth is that feedback for the most part is what drives/causes changes.
So let's talk about some of the changes , and what members either yelp/ or praise.

Event Hub - tis a new change in the interface. IMO it's more like a facebook "status update" feed. Since many people are on facebook for social activity, this seems to be the SK facebook feed (only a wall is missing) , but are we playing a MMORPG or making SK into a SOCIAL game? I've heard guildies and friends talking about they don't know why they have too see what other people are doing, since they can just click the social button/icon and see whose doing what. Probably a possible hiding of the event hub might please them. I am neutral to it ; doesn't bother me.

Price of CE - I will never forget when I started playing and the price of CE was barely over 5K for a 100set. I remember it being 4700 cr for a while. I've heard the days of CE being slightly over 3K for the same 100 set. Because of the growing numbers of players seeking interest in this "once" addictive MMORPG; crafting/doing depths and such, has caused a greater demand of energy to now which the cost of energy is over 7k. Several players , mainly new or a few months old; shriek their cries for a lower cost of energy . Before when they wouldn't dare spend 65cr for one CE, will gladly path with such an offer now.. is it that times are hard? Energy prices will always change, and the ugly truth for knights is, either buy it with crowns or if you love the game support the developers and buy an energy pack. For what it's worth the yelping will stop :)

Heart Pendant/Trinkets - Ah yes the super duper love puppy. Just as rare as my good friend mr. impostocube and quite eccentric. For a time everyone was trying to get into rooms with the love puppy just to hope they drop a heart pendant ! I've recalled people going solo in danger rooms or in depths where the puppy spawned, greedily expecting ;if such a trinket drop; it would be all theirs... MWHAHAH! Even several elite players paid HANDSOMELY for mere 3* trinkets. Life for them was bliss, then "BOOM" they were made available via Sullivan for crafting. Krogmo coins are what's needed now to craft your own heart pendant, which can only be obtained via the extra events BOMB BLAST NETWORK or LOCKDOWN. This is Awesome for many players who love Lockdown/LD, and it promotes OOO's game modes. MANY of the elite players who struggled and dived down clockworks just to get love puppies in hope for such a pendant drop or paid well for theirs are now getting the ugly end of the stick - this is the ugly truth. It's abit unfair all that hard work, and now anyone can just craft/but it for a fraction of what was paid. Also some players don't indulge in either bast bomb/LD and don't really care about such a trivial item. Some members believe these heart pendants are still inferior compared to the other modules you can use in your trinket slot. I think personally, that heart pendants are really ONLY for use in LD , so don't gripe when you ATTEMPT to play LD and meet opponents with 2x as much health as you and it seems tough to beat them. They are either rich, or have lots of experience with LD and as such ,the game (as much as it might be an incentive to foster LD gameplay) many new/ inexperienced players will be twice as frustrated and shun to even bother to try. This is also an ugly truth.

There are several more changes I can add in, but this post is long enough.. feel free to express your points.

Sun, 12/18/2011 - 19:39

#41

Wolfkit

Love Puppy

I think that the sentimental value of a heart pendant dropped by a love puppy would be well worth the time spent finding a love puppy.

Sun, 12/18/2011 - 20:28

#42

Kalaina-Elderfall

Guilds: Guilds have the right

Guilds: Guilds have the right to recruit however they damn well please, based on whatever standards they find appropriate to their values. This world is full of people with poor values. If you don't like it, don't join their guilds. Guilds with good values exist and aren't rare. If you can write an application letter that genuinely communicates your interest to them, they're not going to screen you out because of some trivial thing like not wanting to tell them your age or not having t2 clearance yet. There's nothing ugly about this at all, because guilds provide a way for players to associate with people they can relate to. It's really quite the opposite, a very important system to have that extends the social value of the game immensely.

As far as recruitment goes, lack of recruiting skill on the part of any given guild is hardly an "ugly truth" so much as a disappointment. And anyone with a couple hundred CE can make a guild, so it's not like any given guild has the implicit approval of the Spiral Knights community. It's like looking at the most ignorant person in a country and then railing on the country for it.

Don't know what you hope to accomplish with this thread other than randomly saying what's on your mind, but most people want the price of CE to be low. Some people are more vocal about it than others, particularly those who play a lot and are F2P. The game's optional F2P aspect is one of the reasons some of us P2P people buy CE in the first place. We all have the right to be dissatisfied with it, and some people are going to whine about it very loudly. Complaining about whiners has never, in the history of anything, ever accomplished anything or been at all worth doing. Just ignore them and move on.

And a lot of people lost a lot of money with the heart pendants thing. OOO felt it was a good idea. Ask them. And if you expect to have a fair shot at winning in Lockdown with absolutely no Lockdown experience under your belt, then you're pretty overconfident, plain and simple. I don't think there's anything particularly ugly about the way things work. It is how it is, and Lockdown is hardly something you have to play; if PvP is your thing and you really enjoy Lockdown, then you're gonna get heart pendants. They're not cheap, but they aren't exactly super expensive either. I don't think anyone's really being hurt by getting schooled when they try to play Lockdown without heart pendants.

In short, this entire thread is extremely misguided.

Sun, 12/18/2011 - 21:36

#43

Xylka-Mkii

"Price of CE"If Another

"Price of CE"

If Another whining thread about how its too high and needs to be lower I swear ill buy the 20k pack and force the price above 8k myself.

Other than that I just enjoy reading this. /clap

Time to grind LD (and yes the Heart trinkets got me interested again. I do about 2 hours of matches a say now :D.)
Plus I dont even need the tokens lol. Guess Ill craft a Penta and a 5* ASI Swords then just sell some Mod cals. or w.e

How about a rant on expiration dates on Costumes? No seriously I'd like to see all you people's opinions on it.

EDIT: "And if you expect to have a fair shot at winning in Lockdown with absolutely no Lockdown experience under your belt, then you're pretty overconfident, plain and simple"

I laugh when I have T2 people in T3 Lockdown. good luck getting your Penta-Heart's guys, I mean you (for the most part) already beg at [insert star rank here] anyway.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 06:01

#44

Justinbox

hibernation is over...time for posts!

hello all, please know in my post about "the price of ce" - I was not complaining about energy prices, I was just mentioning how many knights make it a problem yelping about prices. Which was my ugly truth.

@Wolfkit - That is agreed, nothing much else but sentimental appreciation.

@Kalaina - "Guilds have the right to recruit however they damn well please" Really, is that the best response? No, REALLY??? Then perhaps if everyone responded like such, the place would be in chaos.
e.g - why do people beg for cr? - Because they have the right to do as they dam*well please.
e.g2- If in a top guild someone kicked several veteran players (at least 2months of service) , and a question is asked. "why?". The officer/gm can respond "it's my guild and I can dam* well do as I please"?
Because some GM's think they can ask certain questions in application forms , (including personal information which afaik is against the rules) - it still doesn't disprove the fact that they are irrelevant, and that's my truth. I've explained this before.
I do agree on HOW GUILD's want to recruit is entirely up to them, and I never once stated having an application form was ridiculous. It does help.

In short, this entire thread is extremely misguided.
Misguided or misinterpreted? English is a funny language . If I were to have called this thread "free crowns giveaway" ,say then I would agree 100% that you are right. I'm discussing several things in the SK world, some of my truths don't satisfy/agree with people (which I did mention) ; and again I revisit that yellow bulb disposition. Ref : #36 . The thread title is just a catch phrase, but I believe I haven't differed from my OP.

@Xylka - "How about a rant on expiration dates on Costumes? No seriously I'd like to see all you people's opinions on it."
You just hit the hammer on the nail, as I was gonna mention this in my last post, but didn't. The ugly truth about expiration dates on costume is that exist and several (could be many) knights dislike it. I can understand seasonal costumes being temporarily, which are cheap and inexpensive with tokens. I'd hate to see someone wearing an inappropriate costume at the wrong time - think* wearing white after labor day*. With the recent santy hats which I think are great, it's a bit uninviting to purchase different hats since they will all expire in a months time .Unlike the Halloween fest which still allowed several permanent helmet masks*, together with the temporary ones, I believe all the santy hats will expire, and thats a bummer.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 06:30

#45

Sir-Didymus

Hmmmm

One day I will get a girl helmet and put a moustache on it..........

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 07:40

#46

Kalaina-Elderfall

Yes, both of those things are

Yes, both of those things are perfectly fine. One reason why begging for cr is worse than guild recruitment is that it's unsolicited and annoys people who don't ask about it. For the most part, guilds are a private affair. Guilds can kick out veteran players if they wish. Maybe the players didn't get along with the officers and just stuck around because they had friends in the guild. But the guild will be crippling itself if they did.

And asking for personal information is not against the rules at all. I don't know where you got that idea. Here you go:

You may not:

11. collect or store personal data about another member without the express permission of such member.

12. reveal personal data about another member--including but not limited to personally identifiable information about the member, administrative role of the member within a game, and information about game characters associated with the member--without the express permission of such member.

Answering a question about personal information, in my book, is "express permission." Refusing guild entry to someone because they don't wish to disclose said information is somewhat less clear cut, but I think it still flies because it's just a guild. You'd be hard-pressed to find a guild that denies someone for that reason, though.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 13:18

#47

Shuichi

Hmm...

*Cue Inhale...1, 2, 3, 4....and exhale =D*

(I'd read all the other comments before, but it's hurtting my eyes, I dont really want to read a book, so Im just gonna post my own personal insight on guilds and probably add to these books... anyway this is what happens in my guild... =D)

So...In my mind, a guild is helpful by helping other members especially new players the ways of the game. I mean everyone starts somewhere. My first time of playing the game I didn't understand that Energy was crutial to the game, and when I died, I'd energy revive. That was until a few hours later I found my first friend and he told me NOT to energy revive. It was a very helpful tip, which I now tell our new recruits who are new to the game.

Also another usefulness of a guild. You get to meet new friends of different tiers who are willing to help you earn a few extra crowns, weither it be Jelly King runs or Firestorm Citadel. (though me personally I would very like my Guildmates to ask one another for help instead of me, I'm a very busy Knight and if I'm not in the Clockworks, it only means I'm in the middle of a very important Bid War. (to those knights who see me lounging around Haven.))

Another thing about guilds. We can help you look for recipies. In my guild I never loan out crowns or energy since crowns. Energy, armor, weapons, and materials are easy to obtain in the game. But if you're in need of a recipie, and if I come upon that recipie you're looking for, I will gladly purchase it for you, but in return you must reinburse me ;).

So there are many usefulnesses of a guild. Especially with the Higher Leveled players teaching those new recruits on how to play properly.

Tue, 12/20/2011 - 13:45

#48

Strangepie

too long didn't read

Wed, 12/21/2011 - 20:08

#49

Justinbox

people need to spread the holiday cheer!

the holidays are almost upon us, so i'll have some cheers for everyone!

@Shuichi - your guild and yourself from your post is what I would hope most guilds do, even the exclusive guilds shouldn't pass up the opportunity to help recruits.

@strange- you are strange...if you didn't read then you shouldn't have posted .Since you already posted, then you should take a read no?

@Kalaina - Kal, mind if I call you such? Your last post was serious/angry and unambiguous. I recommend a frostbite lockdown match to cool off ;)
Yes, both of those things are perfectly fine. One reason why begging for cr is worse than guild recruitment is that it's unsolicited and annoys people who don't ask about it. For the most part, guilds are a private affair. Guilds can kick out veteran players if they wish. Maybe the players didn't get along with the officers and just stuck around because they had friends in the guild. But the guild will be crippling itself if they did.

You again misinterpreted my analogies - simply put you stated earlier, that guilds can recruit as they "dam* well please". And I said the game would be in chaos if everyone's reason for doing something was just as u stated. In other words the reason for begging/kicking is because knights can dam* well do as they please , which is inconsiderate and undesirable.

Misinterpreted? It's a rant thread with no clear focused point where you complain about things that either 1) everyone agrees are terrible (i.e. the amount of money people lost on heart trinkets, expiration dates on costumes), or 2) aren't worth complaining about because they boil down to human stupidity (guilds, CE price whining)
Look up dictionary for rant and discussion. If this were a rant thread, I'd never ask for comments/feedback. 2ndly your paragraph is the longest sentence I've read and I don't fully understand it. I will thank you for what you've said, and leave it as that.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would like to say that truth about the new "Explorer's Pack" is that it's BRILLIANT! A combination of energy/elevator pass (and u get a nifty stranger hat and more goodies to go), and its a great price!!!! Not that i'm promoting it, but I just had to mention some good holiday cheer truths!
The only ugly truth about the explorer pack is that it expires early January , and the fact that it can't be a gift item*. Imagine waking up Christmas Day, and logging on to SK only to receive an inbox message or such from a friend who got you this. It's almost as awesome as getting a prismatic wolver tail. What do you knights think?

Wed, 12/21/2011 - 21:03

#50

Kalaina-Elderfall

Not really sure why you ask

Not really sure why you ask for feedback if you don't read it, since the counterarguments to everything you just said are literally in my last post. It's fine to disagree, but generally in a discussion you have to actually develop what you're saying in pace with what everybody else is saying, rather than just repeating yourself over and over again ignoring the other people. I will, however, refrain from posting here any further, so you don't have to worry about me.

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THE UGLY TRUTH