I would like a lot of input from people who played in the February Preview
Even the November Preview before that one would be good
In my opinion, SK has gone downhill, and by downhill, I mean it kinda sucks now
The old Spiral Knights was more fun, the community size fit the size of the game perfectly, people talked to each other, partied together, trading was good
There were a few gates pre-made, like the Silent Metropolis, or Aurora Isles(November preview)
These pre-made maps had puzzles, each and everyone(I think)
These puzzles let you go farther in the game, or unlocked rooms with more prize boxes
Silver keys let you go into special rooms, these rooms either had treasure, or a room that spawned monsters tougher than the levels monsters, at the end of these rooms was usually something great and awesome
Sometimes you couldnt even get silver keys before you wanted one because they didnt pop up that much
Recipes didn't exist, merchants sold equipment only, merchants in dungeons sold the rare equipment which was fun to use
Then, energy came in for the February preview, it was alright, we got some for a survey, the preview had a few days left so it wasn't that much of a hassle
It ended, we all moved on and waited
I received the email saying SK was back, I created my account, logged in, and there was my tutorial
It was more than I expected, then I started play with weapons
"Wait, what happened to my bomb?"
That devastated me a little inside, starting out with that bomb was fun, then when I got a bomb
"Wait, you have to charge it to be able to use it now?"
Not only did they take it away from starting equipment but now you have to wait a while to use it, I know they did that to balance the damage, but it was still fun to plant bombs everywhere
Then I noticed, I can't play as long as I want to, this game requires me to buy energy
It have to wait a full day if Im not able to buy, while those who have the money, can go play as much as they want
I found a merchant in a dungeon, and no expensive rares, only recipes, which require yet more of my energy, so now Im stuck between making my equipment and waiting to play, or playing with horrible equipment and hoping I can make it
After a while I noticed that puzzles didnt play that much of a role in the game any more, its mainly a grind fest now searching for materials
Then it hit me, thats what they want us to do
The only thing that keeps people on the game is recipes, and searching for the materials they want, which will rarely pop up
This requires energy and thus, jackpot for the creators, you keep playing in hopes to find that uber rare material, and when you do, your energy is out from all those core runs
I know they need some way to get money for a game, its their job, but this just isn't it, there has to be some way for people to pay and get something in return that makes you want to pay, while those who don't or can't can still play the game
Its pushing me away from the game, which I loved until this preview
What are your thoughts on this game currently?
New SK vs Old SK
I'd like to touch on a couple of your points:
- The community size that you say you enjoyed was about 40 people. I'm not sure how that fit the size of the game perfectly.
- 95% of the levels from the previous PE's can be found within the game. Only a few weak levels were removed. Since last November we have probably tripled the number of levels in the game. Building new levels is a constant project.
- All equipment has also returned, with the exception being that we are not directly selling it to you for very cheap prices (something we did given the very short time frame of the November PE). Some of it must now be found as well.
- Bombs have indeed changed. Previously they were deemed broken as you were unstoppable while using them. However we have been constantly evaluating them since we began making changes. This is likely to continue.
- The exclusion of the silver doors this time around was due to player feedback. When a player finds a locked door, they expect to find a key. They didn't respond well to 'not this time!' so we opted for an energy door instead.
I am most interested in your point about puzzles. Could you describe puzzles from before that are no longer found in the game?
There are good changes and bad:
1. The previous preview event was nigh-unplayable with more than one player; I'd suffer from lag so bad that it crashed my client. Whoever improved the performance... THANK YOU! If you'd like to go further by making graphical effects more granular (as with the ability to turn off the endless dandruff feature of my icebreaker helm), that would work too. At the moment, though, my biggest performance problem is that the levels with the biggest fights also have the most extra graphical effects- as in arena level 3 with all those fancy flickering lanterns. This results in slowdowns at the worst possible time; that can be fixed with small changes to level design.
2. Bombs went from being a valuable part of gameplay to a heavily-nerfed also-ran. I'd love to see changes that made them more attractive, but until then, the lack of a starting bomb isn't a major loss. (just one less item to clutter my inventory)
3. On the diversity of items: a big step forward, as I'd expect. However, the spread isn't sufficient to create a clear high-end option. For example: I know of no shield that can absorb much past a single hit from a fired devilite near the core. That's... kind of useless. (perhaps shields could recharge faster as one nears the core? That would prevent an item from being overpowered near haven, without making it useless against tougher enemies)
4. I have to agree about the bosses- they were *fun*! Not only is reaching the core anti-climactic, but so is reaching just about every other level, too. An occasional challenge level thrown in at the middle would be a good step forward.
5. I miss being able to change armor midway through a run- it's even more important now that levels are randomly generated. Otherwise, why bother making the super-specialized armor that's only strong against one type of enemy?
6. Gate creation, if done right, is what the game was missing- an interesting new mechanic that differentiates it from completely generic hack-and-slash RPGs. I'd like to see more connections between levels or runs- for example, venturing down one gate could help you to gain the special weakness for the boss of another gate, or a key that opens up a side branch. But the basic idea of influencing what levels come out is a fun one. (Caveat: in the current system, no minerals = no levels = no chance to adventure for the next few days. I'd like to see a fallback mechanism, where no minerals = less exciting levels, instead. Fewer gates might help to focus deposits and players)
7. Energy management: Still needs fine-tuning (but you knew that!). As energy becomes more important, small problems with level balancing become more pronounced. Currently, getting mineral/heat rewards requires paying for 2 levels, not 1. As a result, a casual player who runs out of energy needs to wait 5 hrs (= 20 mist energy regeneration) before they can play ONE level... and I pity them if they spend that energy by accidentally joining a party at the start of a "treasure" vault. That's almost certainly a stiffer "casual play" penalty than is needed. Y!PP succeeds by allowing someone to pay for extras, and stay engaged at a low level otherwise (keeping them happy and hooked). So far, SK requires continuous investment, and imposes stiff wait times before a casual player can return.
For the community size
There wasn't that much to do, and there wasn't that many people
This made it fun, you'd go with people into the game and try to do something together
If there was more people, then thered be surplus of all the items, and itd get boring
With the time frame and the amount of people, you could get all the items barely before the preview ended
For the levels, I actually miss the 5% that was left out, if those could be updated to be balanced that would great, but just my opinion
The equipment may still be in the game, but to be able to get the good equipment, you need energy to make it or go find it/the materials needed for the recipe, and recipes also cost a lot later for the 4 star equips, it may still be in game, but its hard as hell to get
Bombs were indeed unstoppable in the last preview, I know thats why they were changed, if possible, you could make two types of bombs, one is charged, and one is laying 2-3 down without charging, theyd be significantly weaker, and youd have to stop to reset the bomb after the amount is set, that way thered be more than one type
And I see how people wouldn't want silver doors, you can't get everything in the level, but you want to
But giving the players everything they want can ruin the game, People probably just said that because they wanted more treasure
In the state the game is now, I think itd help a little, energy for some players is scarce, and when they want more treasure, sometimes they can't afford the energy
With keys in game, not everyone would be getting the excess treasure, all players would have equal chances to get the extra treasure, and energy could be saved for when its needed
And with the puzzles, I was referring to those hidden golden keys, like in the aurora isles levels, I know its still there, but finding those hidden things made the game fun, now the puzzles are more of
Go in a circle, destroy the walls with ghost cubes, and find the switch, its easy but boring, and not that creative in my opinion
Then there was the switches and gates in the what is now the Spiral Fortress I think? They were replaced with energy gates, I liked this because you had to figure out which switches open and closed which doors, to get the treasure you needed to activate the switches in a certain order
These Puzzles added something to the game that most games don't have, and puzzles like this aren't really a huge part of the game anymore, and when I find the new puzzles, Im kind of sick of them because it just prolongs the game to get to the, with no extra rewards
I think that puzzles could be optional, and solving the puzzles would give some extra treasure, not a lot of course
The puzzles are still in game, Im just saying there not as frequent or fun
The only things I really agree with here are the bombs (which should really be tweaked) and the general content behind energy doors.
I actually really liked the silver doors, but it was frustrating when a silver key simply didn't appear. Maybe make them essentially work like gold keys, where they spawn reliably, but you don't have to actually carry them above your head.
But that's not to say energy doors need to go away. They could remain, but the content behind them should be comparable to what's found in The Jelly Farm. Either that, or the items in the lucky boxes should actually be really good stuff. As it is, it doesn't feel worth it because there's usually nothing more than money, heat, and vials in the boxes.
Speaking of The Jelly Farm, are we going to see more stages like that one? To me, it feels like one of the more fleshed out stages.
I played during the last preview event. Came in late, I suppose; all I've ever known of Spiral Knights has included Mist and Crystal Energy. I can't even imagine the game with unlimited play (much as I would like to). I'll get back to energy, though.
Some things I saw during the last preview that I'd like to see brought back:
I really, really miss the silver keys. I loved those tough monster sections especially. These new Battle Arenas are a step in the right direction, but monster behavior is pretty obnoxious when it comes to gremlins. Takes a lot of the wind out of the experience when I feel like I'm being worked over (energy reference here).
Equipment slots built in. More on this below.
Charge attacks certainly seem more varied now, and I like that. Are they as useful? Not in the slightest. Before, Charge Attack was virtually the only thing I did - so yes, it was TOO good at the time. Now, however, I can almost never think of a reason to do it. Be nice to see something done about that.
Puzzles would definitely spice up the current gameplay. I can't complain that there isn't enough to see or do - the game isn't finished; that's to be expected. But right now, all the different floors represent to me are different coats of paint. Traverse level, smash enemies. That's it.
Now, on energy:
Energy doors? Okay, I can get behind that. Paying for them only to watch your team of three strangers ransack the place? No. This is bad. Just needs a little fine-tuning. I don't mind paying for this.
Energy per floor? Okay. I'm assuming this is where you're really making the big bucks, and I'm not going to fly off that handle at a company for trying to fund itself. Limiting the amount of time I can play for free is something I despise, but that's only because I don't have money to throw at it.
Energy revivals? Alright, that's on me, not you. I can choose to pay for an advantage, or I can suck it up and go home. This is perfect. Costs can be obnoxious, but that's what you get for running around without a team to raise you on hearts. All in all, excellent.
Energy for crafting? No. This is totally obnoxious. What I like about this game is what I can't get somewhere else; cooperative action gameplay. Easy to pick up and fun. The art and the music are nice, but that's not what keeps me coming back. If I wanted to grind out equipment mindlessly, I could get that practically ANYWHERE and in many cases for free. There's little enough to do after I'm out of energy anyway. Definitely preferred simply finding or buying the equipment directly from rare vendors. Now, I would pay CE for equipment variants, especially if I could choose which variant to add. But for the items themselves? There is no way for me to enjoy being hamstrung like that.
Energy for equipment slots? Good LORD, no. This is where I feel less like a valued customer and more like an idiot getting hustled at a carnival. After release, I will never, ever pay for these. They're not even permanent? Are you serious? Turn your profit, corporate dogs, but for the love of god we NEED THIS MONEY TO EAT. Ramen doesn't grow on trees!
It's not all bad, though. Some of the new stuff I like:
The gate creation thing. I don't even understand it and I wish it was more clearly explained to the average player but I think I see where you're going with it. The crown income is nice and I feel compelled to coordinate with other players to shape the world. Doubt it will ever really happen that way once the floodgates open to the masses, but it's a nice idea.
Guilds! Some fine-tuning is critical here, of course, but guilds and guild halls are two of my favorite things about online gaming. Definitely on the right track here.
Crafting itself is good. I like that it has been included; I just dislike how critical it is. Direct purchase isn't even really an option. Energy complaints yada yada.
Whatever my sentiments about gear grinding, I do enjoy leveling up my stuff and so I have to applaud the heat system. Step in the right direction, but it shouldn't be the whole show.
Costume slots are absolutely wonderful. You've got this perfect. Don't change a thing.
That's about it. More as it comes to mind.
I just got a great idea
Silver keys lead to treasure
Energy doors lead to separate paths that have more crown and material income, but its also a little tougher
This way, if you want more of a challenge, you can use your energy
Just a rough idea but if tweaked a little bit, it could possibly work
Edit
On talbain's energy rant(lol)
Crafting and equip slots
I completely agree
Itd be like making players buy shield slot upgrades to use one
Sure its not completely necessary, but when your surround by enemies everywhere, you need more than what you just have
and crafting, Im sure theres a way we can balance it by taking out energy, and doing something else, like an alchemy meter, it builds up stars in a certain amount of time, and the star rank of a weapon takes away stars from your alchemy meter(4 star items takes 4 stars thing)
Of course that could get annoying sometimes, just a really rough idea that I do not recommend, but just throwing an idea out of my head
[quote]The exclusion of the silver doors this time around was due to player feedback. When a player finds a locked door, they expect to find a key. They didn't respond well to 'not this time!' so we opted for an energy door instead.[/quote]
Sad.. I thought the silver doors were fun because you were never sure if you should buy a key or not. It was like gambling, and gambling is fun. I could see a problem with silver doors if they appear before a merchant that sells keys appears.. but that seems like something that if it was a problem could be fixed by a tweak rather than taking the entire system out.
Nick : The exclusion of the silver doors this time around was due to player feedback. When a player finds a locked door, they expect to find a key. They didn't respond well to 'not this time!' so we opted for an energy door instead.
I agree with this, I didn't personally care for the silver keys. It's not fun for people to run around wondering if they missed something because they can't open a door. I lost count of the number of times people made a negative comment because they couldn't open it or see what the difficult zone beyond it was like. The same content is there behind those gates as there was behind the silver key gates. The difference is I can now always get in if I want. I'd actually liked to see these energy gates used more to grant access to special difficult areas. I absolutely love the ones that allow me to decide if we're going to explore a more difficult area.
I only wish a little rebalancing could be done to make sure that the 3 energy is worth it. It doesn't always need to be worth it, but it almost never is (unless it's granting me access to face a more difficult zone). Perhaps there can be a higher level of treasure box (fairly rare). This would have a higher % chance of getting something better by removing the possibility that the box contains something at the bottom tier or consumables. There could then be one of these boxes mixed in with the others behind that gate.
I don't agree with everything.
Equipment was just incredibly easy to gain in the last preview.
I like that it takes people more than one dungeon to get nice equipment.
Progression is still far too quick, though.
While I don't think it's fair that they sell recipes that are easy to obtain, but put items in them so rare that it appears nobody has acquired them yet.
It seems like a poorly planned way to give the illusion of having undiscovered content.
Stuff is just too rare and there's not enough variety in low-level equipment to justify the rarity at this stage in development.
I mean, I've killed 5 Mewkats now and I haven't got a single hat drop from them.
Then, with the randomized levels, it really does feel like a grind.
Playing through 3 or 4 levels in a row that all look the same and contain the same monsters just melts your brains.
It's still in development so I'm not judging the game, but something needs to change here.
Something needs to soften the blow that this content wall provides when you smash into it.
The Arenas were pretty good for a while, maybe a place where players can just spawn monsters and play around with them.
It's not going to have an averse effect on release and it will make filling up the wiki with content so much easier if particular monsters weren't so difficult to find.
I have mixed feelings. Some things are certainly an improvement, while other are not.
Current problems:
- Lack of variety in enemies/areas/equip, but this isn't really a problem last preview didn't have (what happened to the things in the promotional video though? Vogs, maps, bomb corridors)
- Lack of puzzles
- Progress is too quick, but this isn't really a problem last preview didn't have
- Energy system is harsh on free/new players
- Bombs are pretty useless atm
- Lack of life in towns. Before everyone was in Haven and even when you didn't have energy you could just chat. Now I hardly ever see much people, except on some rare occasions when I wonder what's going on.
How about just make it so doors can be opened up with a key or energy. Like when you right click it a notifcation pops up asking if you want to use a silver key or use energy. Getting silver keys could be beneficial because you might need that energy. And allowing to use energy means that people don't go "oh noes a treasure chest I can't get my life is over".
I like it how it is now, we don't need silver keys.
Responding to:
(Caveat: in the current system, no minerals = no levels = no chance to adventure for the next few days. I'd like to see a fallback mechanism, where no minerals = less exciting levels, instead.)
There is a fallback mechanism. It is called the "Firefly" gate. it is in the center of Haven.
The first floor is clockwork tunnels, so you can get minerals. Two of the levels there apparently will not spawn in the arcade.
Including the danger rooms (the higher risk, higher reward rooms) into the current random dungeons would probably not be too difficult. It seems like everyone liked them so I'll talk to Jordan on Monday about it.
I like kojiden's idea
Have silver keys drop in dungeons too, and you can choose between energy or silver keys
Or silver keys are used when you have them, and when you dont you just use energy
And yes Nick, EVERYBODY, loves danger rooms
Its like finding $20 in your pocket, and your like
OMGOMGOMG, no way!
If you know what Im talking about
:D
I was so disappointed when I went to the Jelly Farm and there was no danger room.
Nick: Including the danger rooms (the higher risk, higher reward rooms) into the current random dungeons would probably not be too difficult. It seems like everyone liked them so I'll talk to Jordan on Monday about it.
Ooo shiny! I absolutely loved those challenges.
Definitely, The Jelly Farm was one of the funnest levels before
and now its just boring, and its in the firefly gate only(I think)
I miss all the old levels
Danger room?
(/em thinks of the Xmen always getting into problems ...)
I think gate creation needs to be reigned in a bit. The pre-arranged gates had a nice progression - hack, hack, boss, treasure! - that kept things changing and un-grindy. All random levels all the time* feels monotonous and therefore grindy. *(I really can't believe that a live server with an active population of 5,000 people could coordinate mineral contribution without serious griefing.) The other downside of the current setup is that the world feels a lot smaller when you hit Treasure Vault 4 floors in a row. There could be thousands of levels, and we'd never know what we were missing as things stand. How can we try to coordinate minerals to make a floor that we don't know exists?
To address the first issue, I'd like to see OOO define the progression of levels through a gate, with players swaying the direction and flavor that that progression takes. The first floor will be small fights. The second floor will add in puzzle elements that make you think before spamming the attack button (think of the rooms with the golden key and the spookats, where breaking all the crystals at once means a kat pile on you). Then there's an epic fight that could be one giant foe or a pack of smaller foes. Then there's prizes with traps thrown in. (Or whatever progression works). Another way to approach this would be to put more pre-defined gates in the Arcade, and allow guilds to put a mineral gate inside their guild hall. This provides a more balanced experience for newbies while allowing veterans to fine-tune their play.
I'm not sure what is the best way to cue players into the vast variety of unseeable floors. Perhaps floor recipes could drop that would explain what minerals could be used in the creation of which floor. Perhaps beating a basic level in a certain variety gives you a hint about how to make a more difficult level along those same lines. Perhaps there is a map of the whole world that allows players to see floors that aren't available in the arcade. Perhaps each player has a passport showing all the floors they have visited with blank pages for the floors they haven't seen. Perhaps there are NPCs who post bounties for the creation of specific floors. Perhaps the crystal drops are rigged to push players toward the creation of under-viewed floors. Perhaps there is a compound that will generate a random floor.
Tonight I'm going to try to confirm several suspicions I have about gate construction (two gates opening up, lots of data points).
If I'm right, then I'll have some good suggestions to address those issues.
(... and if I'm wrong I'm giving up on figuring this out.)
Well, i'm new, but, actually, i just wondered...silver keys...it was really that awesome? Well, actually, what i do is not so diferent from what i seen that you've done in the past (i think): I'm walking through the floor, and see an energy door. 2 things can happen: 1- (most usual): WTF?, i will not spend 3 energy here, it's costing me 27k crowns to be able to get what, 200 crowns, at the most? (and i know that in deeper floors it isn't so diferent).
2-" O well, i wil be sleeping soone, so, whatever, let's get those 200 crowns -.-".
As i saw here, silver keys where not so diferent...or you're lucky to get a vendor (or drop, dunno), or you would not get the extra content...no harm done.
-About puzzles...yeah, i haven't got anything chalenging till now...nothing that made me stop and look to the room to see what i need to do. Just enter, hit/find the switch, kill the monsters, procced to the next room.
-About the crafting system: I'm not against a crafting system, i think it's great, but if you use it mainly to do variants of weapons, or to make the best weapons in the game. But, there's a single problem here: energy cost! c'mom, i want to play now with my weapon, and i don't want to make a weapon so i can only test it in the other day!
-energy system (yes, i'm one more of those that are tottally disliking it the way it is): I'm a free player ever. Why? I don't pay for a game, unless it's epic, and i can take much fun from it. The problem here is: this game, for me, is epic...BUT I CAN"T BUY!..mainly because where i live...so, for me, a pure free player (for now, waiting for them to put new ways to pay), it's really anoying...i do one dungeon...and them, when i'm warmed up, ready to do a harder one...i see that i will not be able to even get to the second floor...and depression strickes me...c'mom, you're almost saying that you need to pay monthly to play this beta...
-Danger rooms (as said by nick): Doitdoitdoitdoit pleaaaaassseeeee *-*...but not behind energy walls (alright, some could spawm behind energy walls, but make sure that energy walls always will have them, and make so some of these could've open via a hard puzzle (i know you can do it).
I think Danger Room gates should have that skull and crossbones that appears over your health when you die as the lock.
And when you activate it, it should give you a warning saying that if you enter there you can't leave until the monsters inside have been defeated.
I think the party button inside should also have a danger symbol on it or something, just for effect.
Free players can do everything in this game.
As far as I can tell, two runs is about a typical "play session". Two runs on the bottom third is worth about 20K. One run is worth 10K.
One run:
At a cost of 150, that's your starting 100 plus half of a purchase. 7K for a purchase means you spend about 3,500 to run for 10K income.
Two runs:
At a cost of 300, that's two purchases. Or 14K to purchase 20K of income.
That's a very well balanced, working system.
Yea, that was why I was asking about crowns for a run and energy cost for a run.
Free players may have to work up to the point of going below emberlight, but once they do they have no shortage of energy with the current balance.
Free players may be able to do everything
But the time it will take them to be able to get that far into the game
And the other options of energy like equipment slots and crafting will also take energy
This is why Im highly against equip and crafting for energy
While paying players get to experience full weapon slots, and the trinkets, and craft when they want to
Free players need to grind non stop to be able to get enough crowns and energy, and even when they do, they have to keep grinding once they get there
Fundamentally, the best way to solve that is to give high-end players something that costs large numbers of crowns but no energy.
Then, the high-end players have to either grind, or sell energy to get this.
This -- the need for crowns -- will serve to encourage people to sell energy, keeping the exchange down.
===
The basic premise for games like this is 90-9-1. 90% of the players will be free. 9% will pay about their own way. And 1% will pay much more than their own way.
To keep the 90% happy, that 1% needs to have goals.
YPP has this (blockades, etc). B!H did not (at least not that I ever saw.)
As i saw till now, the crystal energy being sold at the exangee was worth 7k EACH...so, unless a energy crystal equals 50 energy, i don't see how you could profit from it...i'm not sure, though, and gonna see it again soon.
1 x 100, so that's 100 energy for 7k.
you know...never noticed that smallish (small hellish) 100x number at the bottom...well, now i have some motivation to keep playing....but this don't soften some things up yet >_< (well, at least i know now that, if i do a Spur via recipe, i will be paying 3900 plus material cost...what surelly will not add to nothing, and will be a great loss, seeing that my recipe don't give any bonus compared to the one bought for 3750, at least for now, don't know till it level up. There should be a way to se what every weapon will get at higher levels.
Cientao, logging off, happy to know that the energy exchange system is not so broke as he tought it was.
now with the economy in a deep spiraling fall
I think we also need new uses for crowns
In the old previews EVERYTHING was bought with crowns, no matter how cheap
Since crowns have no use in the game anymore
Prices have skyrocketed for the energy market
This preview should be for us to experiment with the game
But thats impossible if you can't get enough energy
This is why I would like a material exchange npc
Trade in a bunch of your crappy materials for like 10% of the next star material and give crowns too as an extra fee
(10 fine fabrics becomes 1 miracloth)
Crafting would become easier
Thered be less useless materials
And more of the needed ones
And someone said shards could be turned into minerals
That actually fits with the lore so it'd work too
Just a thought
Trade in a bunch of your crappy materials for like 10% of the next star material and give crowns too as an extra fee
(10 fine fabrics becomes 1 miracloth)
I like the idea of being able to upgrade your materials. However, I'd rather have this type of crafting require energy to keep it consistent with all crafting. It becomes confusing if you have different requirements for a similar activity.
I agree (as I've mentioned elsewhere) that there need to be more crown sinks, however they shouldn't replace or confuse energy sinks. I'm betting there are several other ways to create crown sinks that would balance out the economy.
I agree, that if it involves running the alchemizer machines, it should cost energy.
Good crown sinks? (from someone that has been to emberlight once, and the core never?)
I agree, that if it involves running the alchemizer machines, it should cost energy.
Good crown sinks? (from someone that has been to emberlight once, and the core never?)
I was thinking of more an NPC that offers to trade
Not really crafting, "This is why I would like a material exchange npc"
as I said before
It would give crowns value in the game as well
We are not trying here to make a crown sink? if we put energy req to do so, it will actually turno out to be more as energy sinks again (even if you set the crown price too high, so, you would actually segin to do a crown/energy sink). Upgrading materials, or exanging, whatever, should be done only with money, and actually i think that a 5% rate is better than a 10%, to prevent a mass off 5 star itens. Also, some 5 star itens don't seen to have a downgraded version, so it should require more than one kind of material (miracloths, for example, could require moonshards, and fine cloths, for example).
Also, putting NPCs at terminals that comes with 4 random itens to sell, of any iten, including powerups, in a limit of 1 of each iten, cold be done to make a money sink too. There could be recipes, rare recipes, powerups of any level, materials of any amount of stars, and even equips or trinkets, and heat, if possible, but in an bigger amount, depending on the deepht.
... err, can you try to clarify that? Please?
Actually, let's put this in topics:
-Some itens don't have downgraded versions of itself (never saw a broken sword module, for example). But we would not tneed to have, just use some scrap metals, bronze bolts, and some other things, in a material NPC, to transform it into a sword module.
-Now, for the part i think you really didn't understood: When you're raiding a gate, there's a chance to appear a seller midway the dungeon. Well, what i sugest is that, instead of putting only recipe sellers, we put a random seller, like a walking seller. He had the need to raid a dungeon too to get there, after all, so he could have accumulated some materials, vials, and lesser equipment. So, when you enter a dungeon, with one of those sellers, 4 random itens would be selected, varying from materials, vials, equipment, recipes, and even heat, so you can go there and buy it from him, for a NPC price. Of course, he would have a limited amount of each iten, and a rare chance to get 1 rare iten to sell for you. The itens would be selected for every individual palyer, so, if you enter in group, and can't get that rare iten that you need to craft your armor, the others might get it, and sell to you. It would be more of an incentive to open those energy gates, that have a merchant at the other side, because, every time i did so, too see the itens he was selling, i found thhe same recipes that you can buy via the terminal NPC. Also, these merchants could save lifes, if you have low health, and they happen to have some health vials to sell. Some people would be willing to pay some crowns to have these itens (with rare chances to have 1 vitapod to sell too, btw, but only normal ones).
That's it, hpe i made myself clearer now.
The first one, Im talking about items that actually have items before them
I dont think a 5% rate would work
thatd be like 20 items for 1
Id rather have like 20 fine fabrics than 1 miracloth, I could trade less than 20 for a miracloth possibly
10% is the best option right now for our size of the community and the community grows, the rate lowers
And I dont mean you're creating items
I meant exchanging
The NPC will ask you to give him X materials of X star rank to get 10% of X material of X+1 star rank
do you get it now?
10 3-star materials, traded to get, 1 4-star material
by the time you get to 5-star materials you might be able to make 1
this will get rid of the useless materials that no one needs
And give them what they actually do need
Only some items would work
and like you said, there could be some items with no materials before them
Where you just hand in a bunch of random materials to get a better one
And with the npc, I just dont see that happening
There could be an npc with all vials
some with all recipes
some with all hearts
I just don't really see it happening
I could see a vendor that can sells everything, but you can only choose from one category
So say you get to a vendor and you see
Equipment - Vials - Recipes - Materials
You only get to choose one
and each time it would be different
Vials includes health capsules btw
I think that would work better
I'm actually seeing in the future. Well, trading and creating would not be so diferent, in my opinion, only if you're a lore maniac (i love lores, but just don't want to make all my actions based on lore itself). Ad the random vendor, with 4 itens, was just a rough estimative. It could be more itens, even 8. What i'm telling is: limited resources, and it would be like a gamble. You would never know wich itens he have to sell before going to him and asking, and it could be anything, to give that gambling felling, that makes people spend more. Actually, something that could be done, is make these npcs like the child at diablo 1, the one passing the river: it charge 500 gold coin for only displaying the merchandise. So, here, it could be something like 50 crowns, going up as the depth goes up, only to see what he have to sell. I don't doubt that most people would pay to see, even the last 3 merchs that they found didn't had nothing (again, sorry for my english).
PS: they implemented the "begin with at least 3 health" feature ^^.
This is a great topic. We would also be really interested in hearing what people who played the other preview events think of the changes.