Spiral Knights - Which would be better for me? shiver mist or heavy deconstructor?

Which would be better for me? shiver mist or heavy deconstructor?

15 replies [Last post]

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 22:25

Liveice

I always seem to have the most trouble with constructs and I got a deconstructor to deal with them and it works quit nice but now I am looking to go from a tier 2 player to a tier 3,

My current tier 3 set in progress is as follows,

1. Helmet,
Grey feather cowl with medium shadow uv,
currently still a magic hood with a shadow uv but got the elemental hood recipe and miracle hood recipe and all materials but not the cowl recipe

2. Shield ,
Royal jelly shield, don't know if I want a uv yet so perhaps I will have none and see if I get one in crafting.
For now all I have of this is the brute jelly I am currently using and all the materials ( I collect mats so I got them I am sure )

3. Armor,
Sklover with medium shadow uv,
currently a wolver coat with uv but should be dusker soon and also do have ashtail coat recipe

4. Trinket 1,
Elite bomb focus module, (essential, you will see why)
Already complete and love it

5. Trinket 2,
Not sure, probably elite quick strike module, also looking at a few other possibilities though.

6. Weapon 1,
Combustor with medium uv against constructs,
It's currently a level 7 blazebrand I am using on runs, do not yet have combustor recipie

7. Weapon 2,
Ionized rock salt bomb with med uv on gremlins, (this is why the charge module is essential)
well I have everything and already tried to make it.... but for some reason the transmuter chose the wrong salt bomb so I will have to cough up another 3 to 4 hundred ce at some point to try again.

8. Weapon 3,
This is where the heavy deconstructor or shiver mist belongs,

Originally I was going to go with a heavy deconstructor with a medium or high uv against undead but then I got to thinking that my combustor will be rather good at constructs anyways and if I could hold them still with ice while I charge it that would be very effective BUT when I got a freezing vaporizer and was going to use it in lock down and was shocked at how long the charge time was, I mean yeah I am going be using an ionized rock salt but I had always known about the dreaded charge time, but I had never heard about the freezing vaporizer taking so long, and I have heard that all the 4 and 5 star bombs take longer then their 2 or 3 star forms which makes sense, so how long does the charge of a shiver mist take even with charge module? 1 of my 3 weapons being a bit slow I can take but I don't think I can deal with 2 of my 3 weapons being slow and my ISB is staying.

So anyways hope somebody here can give me some constructive feed back, thanks all

Sun, 01/01/2012 - 23:06

Dark-Fantasy

Charge Time Reduction

The role of heat plays in Charge Time Reduction. Level 5 heat gives off a low bonus while level 10 heat gives off a medium bonus.
The freezing vaporizer charge may look long because the bomb might not be heated up.

I am a big fan of using the shivermist as it allows crowd control. This could be helpful in many parties. Shivermist is a long-term investment and I highly recommend it.

I am not fully sure about the Heavy Deconstructor because I have not used one yet. If you are planning to take a route from the blast bomb, you would want to take the Nitronome.
1. More damage
2. Heavy Deconstructor stops at 4* while Nitronome expands to 5*
3. By the looks of the pictures on the wiki, Nitronome seem to have a larger radius.

Mon, 01/02/2012 - 00:05

Nicoya-Kitty

The Nitronome is indeed the

The Nitronome is indeed the only bomb in the blast tree worth crafting. Thankfully it's not too late to abandon your deconstructor and get back on the right track.

The ISB, on the other hand, is truly the bomb of regret. Please don't craft another one. The DBB is superior in every way that it's possible to be superior for the role of a piercing bomb.

You'll probably want a shivermist eventually, so crafting one now won't be a waste. I should note here that the shivermist charges faster than the ISB.

The Grey Feather Cowl with a shadow UV is splendid, and should serve you very well, as will the Skolver.

Most folk prefer the BTS over the jelly shields due to the sword damage bonus. Again, it's not too late to make the switch. That said, it's worth crafting an elemental and shadow shield first before re-crafting a pierce shield. You'll want to have all three eventually.

I notice you don't have any shadow weapons. You might look into crafting an Acheron, it's a delightful shadow sword, though you might also be interested in a Faust. You also don't have a pierce sword, though a DBB can substitute here for one dedicated to the art of bombing.

Mon, 01/02/2012 - 03:58

Fradow

Some additional notes on what

Some additional notes on what has been said :
- for Piercing shield, Jelly shield is sub-par. On one hand, BTS will give swordies bonus, on the other hand, Ironmight/Aegis will have better overall defense (the sleep resistance on Jelly shield is useless)
- you seem to be bomber oriented, with some swords. Why not switch the Grey Feather Cowl for a Volcanic demo Helm ? You'll loose the shock resistance, but you'll not have that negative stun resistance, and most importantly you'll have a bomb CTR Med, freeing a trinket for another use.
- if you get Nitronome, be warned, it's more of a solo bomb. Most people will hate you if you use it in a party.
- as said Nicoya, you may want to consider some shadow and piercing weapons.

Mon, 01/02/2012 - 07:41

Bopp

read up

If you haven't already, read the wiki page "Damage" to learn monster vulnerabilities and resistances. Then you will understand why and how to deploy piercing, elemental, and shadow weapons, as the other responders have advised.

Read the Bomber Guide on the wiki. It compares the three 5-star blast bomb variants. It argues quite forcefully against Heavy Deconstructor. I think it also greatlly favors RSS over Ionized.

For future reference in this and other threads, your loadout would be easier to understand if it were listed more concisely. People giving you advice don't care much about which recipes or UVs you have; those are details that don't affect your planning much.

Grey Feather Cowl
Skolver Coat
Royal Jelly Shield

Elite Bomb Focus module
Elite Quick Strike module?

Combuster
Ionized Rock Salt Bomb
Heavy Deconstructor or Shivermist Buster

Mon, 01/02/2012 - 13:13

Liveice

well as for my hood and

well as for my hood and shield those actually go together, see I like the elemental protection of the magic line to go with the piercing protection from my wolver line not to mention the status protection, with skolver the whole combo protects me from ice, fire, and shock, only thing I am open to is poison.

And of course with shadow on uv on both I have my shadow protection.

Only down side is the negative stun status BUT since most stun status causes being slow in nature like lumbar swings if the stun protection is in my shield I can usually put it up in time.

As for my isb, well see with a gremlin UV it not only is my piercing wep, its also a mild shadow weapon,

It already takes care of fiends because of piercing, and then full on beast because it does not have elemental and for jelly the high bonus and piercing cancel each other out leaving it like its neutral but when placed right I can get multiple hits making it very effective, and of course gremlins are also neutral to piercing and like ever thing else neutral to normal so with a bonus it tips the balance, this bomb is now good against 4 monster families so its worth a minor time penalty in my book.

As for nitrodome I will buy one eventually as I use super blast bomb in lock down to shove people off control points BUT I need more help on constructs,

I think I will go for a shiver mist with either a bonus on construct or undead, or maybe both if I can find one but that would be difficult an probably out of my current tier 2 budget range.

Mon, 01/02/2012 - 16:12

Bopp

shivermist buster not really about damage

Shivermist Buster, Ash of Agni, Venom Veiler, Stagger Storm, and Voltaic Tempest are not really about doing immediate damage to monsters. They're about inflicting status on monsters. I don't think that a damage bonus would be worth much on them. Instead, just go for charge time reduction.

Your armor sounds fine (normal, elemental, piercing, fire, shock, freeze, stun penalty). I strongly agree with other posters that Barbarous Thorn Shield is preferable to Royal Jelly Shield, if you're using any swords at all.

Your first two weapons are fine (elemental sword, normal/piercing bomb). I don't understand why you say you need more help on constructs. Combuster is awesome against them. So your argument in favor of Heavy Deconstructor over Nitronome does not convince me at all. Furthermore, HD/Nitronome is a bit redundant with the ISB, because they're all immediate damage bombs. If you're going to carry a second bomb, maybe it should be a status-inflicting bomb, and in particular a crowd control bomb such as Shivermist Buster or Voltaic Tempest.

Mon, 01/02/2012 - 17:56

Yeriq

Nitronome is DA Bomb

Go with the Nitronome because,

1. It pushes everything - so if you get a Volcanic Demo Helm + Bomb Focus + L10 heat you can charge one in about 1 sec. This will allow you do to cool things like stand in a middle of an arena and blow everything away or put the hurt on the Jelly King by pushing it around like a tub of jello(you have no idea how fun it is.) watch out for gun puppies though.
2. It interrupts
3. It goes 5-star

And as for ISB, I'd rather get a spine cone or RSS.

I do agree with Bopp, the second bomb slot should be a status bomb since you have a direct damage bomb. The Shivermist has great crowd control but not-so-great dps, the Ash has no crowd control but great dps. Voltaic tempest has good crowd control (the twitching interrupts medders) and good dps.

Go with Shivermist so can control how many constructs are chasing you and remember attack from the back if they are frozen in place. They can't chase you but they certain can still smack you if you don't something stupid like swing your Combustor in front of them.

Mon, 01/02/2012 - 19:41

Liveice

Well as for the damage of my

Well as for the damage of my ISB, its not just about damage, its about the TYPE of damage, as I said the way I have it my particular isb works as BOTH my piercing weapon and my shadow weapon, and it does also inflect shock as a minor bonus. Of course for my tier 2 runs I will always keep my 3* rock salt, isb will only be used in tier 3.

As for my shield I need that for the stun protection as I get lag anyways and when you mix that with the stun condition sometimes you might as well just stand still and die.

And as for why I want the uv on my shiver mist is because I think ( though I could be wrong ) with a uv it will hold certain types of monster longer.
But at very least I am certain I have seen monsters that are weak to elemental get frozen faster while some times other families might even be able either walk farther in just taking minor damage but not the status or if its already fading actually walk through it.

The uv even if not holding them longer should better insure that they get frozen in place and keep the radius area "hot (or should I say cold?) " to them a little longer.

I think I will be going with a uv against constructs since most undead are already slow as the zombie line with the exception of kats, though if any monster needed pinning down it would be them.

Mon, 01/02/2012 - 19:48

Fehzor

The only thing that h.

The only thing that h. deconstructor is good for is the chance that it will get buffed someday (made to work like the gremlin bombs, perhaps?). Why you're even arguing about which is better is beyond me.

That being said, shiver is still more useful than nitronome.

Mon, 01/02/2012 - 20:31

#10

Bopp

wrong about UV on Shivermist, I think

Liveice, you've clearly thought about all of this, and you raise good points. But I think that your Shivermist Buster plans are based on incorrect assumptions. Having a damage bonus on a Shivermist does not lengthen or intensify the freeze. It just increases the damage that the bomb does on its initial explosion. If I'm wrong about this, someone will surely correct me.

The one thing, that will help your Shivermist freeze more things more often, is your being able to drop it really rapidly because you have big CTR.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 03:02

#11

Wu-Wei

Before you start placing

Before you start placing shivermists all over the place, let me tell you what other people do.

They stop playing and watch you break the kiting pattern with you placing shivermists everywhere. Then they watch as those monsters thaw and they all start attacking you coz you did the damage to them. From all directions since you froze them in different places! Ok, so when the shivermist spammer is finally dead, we can finish this battle! Yay!

Personally I think the Ash of Agni is more versatile and rather get that than either 2 you mentioned. Works pretty well on constructs too. Unless of course you are in a fire themed level.

Don't break kiting patterns in arena and boss fights, unless you are trying to dodge the Vanaduke, or Tier 3 wolvers. You will be the first to die.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 06:36

#12

Bopp

very true

What Xutak said is quite true. Freeze hinders kiting. In a bad party this doesn't matter, because everyone is ruining everyone else's kiting anyway. But a good party can kite well, unless somebody is freezing things. Now I use Shivermist only in FSC and in certain fiend levels, and only sparingly. It really is good against Vanaduke, however.

Tue, 01/03/2012 - 15:49

#13

Liveice

Thank Bopp, I have tried to

Thank Bopp, I have tried to build the best set I can for my style and if the uv really does only effect the initial damage then I would indeed only want the charge reduction variables.

As for fire I already will have a combustor,

And as far as spamming that wouldn't really work with my plans and style, my plan is not for the freezing to be the damage, my combustor is the kill button, the shiver mist only holds them down for me, I have seen it where there are frozen monsters scattered about and it can be bothersome, for the most part this would only be on small groups and even in arenas it would only be one at a time until I get a chance to kill what my bomb has caught, so if there is one large group of monsters after us most of them should be stuck in there or at least when we come around we will be to their backs so my combustor can finish them.

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 14:19

#14

Liveice

Just thought I would add one last post to this thread.

I did manage to find a freezing vap. MK2 with low CTR. about only 20k, so as that is close to the regular price and I do know what a medium charge reduction can do to the price of most any bomb and I am still on a tier 2 earning rate for crowns I snapped it right up.

Now as for how it has worked out it has been marvelous, watching 4 mechaknights or whatever else get stuck then swinging around with a charge from blazebrand at the correct angle and watching all four break and heap in a pile then *pop*, *pop*, *pop*, *pop*, nice stack of loot spreads out on the floor is very satisfying indeed,

not to mention being able to bust to lumbars and set a third on fire at in the same attack.

But a couple of interesting notes are that undead seem to stay frozen shorter then consturcts frozen at the same time, seems constucts are somehow more vulnerable, not sure what to make of it.
And as for charge time I do find it interesting that unheated but with focus mod. the vaporizer was only a about half a step faster then my ion.

So a normal freezing vap.mk2 that is heated is only half a step ahead of ion with an elite focus module,

here are the screen shots of the test,

1.
The bombs:

Ion rock salt close up
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198046005841/screenshot/61497322...

Freezing vap. MK2
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198046005841/screenshot/61497322...

2.
Charge times

charge starting point
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198046005841/screenshot/61497322...

Freeze vap MK2 end placement
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198046005841/screenshot/61497322...

Ion rock salt end placement
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198046005841/screenshot/61497322...

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 15:03

#15