Spiral Knights - Darkfang Shield stat change?

Darkfang Shield stat change?

19 replies [Last post]

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 04:54

Alice-In-Pyroland

So yesterday I saw a dude with a Darkfang Shield (Danipsycho I think? Something like that) and upon inspecting him noticed that the stats on the Darkfang Shield were basically a Blackened Crest with elemental resist. Curious since I'm sure it didn't have fire resist previously, according to the wiki talk page edits made recently it in fact HAS been stealth patched. Now consider that we know Ian is working on something relating to Gremlins via Nick's twitter, well I hardly think it needs spelling out.

So out of curiousity for anyone that does own a Darkfang Shield, any idea when this change occured? It must have been recent since screens from a month ago still had the old stats.

Edit: This in fact the general discussion and not the arsenal seemingly! I'm totally paying attention, really.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 06:23

Juances

Seriously? they talk about

Seriously? they talk about antigua changes and don't do s**t, but they patch a shield without a warning?
But could have been your mistake or a fire Uv. let's hope that.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 07:29

Alice-In-Pyroland

"But could have been your

"But could have been your mistake or a fire Uv. let's hope that."

Actually it couldn't have been, there was no fire res on the shield previously and now it has a full bar, despite a Fire Max UV would only provide half of a bar (See any Max UV on a shield). It also wouldn't account for the fact it has less normal defense now, or the manner in which I'm not the only person to have noticed this. Although if you wish to check for yourself feel free, I dunno if Dani still has his shield since I think he's quitting but I believe Unity has one and there's surely others.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 07:36

Asukalan

Did you took a screenshot of

Did you took a screenshot of that?

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 07:39

Alice-In-Pyroland

I didn't since at the time I

I didn't since at the time I didn't think to check the wiki stats to cross reference until after I'd already closed the inspect window, although Lobsterhime on the wiki claims to have http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Talk:Darkfang_Shield. Dunno who he is on the forums or whether or not he reads here though.

If anyone whom has the shield wants to step in provide a screen themsleves it'd be much appreciated!

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 09:10

Bigfootm

What Dark Ritual?

If they added fire resist, then it's basically a Wise Owlite Shield now. I know a few people who have one, I'll ask them later.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 11:34

Alice-In-Pyroland

Well look is upon us I got a

Well luck is upon us I got a screen

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 10:15

Nicoya-Kitty

Ah, it matches the

Ah, it matches the description now. Neat.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 10:22

Sawkush

Mhm....

I really hope that either they become more avaiable or have a 5 star version.... though it would be nice to keep them rare.... my dreams of getting this beautiful shield are only a vision for now.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 12:00

Narfle

hmm.

My guess is that we'll be seeing a lot more of them relatively soon. There was that "what's Ian working on?" pic making the rounds over the holidays, and it would make sense that the darkfang would be a boss token item with a 5* upgrade like the blackened crest/CoA for vana.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 12:37

#10

Tom-Awsm

I find it annoying that this

I find it annoying that this is so similar to the Owlite series.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 12:48

#11

Alice-In-Pyroland

I'm actually curious as to

I'm actually curious as to what this means, since assuming the upgraded stage is in line with the CoA defensively the only difference between it and the Grey Owlite will be more normal defense and less elemental, unlike the CoA vs Dread Skelly where they actually offer different status protection.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 13:58

#12

Nicoya-Kitty

It's possible that if they

It's possible that if they extend darkfang to 5* they might add some other buff to it. I just hope that, if they do, it's something that will benefit gunners and bombers, since swordies already have the snarby shield line.

A blanket Med CTR buff might be nice. It'd benefit gunners who use autoguns, alchemers or catalyzers, and obviously any bomber. It'd also be in keeping with the gremlin roots, as gremlin bombers don't have to charge their bombs, and the darkfang thwackers have that lovely spin attack that always seems to come out of nowhere.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 14:49

#13

Bopp

wow, overpowered

Nicoya-Kitty, you're proposing that the shield give Medium CTR to all weapons? This would be way out of line with all other offensive bonuses, unless the shield also had terrible drawbacks. Look at Mad Bomber, Fallen, etc. They have weaker offensive bonuses and/or serious drawbacks. And wouldn't it benefit swords too? A gun CTR or a bomb CTR would be much more appropriate.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 15:52

#14

Nicoya-Kitty

@Bopp Is it really all that

@Bopp Is it really all that overpowered though? The BTS trades off only a small amount of protection vs Aegis or RJ for a med sword damage vs everything bonus, and similarly for the 5* wolver pieces compared to their non-buffed counterparts (Azure/RJ, Grey Feather, Dread Skelly). Deadshot has a blanket undead buff with no negatives whatsoever.

Applying the CTR to all three weapons vs just guns and/or bombs I could go either way on. I'm more interested in seeing guns and bombs getting the buff than swords being excluded.

I think losing a small amount of defence vs the Grey Owlite would be appropriate, but I'd leave it up to the developers to figure out what would be most appropriate there. My point was mostly that there were things the devs could do to differentiate this hypothetical 5* darkfang from the GoS.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 17:11

#15

Bopp

maybe we don't really disagree

"Applying the CTR to all three weapons vs just guns and/or bombs I could go either way on."

I hope you agree that a blanket CTR Medium is far more powerful than just a bomb CTR Medium or a gun CTR Medium. Right? That's all I'm saying is overpowered --- the blanket CTR Medium. What you "could go either way on" is the crux of my argument.

I might be missing some, but off the top of my head the only armor/shields with such offensive power are:
* Swiftstrike Buckler (blanket ASI High, but terrible 3-star protection)
* Crown/Armor of the Fallen (blanket ASI low, but curse and fiend penalty)
* Chaos Cowl/Cloak (blanket damage bonus Low, but seven status penalties)
* Mad Bomber Mask/Suit (bomb damage and CTR Medium, but four status penalties)
See what I mean? Blanket offensive bonuses come with big drawbacks.

Even though I'm mainly into swords, I too would like to see gunners and bombers get a little more attention.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 18:41

#16

Nicoya-Kitty

From a pure statistics point

From a pure statistics point of view it would be very powerful, yes. I'm just not quite seeing the real-world loadout where it would be OP.

On the gun side, there's generally only two types of gunners looking for CTR: blitz gunners in FSC and pure gunners using Alchemers and Catalyzers. For the former, a blanket CTR would be very strong as both the DA and the Brandishes that are popular in FSC benefit greatly from CTR, and the obvious benefits for the blitz usage on trolljans and Vana. For the latter, though, a pure gunner isn't going to be hugely concerned with sword or bomb CTR.

On the bomb side, one might think that a brandish+vortex player would benefit greatly from the dual CTR, but in reality it doesn't buy you all that much over having no CTR since the timing is fairly forgiving. A DA/Brandish+Status player might see more benefit, but the boost over having only sword CTR would be fairly minimal.

As for a gun+bomb user, well, I haven't actually met any.

We can also compare desirability.

Let's say the shield does only gun CTR. It'll still be highly desirable in FSC for the fire/normal/elemental protection and the blitz charges. For pure gunners, it will of course lose very little save for the occasional Levi charge.

If it did only bomb CTR, it would still be highly desirable for status bombers (shiver in FSC, fire/shock in RJP) and obviously for pure bombers as well.

If we look more closely at the examples you list, too, for the most part the tradeoffs aren't exactly drawbacks.

The swiftstrike, for example, needs far less protection because the ASI will allow you to go full combo on monsters more frequently to interrupt their attacks.

The Fallen set takes a fiend penalty, but the curse is just traded with fire and ASI arguably makes devilites and greavers a lot easier to deal with.

On the Mad side, the max CTR you get with it helps keep status-inflicting things safely away from you, so you're much less likely to get burned/shocked/frozen/poisoned in the first place.

The Chaos Cloak is probably a good example of doing the tradeoffs entirely wrong. Virtually nobody uses it because the damage bonus doesn't help counteract the status weaknesses.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 20:16

#17

Bopp

good points

I think that three constituencies would love having blanket CTR:

* FSC players like me (DA, Blitz, Shivermist), although lack of fire makes Darkfang not ideal for FSC.

* Pure gunners with Leviathan, because the main selling point of Leviathan Blade is its charge attack.

* Pure bombers with Leviathan, for the same reason.

You're probably right, that other constituencies wouldn't be interested. But these three constituencies are pretty big. Your other points about Swiftstrike/Fallen/Mad Bomber/Chaos are reasonable.

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 20:26

#18

Psycho-Dani

Ohi there

Hi there, I'm Danizpsycho lol (This is my non-steam alt, so no denying :U) and I was talking to Kuger the other day, and he said that he'd been pestering 3O to add the fire proofing since in the description it said it was fireproof. The change, I honestly can't say, it was probably in the fall season, when I last saw one it had only shock, and when I bought mine it had fire and shock, so that's a 4-month period I can narrow it down too, and frankly it was kinda nexcessary, or at least Kuger would say that.

And in all honesty, I like it the way it is, not as a functional shield (I'll be saying otherwise when I eventually rol MAX Shadow, not med), but more as a collector's item. But, if anything, it should give an all-round damage bonus to construct, as it would be kinda neat, and fits in with the theme. That and there's not much construct-based gear out there.

Also if you want I can de-heat my shield and upload it to the wiki, although I dunno if I can get the UV off without GM help or anything o.o

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 20:27

#19

Sawkush

I would say CTR Low

Is more favorable. CTR is obviously the best UV (in my opinion, other may prefer ASI) so CTR low woould be a nice bonus. THough I dont belive we should get far into this because I think the shield being more available and upgrader is far off from now ( unless they finally add Tinkinzar [and finally open the core] or create some other new boss).

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Darkfang Shield stat change?