Would you consider it spam according to certain definition of spam or "How everyone can be banned without vaild reason"
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 02:45
Hello, im having currently an conversation about what can be considered a spam via support mail (well, im sending mails, they answered it once.... and silent for almost a day...while it took them 15 mins for first answer) and i would like to know your (players opinion) about it. Id like you to answer 2 simple questions that are bolded down there in my post. Here is chat log with my chat posts that one claims to be a spam:
------------------------------------------------------------
06:09:38:054 default Asukalan: selling 5star mats! Primal ore, Shadow
steel, Plague essence, sun silver, spark of life... and many others! PM me if
you need something!
06:09:40:138 default Asukalan: selling 5star mats! Primal ore, Shadow
steel, Plague essence, sun silver, spark of life... and many others! PM me if
you need something!
06:11:16:619 default Asukalan: selling 5star mats! Primal ore, Shadow
steel, Plague essence, sun silver, spark of life... and many others! PM me if
you need something!
06:11:17:885 default Asukalan: selling 5star mats! Primal ore, Shadow
steel, Plague essence, sun silver, spark of life... and many others! PM me if
you need something!
------------------------------------------------------------
a)Facts. 1st and 2nd made one after another. Then 2 minutes of break and again 3rd and 4th made one after another. The 1/2 second break is characteristic to ppl who post in two channels at once (the techinique used by 99% of players to find sellers/buyers quicker). The almost 2 minute break between 1st and 2nd AND 3rd and 4th is characteristic to the time that is needed to switch to other heaven (the techinique used by most players to find seller/buyer more easly).
b)What does chat log not include is that 1st post was made on trade channel while 2nd was made on zone channel (to reach ppl who dont have trade turned on - its off by default). Also 3rd and 4th post was made in completly diffrent heaven than 1st and 2nd and as before 3rd was made on one channel and 4th was made on another channel.
1st Question - Is it a spam for you? Posting each of chat msg on completly diffrent channels and completly diffrent heavens?
b)Second issue. As you can see "there's less than three seconds between identical pieces of chat" - a direct quote. Its about 1st and 2nd piece of chat. Would you consider it a spam? Even if it would made on same channel. JUST 2 identical pieces of chat made one after another. Well for some it could matter that these were ONLY 2 pieces of same chat, that could be not really made with premeditation but could be a stucked key, wrong copypaste, just a mistake or maybe premade msg while you wanted to quickly tell someone in hurry and you just double entered enter key.
2nd Question - Is it a spam for you? Posting 2 (TWO) identical pieces of chat made one after another.
IGN Asukalan
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
ps. for this certain situation, described in this post, we assume that this is DEFINITION OF SPAM:
"Spamming - flooding the chat with the same message or nonsense over and over - annoys other players and is forbidden."
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 04:08
#2
"any repeated
"any repeated action/message/(whatever u can think of) from any1's point of view can be considered a spam, so id think of both as spam, but then again what do U associate with spam in the context of ur question.."
So in your opinion, when one posts 1 chat msge in zone channel and then 1 chat msge in trade channel its 100% spam.
Even if for some who have trade channel (or zone) turned off only one message apperas from zone(or trade) channel? So posting 1 msge in zone or trade channel is a spam for you?
Also when one posts a msge on one heaven and then immidiatly logs to another heaven and posts it again its 100% spam? Even if people in first heaven see just one msg while people in second heaven see the other one and none of them sees them both (but they appear in chat log like it were done one after another)? Then its a 100% spam? Its intresting.
And to second question. Posting 2, exactly 2 identical pieces of chat, made one after another is always 100% spam made with premeditation to annoy and make other people live miserable? Lucky you are perfect and never have missclicks or accidents with keyboard.
Following your way of thinking currently 99% of ppl can be banned for reason spamming (1% who dont talks).
Wait, or maybe you want to say that EVERY msge, even one can be considered spam? So you want to tell us that everyone in game, who is not liked by GM/admin can be banned for spam since every msge can be considered spam?
And please, its not about how long it took to finde trade channel, or how hidden is it and if it should be turned on by default. Its about certain situation. Described in first post with all details and id like to have your answers to 2 bolded questions that are fitted to that certain situation described in first post. No offtopic please.
ps. I have edited topic to fit problem better and added an axiom definition of spam that will be used in this certain case.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 04:11
#3
No.
This is not spam for me - you'd have to be in the trade channel and the same Haven to see the same message in rapid succession, and just once, and with clear indication that it was posted in different channels.
2 minutes is an eternity in the trade channel, especially during the busier hours/days. I would consider spam if the interval was less than 20 or 30 seconds in the same channel.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 04:11
#4
If you're Selling/ Buying things...
Then just do what I do:
-Post my Offer
-Wait to see if anyone takes it
-If not, wait till my Offer disappears from the Chat Log
-Re-Enter Offer
It usually works for me.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 04:25
#5
Also, according to definition
Also, according to definition "Spamming - flooding the chat with the same message or nonsense over and over - annoys other players and is forbidden." Spam is something that annoys players. If it annoys someone he fills a complaint. He goes to complain section and what is the first thing that he sees? Ill bring up a quote from game: "If xxxxxxx has been offensive or harrasing and has not stopped when asked, click here to file a complaint."
Do any of you see in the chat log (its the complete chatlog that i have recieved from support when i asked for a proof that my behavior was spamming) that anyone tells me that its annoying him and askimg me to stop?
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 04:31
#6
Zelda
if i see a repeated message/action/w.e i consider it a spam
i think i made my opinion clear enough. if ur more interested in bans, ask the staff about their opinion and leave it at that, thers no need to twist up the message of my posts in an offensive way
in certain situation u hav to ask certain people, because obviously i wasnt in certain situation witnessing either of the chat messages - no its not a spam to me even if u write 999999999999 repeated messages and i dont witness them. please use some common sense and friendlier words when asking others for their opinion, thanks alot
i find following offensive and offtopic:
"Lucky you are perfect and never have missclicks or accidents with keyboard."
"Following your way of thinking currently 99% of ppl can be banned for reason spamming (1% who dont talks)."
"Wait, or maybe you want to say that EVERY msge, even one can be considered spam? So you want to tell us that everyone in game, who is not liked by GM/admin can be banned for spam since every msge can be considered spam?"
if u havent noticed, common sense is part of terms of use
"And please, its not about how long it took to finde trade channel, or how hidden is it and if it should be turned on by default. Its about certain situation. Described in first post with all details and id like to have your answers to 2 bolded questions that are fitted to that certain situation described in first post. No offtopic please."
i apologize for having outlined a major issue for merchants and customers, ill cut the last words from my post, although i think they were constructive..
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 05:01
#7
this is what i do to avoid this
Use /2 channel since it's specifically for trades. No one can blame you for that.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 05:13
#8
"ask the staff about their
"ask the staff about their opinion and leave it at that" well i did that but it seems that people from Support dont like to answer mails with constructive arguments. They like to answer just once, hoping that "its just another player" who will not fight for his case, who will "put his tail between his legs" and will be easy to get rid off him.
But when i started asking them questions with my arguments and followed by logical analysis that was against their stretched opinion they SUDDENLY gone silent!?
Why im here? Why im asking players for opinion? Becouse im being ignored by officials. They just decided im gonna be banned and are blind to my arguments (it took them just 15 minutes to answer my question for proof but when i started undermining their evidence providing my testimony and arguments they stopped answering for almost day now). And what you do when officials ignore you? You aks public for opinion.
I was banned for reason: "Spamming - flooding the chat with the same message or nonsense over and over - annoys other players and is forbidden."
Evidence:
06:09:38:054 default Asukalan: selling 5star mats! Primal ore, Shadow
steel, Plague essence, sun silver, spark of life... and many others! PM me if
you need something!
06:09:40:138 default Asukalan: selling 5star mats! Primal ore, Shadow
steel, Plague essence, sun silver, spark of life... and many others! PM me if
you need something!
06:11:16:619 default Asukalan: selling 5star mats! Primal ore, Shadow
steel, Plague essence, sun silver, spark of life... and many others! PM me if
you need something!
06:11:17:885 default Asukalan: selling 5star mats! Primal ore, Shadow
steel, Plague essence, sun silver, spark of life... and many others! PM me if
you need something!
where 1st made on trade channel, 2nd made on zone then switching to another heaven and 3rd made on trade and 4th made on zone.
Why im convicted im innocent:
1)According to definition "Spamming - flooding the chat with the same message or nonsense over and over - annoys other players and is forbidden." Spam is something that annoys players. If it annoys someone he fills a complaint. He goes to complain section. Complain section states: "If xxxxxxx has been offensive or harrasing and has not stopped when asked, click here to file a complaint."
Noone told me to stop, noone told me its annoying him. There is no thing like that on evidence provided by support. So where is the one that accused me of spamming? I ask where? Or maybe there were even no report?
2)According to the support way of thinking:
- Posting each of chat msg on completly diffrent channels and completly diffrent heavens - SPAM
- Posting 2 (TWO) exactly 2 identical pieces of chat made one after another. - SPAM - its not mistake, its not missclick, its not just wrong button clicked - SPAM
Its completly ridiculous since according to that 99% of SK population can be banned for SPAM which gives Support UNLIMITED power to ban any player in game for any reason, just when they like to.
Another fact. My suspension was issuded just FEW hours after i have posted my opinion about lack of new content on forum that revealed kind of theory (by some considered as conspiracy) that hit admins SO HARD they had to immidiatly block topic to prevend ANY discussion. Coincidence?
And to those who will now say. "Dont try to appeal your ban on forum, go to support" I did it, i was ignored.
Thats why again, i send you to first post, do exact situation described there http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/38314 and i ask you to answer to questions:
1st Question - Is it a spam for you? Posting each of chat msg on completly diffrent channels and completly diffrent heavens?
2nd Question - Is it a spam for you? Posting 2 (TWO) identical pieces of chat made one after another.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 05:10
#9
"Use /2 channel since it's
"Use /2 channel since it's specifically for trades. No one can blame you for that."
Not sure what this means, you propably need to read what i said again since it seems unrelated to the problem.
Also, according to log that was delivered to me by support. It does not distinguish Channel where it was posted (guild/trade/zone/general/tell) or heaven where it was posted. It gives a support staff an unlimited ability to ban someone even for:
Posting a same piece of chat in:
Guild chat then in Trade chat then after logging in to other heaven in zone chat. Becouse on log it will look like it was made in one place = SPAM.
As i said in post above, its completly ridiculous.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 07:19
#10
So, let me get this
So, let me get this straight.
You came here under the guise of finding out other people's opinions but when their opinions largely represent the sentiment that your ban was deserved then your real context came forth and you decided to contest your ban on this forum which is specifically against the forum policy.
So, deep down, you want to be banned from the game AND the forums.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 07:48
#11
sorry, no, 99% of the
sorry, no, 99% of the population will not be banned for spam. I rarely type things, and they pretty much never repeat. I don't have the need to tell every player in the game about an item I'm selling. I just post it on the AH and go on my way. Saves a lot of time and it sells fast for a good price. I rarely see people who spam the chat channel when actually playing or away from the AH.
I do see people spam talk at the AH in haven. i'm fine with that since that is what they are there for. I get really annoyed at people who spam the haven zone channels and I really think they should get rid of them (you never have any need to talk to everyone in haven).
Beggars are worse than buyers/sellers though since at least the last two people are trying to accomplish something other than get a free ride.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 07:58
#12
I decided to contest my ban
I decided to contest my ban on forum becouse im being ignored by support while im contacting them in right way. Support seems to answer only those people who dont want anything from them, who are silent and meek. As soon as you start asking them question, giving your arguments they start to completly ignore you as in hope you will just remain silent and you will be easy to get rid.
"which is specifically against the forum policy." YES! Thats what support wants! Doing everything behind players, behind public opinion. Doing their nasty stuff away from majority judgement and away from public opinion. So noone knows what they are doing to players and what really is out there.
And about forum rules, they are not accurate. One of them says:
"Do not: Use the forum to protest a support action, such as a ban. Use the Support Email form to report disputes regarding staff actions so that your issue can be escalated quickly and appropriately."
Where
"PLEASE NOTE: Using a forum post to protest a support action, such as a ban, may make it necessary for us to discuss the circumstances of your case in public. We strongly recommend submitting your dispute via the Support Email form instead." just suggests to use support mail.
I decided to bring it on forum, im fully away it may make necessary for staff to discuss the circumstances of my case in public.
And i ask once more, anyone who cares about game, and is against banning innocent people, should read first post of this topic http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/38314 and posts below, and answer two simple questions ( after acknowledging with all facts, chat log evidences, definition of SPAM and rules of complain ["If a players dont stops when asked"]):
1st Question - Is it a spam for you? Posting each of chat msg on completly diffrent channels and completly diffrent heavens?
-which comes with extra question, if posting each of chat msg on completly diffrent heavens is also a spam?
2nd Question - Is it a spam for you? Posting 2 (TWO), exact 2, not more, not less, identical pieces of chat made one after another.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 08:04
#13
answers
1st question: yes, since you're doing it every 2 minutes, most traders using /2 wait much longer than that between messages, and you're doing it in both /1 and /2
2nd question: see first answer.
secret answer 3: this forum thread is also you spamming
super answer 4: you're not allowed to contest bans on the forums.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 08:17
#14
You didnt read what i
You didnt read what i wrote.
The reason i was banned is that i posed 1st and 2nd msge one after another with less than 3 seconds between them. You are bringing up something completly unrelevant, that i was spammed becouse i posted on trade channel every 2 minutes?
This topic is not spam, according to official support spam definition (read first post).
Yes, im allowed but i have to deal with consequences that support will be forced to talk about my case in public (read whole Forum rules).
And back to your answers, it seems that in your opinion...
Posting each of chat msg on completly diffrent channels and completly diffrent heavens is for you a spam since im doing it every 2 minutes. So it seems you claim that you can only post same thing every 2 minutes? Even on diffrent heavens? Situation, you log in to english heaven, post WTS: XXX then log in to spanish heaven and post WTS:XXX again - BAM - Its spam since you didnt waited 2 minutes? Intresting
If anyone else plans to answer questions, please read with understeanding.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 08:14
#15
.....
I understand you want
.....
I understand you want opinions from other players, but common man if you want to be all high and mighty and go with the idea you got banned for the wrong reasons etc. Use the support, don't dis the people who have power over you either that usually dosent end well for example, if your teacher/proffesor controls your grade in a class, and you get caught cheating the worse thing you can do is call them dumb in public if that professor or teacher was going to give you any slack...well you just lost it since they will keep that in mind.
Question 1 and 2: (My Answer)
Yes its spam.
Feel Free Not to do @njthug or @anything related to my post. You asked the community for our point of view, and I don't feel like arguing what you asked me to answer even if its not in your best interest take a topic like this public have to be ready to get told others believe that your in the wrong.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 08:23
#16
@njthug
Thank you for another
@njthug
Thank you for another intresting opinion. It seems that majority of players claim that positng same thing in COMPLETLY DIFFRENT HEAVENS where almost all players are diffrent than in previous heaven, is spamming.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 08:29
#17
nope.avi
Call me strange, but I don't think you were spamming at all. I know that's a valid tactic that most Haven 1 sellers or Haven-Hoppers use:
Haven 1 Sellers: /2 chat > /y chat in rapid succession, wait for a 30-60 second cooldown, repeat
Haven Hoppers: /2 chat> /z chat> haven hop, repeat
If you were singled out because of your technique, then why not ban all the Haven 1 sellers and Haven Hoppers, hmm? Or shall we just save it for the annoying ones who spam "/shout buy my crap/shout by my crap/shout by my crap"? Whoever reported Asukalanforum, please report me and the rest of /2 channel and save the world so much grief. :D
Small sidenote: Although this may be considered "contesting a ban", I believe it does go under the "What's your opinion" file and not the "I got banned a;dsginz.dkjn vzdkfxj.bn sd;" file.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 08:35
#18
response
If you have only a 60 second window between /2 messages, then yeah, you can get banned too, I wouldn't have a problem with that. Most people on /2 seem to wait ~5 minutes between messages, though, or more, so I think you'd be in the minority.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 08:36
#19
@huhbum
Not really. I have multiple friends who do sell in Haven 1 who have a 30-60 second cooldown window. Then again, I have stayed in Haven 1 for hours at a time. It just depends on one's exposure to the selling, I think.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 08:38
#20
@X
Your average spam window(counted with stopwatch) is ~44 seconds, and you post your wares about 6 times more than the average poster on /2 this morning.
I would suggest you slow down
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 08:43
#21
@H
Never been reported for spam. Don't see how it's spam. If you're in /2 chat you should be used to it, you're free to ignore it, and as long as I'm not spamming useless crap, who cares? Go time everyone else and tell me how the results stack up. I'm curious.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 08:58
#22
response
Did a quick survey as requested, over the past ten minutes or so:
(player names omitted)
# of players with more than 1 post/minute: 1
# of players with more than 1 post/3minute but not more than 1 post/minute: 5
# of players with more than 1 post/5minute but not more than 1 post/3minute: 3
# of players with at least 1 post in the ten minute span but not more than that: 11
As to your other comment, I am just saying that if Asukalanforum was reported for spamming at his rate, and that I agree with the ban; that you suggest that because you post just as much as he does or more, you should be banned too, I agree with that also. Bans should be consistent.
That would assume that both of you were reported for the same action, however. The fact that he was reported in the first place and you were not, speaks to the power of having a good reputation as opposed to a bad one(as Njthug pointed out).
Edit: This issue could be easily solved by having flood control on /2 and /1.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 09:08
#23
You can make another topic
You can make another topic and store your statistics there, they could be used to make more specific definition of spam or even make new anti spam/flood filter. Aslo it seems that support definition of spam is mixed with flood which is completly wrong since spam and flood are 2 diffrent things.
Once again, im pointing towards those two questions:
1st Question - Is it a spam for you? Posting each of chat msg on completly diffrent channels and completly diffrent heavens?
example to help you imagine situation: You log in to english heaven and post WTS:XXX then immidiatly you log in to spanish heaven and post again WTS:XXX - two completly diffrent heavens, completly diffrent players -
example to help you imagine situation: You log in to english heaven, want to sell something and you post it on trade channel WTS:XXX then realise that people have trade chat turned off by default so you post it on zone channel WTS:XXX - two diffrent channels part of ppl see both messages (since they turned trade chat ON by themselfs accepting pros and cons coming with it) and part of ppl see just one msg since they have trade turned off by default
2nd Question - Is it a spam for you? Posting 2 (TWO), exact 2, not more, not less, identical pieces of chat made one after another.
Answer only after reading whole topic with understeanding.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:43
#24
It is spam. Spammers should
It is spam. Spammers should be warned, suspended, then banned.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 10:59
#25
@Richy Another intresting
@Richy Another intresting opinion, claiming that posting in completly diffrent heavnes to completly diffrent people is spam. Thank you
Btw, about spammers being warned, i completly agree to you. Becouse even the complain ingame section says "If xxxxxxx has been offensive or harrasing and has not stopped when asked, click here to file a complaint." And has not stopped when asked can be equal to warning someone to stop doing that.
But as you have read in my posts before (i assume you read them) i wasnt warned, all that chatlog evidence shows is my msges that are making for very stretched evidence.
It seems that either person who complained on me should be warned for not acknowleding the rules of complain (becouse so far it wasnt complain becouse i annoyed that particular person, but just becouse it was me - a complain made from hatred or hate towards me) or the person who applied ban on me dont even know what is said in complain ingame menu. Either way its just proves that my ban is unjustified.
ps. propably after getting enough of opinions im gonna make topic with the "New Definition of Spam" Its gonna be fun thread since so far i have heard that posting more frequent than every 2 minutes or posting on diffrent heavens to completly diffrent people is considered spam. Also its seems that people seem to be convinced that even posting on diffrent channels is a spam, it seems they would call a spammer someone who will post same thing on guild chat, tell and then on zone! Doh its a spam! Its same thing one after another, its not like those are 3 separate channels.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 14:15
#26
They went silent because you
They went silent because you are going to argue every point they make and not listen because you truly believe that you did nothing wrong.
What you were doing was spamming, and not even in the correct channel.
By the way, no one has to complain you for three rings to know certain things. Maybe you weren't warned that particular time, but maybe you've been warned before on that name or a different account. I'm sure that wasn't the only time you've been complained if it was based on complaints. I bet more than likely you had multiple complaints on you for them to ban/suspend you.
Spamming is also trying to sell stuff in the wrong channel. Saying it over and over every minute or two. I have warned and complained people multiple times for doing just that. I've even had people try and argue with me about it. I warned them, and when they try to argue I complain them. Then I ignore them. lol. Your best bet is to just keep every thing in the proper channel, haven 1 or 2 is also considered a place where you can go to sell stuff.
Basically like someone said earlier, try your hardest to use your common sense. It isn't this huge logical thought out thing. Spamming is repeating the action over and over... even if it's in different channels.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 15:44
#27
"They went silent because you
"They went silent because you are going to argue every point they make and not listen because you truly believe that you did nothing wrong." - Or maybe they dont want to admit their mistake? Istnt it support, that is supposed to support players and explain things? Or maybe players dont have right to have opinions agains MIGHTY and ALWAYSTRUE support? They have to always agree with every decision of theirs and never complain?
If its true, i fear that i wont get here ANY TRUE OPINION, becouse players on forum are living in fear, and are afraid that mighty and alwaysright GMs of game will send lighting over their heads if they will post their true opinion in here and it will be AGAINST support will. It fits perfectly, becouse i cant understeand how someone with sane mind will tell publicaly that "posting 2 (exactly 2) same msges in completly diffrent heavens is 100% spam" since its complete nonsense.
"What you were doing was spamming, and not even in the correct channel." - So for you, trade channel and zone channel are not correct channels for it? I always though trade and zone channels are fit to it. Trade is trade, its obvious, and zone its good since it doesent spam screen and it reaches people who have trade still turned off by default.
"Basically like someone said earlier, try your hardest to use your common sense. It isn't this huge logical thought out thing. Spamming is repeating the action over and over... even if it's in different channels." - What you understeand by saying "over and over". Does posting 2 (TWO), exact two pieces of same chat as "posting same thing over and over"? Becouse thats why im banned, the reason they banned me is posting exactly 2 same pieces of chat with a pause of less than 3 seconds between them. So it seems that GMs/support claims that 2 pieces are already "over and over again"
---------------
ps. Thank you Huhbum, we have already seen your opinion in post #13 that confimed you didnt even read what i wrote (or you have readed it without understeanding). It proves that you are here just for trolling.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 15:19
#28
captain picard, where are you
just so you know
from now on, when i read your forum posts, i read them in this style
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 15:43
#29
It's comforting to know . . .
. . . that SK is banning people for spamming. I have close to 500 people on my ignore list, mainly for spamming trade chat.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 15:49
#30
@Mawashimono I dont why did
@Mawashimono I dont why did you bring up that comment here, its not the point of topic, "what comforts Mawashimono".
if you would read and at least to try to understeand what i have wrote... I was not banned for spaming. Sure its the "official" reason. Yet, support dont have anything to confim it, their actual evidence is stretched and it lacks of details and now they are running away from their mistake going all silent and not answering on any mail sent to them.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 16:01
#31
My co-worker and I laughed sooo much
@Huhbum ... That video was priceless. The guy I work with had seen it, I had not. Man we were howling.
Thanks for that!
@Asukalanforum,
Yes, it was spam. Believe all of us who tell you that or not, It really does not matter.
I, much like Mawashimono, have hundreds of players on my ignore list. Mostly for spamming outside of the trade channel.
That is all.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 16:09
#32
@Xombie
Another intresting
@Xombie
Another intresting opinion. It seems that everyone thinks that posting on COMPLETLY DIFFRENT HEAVENS is a spam, even if every person in first sees only one of chat piece while every person in second heaven sees just second piece of chat... WAIT? Doesent it mean that all of those ppl in two heavens are seeing just 1 piece of chat?? So you can be called spammer for JUST 1 piece of chat posted anywhere.
Do any of you even read what its about? Becouse i cant believe in all that nonsense you are posting, in comparision of facts i presented in first post. Or just see word "spam" you blindly say "yes, yes, spam bad"? Or maybe you are so deeply in fear, scared of GMs that you are forced to post such ridiclous opinions agains yourself?
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 16:30
#33
@Asukalanforum
Ok I have read this whole thing and yes I do understand where your coming from and that the chat log is pretty vague on what channel/haven you were talking in, how ever you must see where they are coming from as well. Ok so someone has joined trade channel. you first post in /1, then /2. ok now this person's whole chat box is now filled with your 2 back to back messages. If you want to sell mats, go in front of haven 1 ah and simply use /shout. you will more than likely get more than enough takers. If you want anyone on any haven to hear it simply use /2 for it is a global channel (off topic, i wish there was a global talk channel). zone channel is for talking, not trading so leave sales/buys out of it. I myself at one time did what you did, never got reported to my knowledge how ever I soon realized that I get more bites if I just do what I had stated in my post here.
so my conclusion, if someone was in only zone chat and not trade, they only seen one message, not spam. if someone was in both channels, and they seen both messages yes that can be qualified spam. ok so you can take this message how you wish. but i hope you understand more now.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 16:37
#34
"so my conclusion, if someone
"so my conclusion, if someone was in only zone chat and not trade, they only seen one message, not spam. if someone was in both channels, and they seen both messages yes that can be qualified spam. ok so you can take this message how you wish. but i hope you understand more now."
If someone was in only zone chat and not trade... not spam. If someone was in both cahnnels.... spam. It proves that to completly prove that im guilty of spam or not, support should check if the person that reported me had both chanels turned on. IF the person reported me just from hatred and will of revenge and had one of them turned off, that person should be punished for abusing complain funcion for its own profits.
Since evidences provided by support (which now gone silently) didnt completly proven that i was spamming (since according to what support log shows, support is propably seeing whole chat log, not what a certain person who fills a complaint sees, or they are seeing propably only chatlog of the person that complain is about) and therfore my ban is not justified since evidences are not complete (its not determined if person who complained on me really saw both of my posts and had the right to qualify it as spam and complain it).
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 16:41
#35
"zone its good since it
"zone its good since it doesent spam screen and it reaches people who have trade still turned off by default."
No, it is not. I turn off /trade chat because I am not interested in what anyone has to trade. So please don't post your trades in the zone chat. And just because people have it turned off by default doesn't make your argument any more valid. I doubt newbies would have enough crowns to take up on your offer, anyway!
Back in the preview, we didn't have the /trade chat channel. The amount of trades going up on /zone chat was ridiculous. It literally spammed every user on Haven who just wanted to chat. That's why /trade chat was implemented. So trade offers get their own niche, and /zone chatters are spared the slew of trade ads.
So to answer your questions:
1st Question (part A) - Is it a spam for you? Posting each of chat msg on completly diffrent channels?
Initially, I disagreed that this was spam. This is because if I had /trade off and /zone on, I only see you say this once. But again - I don't want to see trade advertisements on /zone chat, because you can use /trade chat for that. For this reason, I will have to say that this is spam.
and completly diffrent heavens?
Unfortunately... given the timing and how quickly you posted your trade chat, it's spam. If you have something to offer, you're expected to remain at a certain location - in your case, one Haven - so if anyone has an offer or would like to make a trade with you, it can be done quickly, instead of someone having to move across Havens. I get that you want to make sales. But jumping Havens isn't the way to go (even if you requested PMs so you can disclose your location).
imo, if you do have an interesting offer... I'd like for you to actually be in the Haven that you made the announcement in, because it takes me a minute or more to load between Havens and I don't have time to chase you.
2nd Question - Is it a spam for you? Posting 2 (TWO) identical pieces of chat made one after another.
Timing is important here. If there's a five-minute gap because no one is talking, it's not spam. But second after second is spam.
I hate nitpicking posts but I have to clarify something here:
"If xxxxxxx has been offensive or harrasing and has not stopped when asked, click here to file a complaint."
That's for harassment, not spamming. ><; Again, this is unfortunate, but for spam, there's no need for anyone to say anything for you to get a warning or a ban (please don't tell me you're evading the ban, that's bad and you'll get banned for that too). Do you know why? Because spammers post the same messages over and over again and so quickly that users asking them to stop will simply not be heard. This is why spam doesn't get the same "first, tell them to stfu, then report" treatment as other offenses.
My two cents.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 17:03
#36
ROAR.
I want you to listen VERY closely to what I'm saying. I'm going to say this and then not return to this thread again because you ARE very much in the wrong here.
" - Or maybe they dont want to admit their mistake? Istnt it support, that is supposed to support players and explain things? Or maybe players dont have right to have opinions agains MIGHTY and ALWAYSTRUE support? They have to always agree with every decision of theirs and never complain?
If its true, i fear that i wont get here ANY TRUE OPINION, becouse players on forum are living in fear, and are afraid that mighty and alwaysright GMs of game will send lighting over their heads if they will post their true opinion in here and it will be AGAINST support will. It fits perfectly, becouse i cant understeand how someone with sane mind will tell publicaly that "posting 2 (exactly 2) same msges in completly diffrent heavens is 100% spam" since its complete nonsense."
--- They made no mistake. Support is for you to find answers. It seems to me you DID try to argue it and they answered. They showed you why and you don't want to accept it. They can only try to explain so much to you when you REFUSE to understand and see it. They aren't going to cater to your every need and want. I think you have posted more than what you are saying on multiple occasions. If you are suspended, which means that you can come back and play after a few days, that IS your warning to not do it again. If you were banned then most likely there is more going on in this picture that you refuse to share... if you were banned you won't get to play the game again.
I am not scared of sharing my opinions with the almighty force of truth and awesomeness. I have been playing three rings' games for almost 10 years now. I have shared my opinions, agreement and disagreement, of things that have happened with them. No company is perfect. What you did is spam and I agree with the action they have taken.--
__________________________________
"So for you, trade channel and zone channel are not correct channels for it? I always though trade and zone channels are fit to it. Trade is trade, its obvious, and zone its good since it doesent spam screen and it reaches people who have trade still turned off by default."
--Zone channel is not the correct channel. Yeah sure you think you're clever by SPAMMING zone channel because there are people that aren't in trade chat. No, it isn't clever. There is a reason people aren't in trade channel, it's because they aren't needing anything or wanting anything or they plain don't want their screen scrolling and can't chat because of of the advertising going on in that channel. So you were not in the proper channel. You can go to haven 1 or 2 and advertise in those zones but usually anything outside of that is not accepted. Otherwise keep it in trade chat. No one wants to see it and have their screen scroll when they are busy doing other things. It's distracting, and not in the good way.--
______________
"What you understeand by saying "over and over". Does posting 2 (TWO), exact two pieces of same chat as "posting same thing over and over"? Becouse thats why im banned, the reason they banned me is posting exactly 2 same pieces of chat with a pause of less than 3 seconds between them. So it seems that GMs/support claims that 2 pieces are already "over and over again""
--What someone said earlier and I will say it again...
You posted four things, not two. Yes, they are in different channels. But if someone is in /trade AND the same zone as you they are getting FOUR messages of the same thing. That is spam. You were spamming.
Also, when someone complains you, the game masters only get so much of the chat sent to them. So they probably posted what they saw. I'm calling you out on hopping zones and saying the same thing in every zone chat on the havens.
So you were posting FOUR things as of the chat you showed above... not two. four, but to top it all off... there were mere SECONDS inbetween each message.
hey... wait... doesn't that sound familiar.. oh right. SPAM. I'll more than gladly get some bread and cheese for all the spam that's been going on lately.
I hope that's clearer. IF you still try and argue after I gave you clear cut and logical answer, that's just sad. Especially when I'm not going to read what you have to say after this post.
Have a good bright and shiney day!
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 17:26
#37
@Asukalanforum (#34)
It really doesn't matter which channels the complainer was in, because it is still spam to all the people who are in both channels. They can't really check the logs of all the complainers just to punish them for snitching or whatever. They check if the complaint is valid based on your actions, and if they go against the rules - case closed.
EDIT: @Jen just to get it straight before he uses it as a major argument against you, he changed Havens between the two postings, so unless someone followed him the most someone would see would be three (3) of the same message. Your point is still very much valid, though. Just sayin ^^
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 17:44
#38
lol
asuka, i can see that u r trying real hard to be reasonable, but u r really just being obnoxious
Mawashimono is extra comforted by the fact that u got banned
hope your forums ban is next
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 19:27
#39
Horrid typing. Sigh...
Am I the only one who is being driven crazy by this? It's Haven, not Heaven. HAVEN. H-A-V-E-N.
As for your ban, to echo previous posters, you deserve it. Trade chat is for trading. Zone chat is for chatting. This is not even something you can claim ignorance on, it's obvious. Also, maybe you've heard of this thing they put into the game not too long ago, they call it the Auction House. You can buy and sell all sorts of stuff there without having to resort to spamming Zone chat with your mats that nobody wants. You're just as bad as those people who shout what they're selling into local chat. If someone wanted to buy your stuff, it would have sold in just Trade chat.
@Huhbum
Best video I've seen all day.
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 19:46
#40
So in other words to sum up
So in other words to sum up the overall opinion:
Yes its spam, and the moderators did what needed to be done.
@Jen silly took you like 3 pages to answer that took me like 3 words I WIN.
@Saphy you cheated =0
Wed, 12/28/2011 - 19:48
#41
Outer Haven.
Outer Haven.
any repeated action/message/(whatever u can think of) from any1's point of view can be considered a spam, so id think of both as spam, but then again what do U associate with spam in the context of ur question..
E: i wont be checking this thread again, hf with OP..