Hi guys. This question's probably been asked a number of times before, but what's a good starter gun? I've seen people recommend all sorts, and the consensus seems to be that the Alchemer series are pretty decent. I have a Shadowtech Alchemer myself, but the slow fire rate and the fact that I sometimes need other damage types leads me to look for other strong starting guns. I have my eyes set on the Autogun because of its high fire rate, but hear that normal damage isn't recommended for guns.
Beginner Gun
Fri, 12/23/2011 - 04:29
Fri, 12/23/2011 - 06:37
#2
Well…
There's a reason most players become swordsmen. There are NO truly good starter guns, while the Flourish and Calibur work pretty well at 2* - swords start out as comfortable and easy to use, while guns only shine when they reach 3 stars or above.
Notes:
Autogun is only good once you reach its 3*, preferably the Blitz Needle path. Its charge attack can destroy fiends and beasts if you know how to aim it and keep your distance.
Alchemers aren't all that great until you get them to 4*. The only ones I recommend are the Firotech and Shadowtech lines - Firotech for the status and charge attack, Shadowtech because it's simply a reliable shadow gun in most situations (you'll be using shadow damage against slimes, so you should definitely pick it up).
Blaster sucks, avoid it.
Antigua is decent, but it's a boss token weapon. I wouldn't recommend this gun for beginners, because heating up the 3* version is a pain in the butt - it has extremely low damage per shot. However, the 4* Silversix is excellent against undead, especially zombies.
Pulsar and Catalyzer are excellent guns in their own right, but they're boss token weapons as well.
Magnus is a great piercing gun, but it's essentially a miniature sniper rifle, bulky and unwieldy. You might not want to get in close range with this thing, because it has a slow fire rate and forces you to stop moving for a second when you fire it.
Fri, 12/23/2011 - 07:24
#3
agree with Fradow
Genomax, Fradow is giving you very good advice. To make it more explicit, for a sidearm gun he's recommending an elemental gun: Nova Driver, Storm Driver, Magma Driver, Hail Driver, or Polaris. (Look these up on the wiki, pick the one you want, and then obtain its 2- or 3-star version.) On the other hand, if you want to become a serious gunner, then you want an elemental gun, a piercing gun, and a shadow gun.
Fri, 12/23/2011 - 08:52
#4
I'm going to disagree with
I'm going to disagree with Metagenic on several points :
- advising Autogun to a beginner. I know well this gun, and it's the best for FSC etc .... But it's simply too hard to use effectively to recommend to a beginner. Most gunners agree on starting with Magnus as a piercing gun, for a dedicated gunner. And when comparing the piercing guns, actually Magnus is the one slowing you down the least.
- recommending firotech over the other alchemers. Prismatech should do about the same damage (perhaps a little less, there was some calculation on the forum a while ago), without the need to switch target for maximal dps nor the problem of fire-themed stratas. I agree Shadowtech is a good gun, but that's if you are a dedicated gunner, else there is no reason to carry a shadow gun over an elemental gun.
- Blaster doesn't suck. It is a niche weapon for sure, but it has some niches, and i definitely saw people using it effectively. Contrary to Pulsar line, the knockback is consistent, not harmful to teamates and useful. The best use-case of it i can think about is this guy who is a bomber and need a gun (and only one) to take care of some things. Swords were not an option for him because he couldn't get them to work for him. I also saw someone doing FSC with only Blaster and Needle, and she was clearly not being carried.
- in the current state, I wouldn't called Antigua line "decent". Split damage really ruins it. Anyway, as you said it's a boss token, and it should be changed soon.
- I wouldn't call Pulsar and Catalyzer "excellents". The first can be harmful to teamates because of expanded shots (but as long as you don't use it as a main gun but more as a side-arm against mainly turrets, it's fine. It's indeed excellent in this role). As for Catalyzer, it suffers from its slow bullets, making him very hard to use in a party full of swordsmen pushing mobs everywhere (and generally not in front of your shots), and from the charge, which is hard to use.
Now, i am certainly fast to critizice almost every guns, but keep in mind all guns cited in this thread have their use (I know it because, save alchemers, which i don't like for personal reasons, I own all of them, and i certainly agree alchemers are good). It's down to a matter of preference.
Fri, 12/23/2011 - 10:07
#5
Cryotech alchemer for a beginner
For a true beginner, the gun to start out with is the cryotech alchemer. Ocassionally freezing enemies will improve survival (retrodes and puppies can't aim while frozen, which is a huge help) while you learn the ropes and, as Fradow did an excellent job explaining, elemental guns are the most useful.
Eventually, as you get better at the game, you may want to also have another elemental gun (my favorites are the Firotech line and the Kilowatt Pulsar line), but in the beginning, cryotech is definitely the most helpful. Remember - DPS is never the most important aspect of a weapon. Damage dealt versus damage received is the more important consideration. Something that kills slowly but safely is generally better than something that kills quickly but also kills you.
Fri, 12/23/2011 - 10:30
#6
somewhat disagree
I somewhat disagree with Icee on Hail Driver (and its precursors). The regular shots unfreeze as often as they freeze. The only success I've had with the weapon is to give up on regular attacks and just charge it. Now, a really skilled gunner can probably do better than me, but a beginner is not a really skilled gunner. So I recommend Storm Driver or Polaris over Hail Driver.
Also, while I echo Icee's point that DPS is not the only aspect to consider in choosing a weapon, I think that he has overstated his point. DPS is often one of the most important aspects. A dead monster is even easier to evade than a frozen or shocked monster. This is how sworders deal with wolvers, for example; they simply kill them (with a little dodging of the AI).
Fri, 12/23/2011 - 11:42
#7
Freeze is safest.
The problems with shock, especially from a beginner's prospective, are that:
a) It can spread from enemies to you, which can be dangerous in crowded places like arenas.
b) The spasms are somewhat unpredictable in their timing; sometimes the enemy will end up disabled when you need it to, and sometimes it won't.
With the cryotech line of guns, real freeze may be less frequent than shock from the voltech line (because the second shot can break the freeze applied by the first), but it's safer. Other than refreezing ice cubes, there is no downside to freeze and there is the plus of being able to extinguish oilers (although a freezing vaporizer is more efficient for that). Once it takes, it's completely reliable; the enemy won't be able to move again until it breaks. Admittedly, as I've gotten better at the game my cryotech (now a Hail Driver) has seen a lot less use as I've instead reached for my Firo driver and Polaris, but in the beginning, I was much more successful with the cryotech than I would have been with either of my current favorite elemental guns.
Fri, 12/23/2011 - 11:54
#8
I agree with that
I agree with your critique of shock as a status --- particularly the idea that it can make monsters less predictable and hence harder. No status effect is perfect.
Fri, 12/23/2011 - 12:23
#9
Starter Gun
Well I would have to go with the Blaster line for best starter gun. When I first started out I went through many 2* & 3* guns (Blaster, Firotech Alchemer, Magnus, Autogun). I mostly soloed and I got annoyed being stuck in situations where I needed to kite to survive and I had an Elemental gun versus Beasts or Gremlins (who are resistant to Elemental). Magnus was worse (for a 1 sword + 1 gun loadout), because it was useless verses turrets (resistant to Piercing and the #1 gun target of swordsmen). I landed on the Blaster line because it has a 3 shot magazine, you can walk while firing it, its rate of fire is quick, its projectiles have a good velocity, and it will work vs anything. That said I mostly carry my Polaris now, but I only really like it for FSC. The Polaris is not the best choice for swordsmen, because it can scatter mobs and the shock status on those enemies being flung about can be transfered to yourself or teammates (as previously stated). The Polaris is a powerful tool to be used sparingly when you are parting with swordsmen. For general clockwork work I will replace it with a Nova Driver one of these days. I still use my Valiance for Beast or Gremlin arenas, but also plan on replacing that function with an Umbra Driver (Beast & Gremlin are weak to Shadow). The Val is a good upgrade over the Master Blaster too, because of the slight knockback & larger projectiles.
I do like having a general blind drop anywhere and be fine loadout which for me is:
Dark Thorn Blade (Pierce sword)
Voltedge (Elemental sword)
Acheron (Shadow sword)
Valiance (Normal gun)
but I usually look at my gate map and tune my loadout instead.
The Autogun (taken Blitz path which is Piercing) is great for FSC especially the boss fight, but is not really the best choice for a general clockworks 2 weapon loadout sidearm.
Just realized you never said what your play-style is? or what you plan for your play-style to be. or how many weapon slots you use?
Fri, 12/23/2011 - 19:03
#10
Thanks
Thanks for all the tips. I'm just starting out, and was looking for a general use gun. Since I'm not too familiar with monster weaknesses yet, and only have two slots freed up, I suppose I'll stick with another normal damage gun. The Blaster seems like a good choice.
Not too sure about what I plan on focusing on in the future. I've got a fair bit of experience kiting enemies from other games, so I might go for a gunslinger.
Fri, 12/23/2011 - 22:16
#11
@ genomax
If you are going for a pure gunner, you will eventually need 4 slots (which in the long run isn't that expensive) so you can all damage types and so you have an extra/ backup weapon. If you are still starting off i suggest instead of a normal gun, get a normal damage sword (caliber) and an elemental alchemer.
Being that the caliber line is normal damage, it's effective against all monsters, thus making a great backup for gunners (if you plan on being a gunner that is). It is also a great starter weapon anyways since the recipes are always available from Kozma in the bazaar (under Bechamel, next to Brinks the token trader).Plus, calier beats blaster in terms of damage, and the charge can hit up to 3 times with huge knockback (use with caution, or else teammates get hit by attacking monsters)
With it I suggest a status inflicting alchemer; they are good against 4/6 monster families (the two being wolvers and gremlins, which try to dodge bullets anyways) and the status always has a chance of being inflicted, unless the monster is the same "element."
Since you are a beginner, i recommend firotech (as aforementioned). While freeze is safe to use, it is only effective if a) You know how to use it effectively and/ or b) Your teammates understand the freeze mechanics (it only does damage if you don't break it) or can take advantage of it. As Icee mentioned, shock is not good for beginners because since it can be dangerous if not used correctly in certain situations. Thus, fire is the most reliable in terms of DPS and will not hinder party play. Also, fire is great for kiting :)
Sat, 12/24/2011 - 00:30
#12
Dark-Flare, in the comparison
Dark-Flare, in the comparison with alchemers, you left out Prisma (pure damage), which does a little more damage per bullet in exchange for no status. It's doesn't have the caveat of fire (breaking freeze, problem with oilers) and approximatively the same damage overall, including fire damage. That is the gun i would recommend.
Sat, 12/24/2011 - 09:09
#13
@ Fradow
If the damage is about the same, then yes prisma would probably be a better starter gun (reliable in most situations, no risk of oilers, etc). I think the only pro to going firotech then is that you can kite/ hit and run enemies while still doing (fire) damage. That said, i guess it's up to personal preference.
Sat, 12/24/2011 - 11:47
#14
@Icee I'm pretty sure shock
@Icee I'm pretty sure shock can't spread from monsters unless they are mechaknights, as this is their ability.
Sat, 12/24/2011 - 14:20
#15
Freeze is still safest.
I know shock can spread from quicksilvers, and of course shocking them makes them heal a little and berzerk, which is very dangerous for beginners. I thought I had been shocked by other shock-inflicted enemies as well, but since I usually play bomber or gunner these days, I'm rarely up close and personal to let the status spread, so I could be wrong. I do use shock guns often (mostly my Polaris at this point) and for end-game I recommend owning basically every type of status gun so you can always have the optimal gear for a T3 level.
My point still stands that freeze is the safest status for a beginner to inflict. No status (prismatech) is also ok, but I think that occasionally freezing puppies and retrodes is worthwhile compared to an extra 10% damage. Early in the game, crowd control is especially important and keeping the range-damaging enemies from aiming is hugely useful.
If you're on a tight budget, I wouldn't recommend upgrading any alchemer to 4* until you've tried at least a couple of them at lower levels. The 2* versions are very cheap in the auction house, so it pays to play around and see which one suits you. I love my cryotech alchemer, and it was the best for me as a beginner, but once I got better at the game I found the firotech line more useful. If I were on a tight budget, I would have concentrated only on the firotech and kilowatt pulsar lines and avoided making a hail driver. (As it stands, I had plenty of CE to work them all up to 5*, which is nice.)
Mon, 12/26/2011 - 04:33
#16
@Icee
QUicksilvers don't entirely SPREAD shock, more of INFLICT it
Im personally trying to go between firotech, cyrotech and voltech.. have recipies ofr cryo and volt ...
If you want only ONE gun for all situations, you have no other choice than to take a normal gun.
The best all-around normal gun is probably the blaster. Don't take an Autogun, even tho it has a high dps, it's very impractical to use because it roots you in place.
Usually tho, you either get a gun as a side-arm or are a dedicated gunslinger, meaning you'll have more than one gun (thus having different damage types).
I guess you are in the first situation : a gun as a side-arm is mainly used to deal with enemies which are troublesome to deal with at close range. This includes all turrets and lumbers. Those are all either neutral (for polyps) or weak (for all the others) to elemental. Thus, a gun as a side-arm is going to be, in most situations, an elemental gun.
As for elemental gun, you currently have 2 choices :
- a Polaris line. The expanded shot is really good because of AoE and attack cancel, but it's troublesome for your teamates
- any elemental Alchemer line. There is no problem with teamates, it's a good gun. I assume you already know this type of gun (tho i wouldn't advise to carry a shadowtech for general purpose side-arm).