Spiral Knights - Sleeping Weapons a Possibility? Come voice our opinion...

Sleeping Weapons a Possibility? Come voice our opinion...

32 replies [Last post]

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 22:57

Bromon

As you very well know, we have a large variety of weapons that can inflict status effects such a shock, freeze, and even curse, but it seems we don't have a single weapon that utilizes the sleep status effect.There are several obvious reasons why: Sleep effect heals its target, It could be insanely overpowered in PVP, ect, but at the same time is can be quite helpful as a support weapon. I'm sure OOO has been experimenting and such but I'm curious if you think there is any possibility that we will ever get a sleeping weapon in SK? If so how might it be implemented?

I have had a couple ideas myself.

My first, would be some sort of sleeping gas vaporizer. I think it would be an excellent support bomb in arenas as long as the chance of it inflicting the effect was decreased. Being able to stop a section of mobs to leave for later could essentially save your whole team. A Shards bomb with that same basic effect my not be bad ether

Another idea I had would essentially be a tranquilizer gun, either a branch off of the magnus, or a needle shot. A Basic shot wont really cause sleep that often, charge shot will. Simple as that

Finally, for my last idea, it would kinda be like a fraust, has a chance of sleeping your enemies but could also cause sleep to you (although I realize this would be insanely annoying)(Perhaps it could use the argument that it can suck the energy out of its wielder and targets?)

As for the sleep status effect, most of my ideas are based of the premise that while asleep even if something hits you, you'll stay asleep. The thing is i'm not sure if that's how the sleep effect works so could someone clear that up for me? If my premise is wrong do you believe there should be a change in the sleep effect

And for one final note, this thread is not necessarily a weapon suggestion thread but instead a thread on the possibility and usefulness of sleep if implemented into a weapon of some sort.
So voice you opinion and thoughts. I'd love to here what the rest of the community thinks.

Tue, 12/27/2011 - 00:33

Aemicus

I'm pretty sure you wake up

I'm pretty sure you wake up if you are hit. And I kinda like the idea of a single shot tranquilizer gun. Of course, bosses would have to be immune.

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 00:56

Traevelliath

Freeze

Well um... if bosses are immune to sleep, then what is the difference between sleep and frozen, other than one works on bosses, and the other doesn't?

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 01:22

Aemicus

Healing, damage, and whether

Healing, damage, and whether or not the affected enemy can attack. Think about it, just shoot Vanaduke with the tranq and he won't attack until you hit him, in exchange for a little healing. Can you imagine how cheap that would be? If they are frozen however, they can still attack, and the ice does damage. That's why I don't think it should affect bosses.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 05:37

Yeriq

No to sleeping gas bomb

I'm kinda leaning to no on the sleeping gas bomb or sword but yes to a tranquilizer gun but with 3 shots. The tranquilizer gun should have the slowest RPM in the game. RPM = rounds per minute.

As for the mechanics of sleep status, I would like that:

Does not affect bosses (but will afflict 1/3 of the time mini-bosses - if or when the game has mini-bosses).
Certain monster's are resistant to sleep status like workaholic devilites and machine constructs. The rest are not.
Sleep time based on resistance (1 to 6 secs?)
Heals about 1/4 the rate of smallest heart tile - I'm referring to the ones before the Snarbolax fight.
You will inflict double damage if you hit a sleeping target. The unfortunate target will wake up, of course.

Can you imagine the payoff in LD?

Team mate with tranquilizer gun
Another team mate with Troika-line heavy sword, say a Sudaruska.
Team mate with gun sleeps opponent
Sudaruska wielder is ready with charge
WHOOMP!

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 02:37

Bromon

Bosses, Mechanics, and Supporting Roles

I agree with the boss thing. It should not effect bosses but would b very helpful against mini bosses.

As far as mechanics, to avoid having "another freeze effect" you could give sleep weapons a minor chance to cause good or extreme sleep. Less frequent but instead of suspending a portion for a small bit of time, you are able to stop a small portion of mobs completely for a larger amount of time. It would allow you to set mini bosses of to the side or disable gun puppies while you take out the small fry. I do think allowing minor sleep to be afflicted on its suer might be a good way to counter it IF it were to become overpowered what ever the weapon might be.

Just as a side thought, Do you think we will ever receive mainly support weapons in general like something that would boost your teamates defense or something (I personally would like it, but don't see it happening or going with the style of spiral knights even)

Wed, 12/28/2011 - 16:59

Dark-Flare

Sleeping in LD

Having sleep in LD would be interesting, but you should be able to break from it via teammate attacking you, just like freeze. The sleep weapons should also be somewhat difficult to obtain, like stun, because they are both very deadly if used correctly. plus, sleep gives Jelly Armor a time to shine :)

Sat, 12/31/2011 - 17:10

Karuariz

I hope i got this right...

Hitting a sleeping enemy doesn't wake it up except if its a hit that would nirmally cancel the enemys attack (troika line etc.). As for sleep weapon, a gun is definitely a no no (just think of the spammability) and with a sword it could only be a charge. Sleep bomb could be coo (pure status). Also, shouldn't slimes be immune to sleep?

Sat, 12/31/2011 - 17:43

Aemicus

Slimes and constructs,

Slimes and constructs, because I'm assuming constructs don't sleep at all. Oh, and if a devilite is discovered sleeping by his boss, he should be punished, that would be kinda funny.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 06:19

Skillkid

i think its a good idea

goood idea and i dissagrre with the bit about sleeping gas bombs bad i would say brilliant and yes they shouldnt affect bosses
cause that would make bosses TOO easy as they are just vulnerable and would make roarulus IMPOSSIBLE (only one to be made harder by sleep weapons)

a sleep sword would be sort of usless because even with slow swords there is only a second difference between 1 hit and the next so even i it did send them to sleep in about a second they'd be awake again so it would be pointless

out of 10 i would give a, hmmmm 9.5

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 08:16

#10

Juances

Are bosses actually affected

Are bosses actually affected by sleep vials now anyways? Plus roarmulus are constructs. Robots are immune to sleep so dont worry about them.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 17:39

#11

Insanejesterking

Sleep weapons eh?

I would have to agree with Skillkid about the sword. its own attacks would render it useless. However, a tranq gun sounds inticing. But in LD, it would be too powerfull. As Yeriq stated, the combo options would be devastating. If it was added to SK, it would recuire a recoil similiar to the faust. Otherwise, it would be spammed on even worse than the polaris. Sleep type bombs would have the same problems.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 20:23

#12

Yeriq

Powerful in LD yes but hard to execute

Powerful in LD yes but hard to execute or pull off.

What I'm thinking is a sleep gun that is slow to shoot, 3(or even just 2) shots and probably a slow bullet projectile. You don't fall asleep 100% of the time when you get hit just like you don't get stun every time you get hit by a magnus.

We also know that heavy swords are notorious of having long charge times so it takes good (or even great) team coordination to pull off a combo like this.

But I will concede if a team can pull it off, it will demoralized the opposition.

And the gun should be also interesting down in the clockworks.

Mon, 01/02/2012 - 00:13

#13

Aemicus

Any more than 1 shot would be

Any more than 1 shot would be too powerful.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 19:04

#14

Uuni

It would be fun to have a

It would be fun to have a grenade launcher weapon that shoots sleeping gas grenade is charged fire. Flies in an arc, long range, can be fired over targets

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 12:24

#15

Hmmnm

A sleeping troika line. The

A sleeping troika line.

The triglav line seemed really cool until people found out that enemies frozen by triglav did not knockback or flinch and were in the perfect range for retaliation.

Inflicting sleep instead of freeze on the second swing or in the charged attack would solve that problem.

Besides, troika users mostly use this sword for its knockback, not dps. Sleep would be a pretty good bonus for this sword.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 12:59

#16

Happyknightice

run away faster

troika sleeping would be great so i can run away faster

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 13:48

#17

Uuni

Sleeping triglav would be

Sleeping triglav would be awesome :o

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 16:26

#18

Sireez

knockout gas bomb. sorry just

knockout gas bomb. sorry just responding to the title xD
and maybe a tranquilizer version of the callahan.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 23:12

#19

Hmmnm

+1 to an elemental sleeping

+1 to an elemental sleeping magnus line

Another idea:
a sleeping cutter line.
The cutter line is a very fun sword to use. It is popular even though it is useless in higher stratums and PVP. The charge attack is also pretty useless.
Even if the very skilled people use the cutter line, it is nearly impossible to finish the whole sword combo without taking damage.

Since enemies don't wake up unless if they are hit with something that makes them flinch/fall over, enemies that are put to sleep won't wake up until the cutter finishes its combo (and might stay asleep after the combo). Also, since sleeping enemies don't knock back, it will make the ghost swings hit more easily.

I'd suggest making regular sword swings have a slight chance of causing strong sleep, while the charge attack swings each have a medium chance causing strong sleep.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 13:40

#20

Hmmnm

Bump I personally think that

Bump

I personally think that sleep has a lot of potential as a good support weapon, and just because a sleeping haze bomb would be overpowered doesn't mean that the whole status should be nixed from a game!!

So which sleeping weapons do you guy support?

I personally think that a sleeping elemental damage Magnus is a must. And no, a sleeping elemental Magnus would not be OP. Why? Because I use exclusively Magnus as a Recon. And I get on average on stun per game.
Yup, If you get stunned from a Magnus...it's pretty unlucky.

Sat, 01/28/2012 - 19:13

#21

Bromon

First off does anyone feel

First off does anyone feel sleep needs to be implemented a little more. Is there even a monster that can cause sleep? And curse? I realize there some of the most dangerous statuses and can't be extremely common but i haven't seen these statuses at all in PvE. Maybe they're in T3.

Also A Sleep weapon would be a pretty good balance for lockdown. In or to resist the status, people would use jelly armour instead of wolver armor to resist the effects cause unlike stun if you're put to sleep you're screwed unless someone has your back. This in turn might reduce the power of full dusker toothpicker's and add a little diversity into the game. Of course the effects wont be so drastic but it should help a little. The tricky part is getting the weapon balanced.

oh and Bumb

Sat, 01/28/2012 - 23:00

#22

Imperialstriker

ehh

Curse is down in the shadow lairs, I think it features prominently in the Shadow Laired Version of FSC.

Sleep used to have the Starlight Cradle, but that's since been removed, likely for balancing reasons.

Sun, 01/29/2012 - 04:31

#23

Fehzor

I like the idea of a sleep

I like the idea of a sleep troika, I suggested it once someplace I think. The idea, is that you swing it so slowly, it puts them to sleep.

Mon, 01/30/2012 - 12:16

#24

Softhead

@Bromon

The sloom is a rare Monster Cage enemy that causes sleep.

Curse. Phantoms. And Darkfire Vanaduke, Carnavons(Curse Zombies) and Cursed Dreadknought. The Three latters are only in UFSC.

Idiot.(don't mean this is for you, it's my Signature.)

Mon, 01/30/2012 - 14:57

#25

Nicoya-Kitty

@Lordvesuvius Minor

@Lordvesuvius Minor correction: Carnavons can show up in rare graveyard scenario rooms.

Mon, 01/30/2012 - 15:23

#26

Demonicsothe

Carnavons also show up in the

Carnavons also show up in the candlestick scenario room, with two dead knights by a candle and one reaching for a gate. It was just one though.

On topic, sleeping troika is a great idea. A 2 shot tranq gun is good too, though by logic it would not do huge amounts of damage.

Mon, 01/21/2013 - 12:37

#27

Loneblade

I like the tranquilizer gun

I like the tranquilizer gun idea, so long as its a no dmg weapon that doesnt have 100% chance of inducing sleep. Maybe make it something that comes with Starter Pack?

Mon, 01/21/2013 - 14:04

#28

Atacii

...

I don't understand why you all feel the need to limit a weapon with the sleep status. For the careful player, it is just a second rate version of freeze( assuming sleep has a similar duration).

But as for weapons to get the effect: a needle gun, mist bomb, and some kind of hammer make the most sense to me.

Tue, 01/22/2013 - 03:02

#29

Batabii

Congratulations loneblade,

Congratulations loneblade, you just bumped a thread that's been dead for A YEAR.

Wed, 01/23/2013 - 15:11

#30

Fehzor

LARRY

Over a year; but still perfectly valid.

Sleep could be balanced into the game just as anything else could be. That the devs would even consider adding pets into the game proves this... so arguing that (almost) ANY suggestion would tip the balance is rather out of the question.

Arguing that it would be hard to balance, and thus would take too long to develop is a valid point on occasion, but not that "It isn't balanceable" or "It would be OP" as if the devs are somehow unable to implement features with any regard to balance. Unless those features are the guardian armor types and magnus lines, the devs failed with those. And jelly armor.

Fri, 01/25/2013 - 11:22

#31

Loneblade

Best time to re-discuss this issue

Lol, srr to upset the balance Batabii, but i just thought that the sleep status should have more significance in this game, especially being such a double edged status. And I agree with Fehzor, change is inevitable and haters will hate, but to dismiss something that really wouldnt affect the game THAT MUCH, and could actually make it slightly more interesting. Plus with pets with buff effects coming i think its the perfect time to re-discuss sleep, seeing as a door to new healing tricks is about to be opened.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 18:36

#32

Aosilver

Good Idea

I agree! Sleep weapons Like sleep gas bombs, or like, a Sleeping pepper box or maybe a Sleeping Troka. We really haven't seen any sleep bosses or anything of that Sleep general area. There is a Sloom...a creature of the Lichen family who has Sleeping ability's. (My fave creature because I love Sleep) But it would really excite the Knights if there was a new element weapon. And maybe new monsters, even though we've just introduced the Black Kat.

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Sleeping Weapons a Possibility? Come voice our opinion...