No respect for bombers.

19 replies [Last post]
Awesomest
Legacy Username

I'm a pure bomber and I'm really feeling it.

Now, I know bombs aren't as good 1v1 as swords. I also know that swords pretty much obliterate as 1v1 weapons, and their damage output is nothing to laugh at. Sword users can fight almost independently—but it seems like sword users think this independence makes them superior to bombers. It starts with the newbs, who don't know better than to whack enemies wherever they see them. But when you're playing with people who are already equipped for T2 and even T3, it's kind of frustrating to see that your team doesn't have an ounce of teamwork, and it's even worse to set a bomb only to see your other three party members jump into the blast radius and knock everything out of it with one huge charge attack.

And it doesn't just end at horrible teamwork. Not only are bombers ignored as damage dealers in parties; they're also frowned upon and discriminated. I can't count the number of times I've been told that a sword is stronger than bombs, and that I'm useless because I'm weak. I've argued with guildies about my usefulness as a bomber, and I've even been kicked out of a Royal Jelly run because I choose not to use a sword.

This doesn't actually bother me, but I find it rather interesting how elitist sword users can be. I'm intrigued by WHY the SK community seems to think this way. So, here are some questions to spark discussion:

Do you use, or have you used bombs?
Do you think swords are more useful than bombs?
As a swordsman, do you normally fight independently or do you put a solid effort to incorporate teamwork into your battles?
Do you see pure bombers/gunners as a viable Knight path?
Do you think that pure bombers (and even pure gunners) are in some way inferior to someone using a sword?

Answer honestly. :)

Toshiaki's picture
Toshiaki
I have used bombs. However, I

I have used bombs. However, I currently don't because
of small amount of weapon slots and I'm trying to get recipes for upgrades first.

Swords are indeed more powerful than bombs imo, however, bombs are
a nice support to have.

Freezing Vaporizers of the Haze Bomb line are a nice example, freeze the enemies,
Charge a Sword, and use on the frozen enemies.

Naturally, I would fight independently while using a Sword, however I would try to aim
away from my teammates so that the enemies does not hit them when I knock the enemy away

I seen quite a few pure Bombers and Gunners, they obviously know how to use those
weapons better than most other people

If used correctly, bombs and guns can be superior than a sword, for instance,
those annoying Arenas that for some odd reason noone seems to survive in,
Bombs and Guns are the nice choice as you can circle around and not get hit.

MrLLahan
Legacy Username
I haven't gotten far enough

I haven't gotten far enough to really consider weapon and armor types to use and that kind of shenanigans, but I personally think a "pure *weapon here*" user is rather silly, simply because it lacks the diversity to adapt to situations.

That said, bombs are incredible weapons when used in combination with team members. Course this depends on your teammates, which seems to be part of your problem. I personally use a sword and a gun, and I try to be a team player in trying to keep enemies from attacking my allies by using the third hit on my sword to stop their attack, and just trying to be friendly and helpful. I haven't played with someone who uses pure bombs though, and I am interested in seeing how that works!

I tend to solo the dungeons because I'm something of a loner (and it's easier since the enemies lack their bonus health they get from more than 1 player) so I use a sword/gun combo, since the gun is way more useful than a bomb is in dealing with turrets. Though, a bomb would be really handy in dealing with large masses, so I guess it is more of a situational thing!

That's my 2 cents! I think this topic poses an interesting question and the aspect of teamwork dynamics.

Huntr
Dual Bomber here!

I use dual bombs and I'm loving the new feel of gameplay. Yeah I do notice that teammates knock enemies out of the blast range, so that's why I insist on my main bomb series being the crystal bomb series. Seriously, at T2 the minimum damage I see per shard is like 41, and I can usually nail 2-3 shards on an enemy with the rest of shards usually hitting multiple other enemies. Once I can get my freeze bomb with a higher blast radius I'll REALLY be in business to walk right up to enemies and use a well placed shards bomb. So satisfying when the enemy walks on top and all my shards hit lol.

One more thing, it amuses me that my shards outrange most guns at this point.

Negimasonic's picture
Negimasonic
Do you use, or have you used

Do you use, or have you used bombs?
I'm still in a weapons swapping phase but I do plan to keep on upgrading my Freezing Vaporizer (currently Mk II). I love the freezing effect.

Do you think swords are more useful than bombs?
Situational. I think its a team thing. I wouldn't want to exclusively rely on bombs as if I get surrounded...well that's game over. I can't charge fast enough. At least with a calibur I may be able to use the charge to create distance. Alone, I'll probably use my bomb exclusively or at least freeze them then go in with the sword. The reason why I may rely on bombs first is because there's that weapon swapping glitch that can make things rather awkward...
With a team, especially if I've seen that they're pretty good, I'll just bring out the freezing vaporizer and let them do their thing, I'll freeze whatever and they'll kill whatever. Knocking it out of the blast radius isn't a big deal because usually something else falls into it (because for a few seconds after the initial blast, anything in the range can be frozen even if they didn't get hit by the direct damage). They can't really ruin my plan since as long as something is frozen or takes damage, that's a win for me :D

As a swordsman, do you normally fight independently or do you put a solid effort to incorporate teamwork into your battles?
Since I'm both...once more, this is a situational question.

Do you see pure bombers/gunners as a viable Knight path?
Yes, but you have to put effort into it I'm not willing to. I like variety. And especially since I'm still using just two weapon slots, I really can't do everything I want with just two bombs.

Do you think that pure bombers (and even pure gunners) are in some way inferior to someone using a sword?
Obviously you are missing the advantages of being able to do simplier, quicker damage. But the same thing can be said of even a pure swordsman who lacks range attacks (non charged). Pure anything is a limiter. Doesn't matter if its bomb, gun, or sword.

Cobalt
Legacy Username
WHEEE

Ok, I have been using a Heavy Deconstructor now-a-days, and It works great for groups, It weakens a wide range of monsters really fast. On the Swords VS. Bombs thing, I think it depends with what kinda sword/bomb. In some cases the sword wins against a status inflicting bomb like the Ash of Agni.

LordHiccup
Legacy Username
~Do you use, or have you used

~Do you use, or have you used bombs?
I have used them, I do have a 4* Fiery Atomizer in my inventory, but I don't use it often because I just have too much fun running around with three swords (Currently a Vile Striker, Cold Iron Carver, and an Avenger) and a standard Blaster. Little bit overkill on the swords? Yes. Is it fun? Hell yes.

~Do you think swords are more useful than bombs?
Depends entirely on the situation.

~As a swordsman, do you normally fight independently or do you put a solid effort to incorporate teamwork into your battles?
I usually try to knock enemies into bombs or away from gunning teammates.

~Do you see pure bombers/gunners as a viable Knight path?
Sure, although it's a bit harder to solo as a bomber early on, and gunners would have trouble with enemies that dodge projectiles.

~Do you think that pure bombers (and even pure gunners) are in some way inferior to someone using a sword?
Again, it depends entirely on the situation. Trying to solo with bombs? Good luck with that. Trying to fight enemies that dodge using only guns? Have fun. In a group with at least one guy using Swords? Gunners and Bombers are both awesome to have with you.

Njthug's picture
Njthug
Do you use, or have you used

Do you use, or have you used bombs?
Yes, I have used bombs, and still use bombs currently.
Do you think swords are more useful than bombs?
Matters, who your fighting if your alone etc.
As a swordsman, do you normally fight independently or do you put a solid effort to incorporate teamwork into your battles?
If your with a team its better to have teamwork since it will go much faster. For example, my friend uses his shivermist to help the sword players out to kill monsters faster. If I team up with friends during Fire Storm I use my Blast series bomb to make sure the skellies stay away from our area in certain areas so they can gun makes us take less damage and 20x's faster.
Do you see pure bombers/gunners as a viable Knight path?
Pure anything is not smart in my view since you do need a mix set only because it allows you to kill all the monsters more easily.
Do you think that pure bombers (and even pure gunners) are in some way inferior to someone using a sword?
Yes, only because swords do more damage.

Sketchytexas
Legacy Username
Do you use, or have you used

Do you use, or have you used bombs?
I used them in Tier 1 but was put off by their slow Speed at earlier Star levels. I recently found a Radiant Sun Shards recipe and a Crystal Bomb recipe though, so when I get that last recipe (Sun Shards) I'll probably try them again.

Do you think swords are more useful than bombs?
In most situations, yes. For crowd control I think they are slightly better, not necessarily in dealing a large amount of damage to a bunch of enemies, but the knockback from swords really helps prevent damage. However, if you're trying to finish an Arena, I think bombs are superior because of the Run-and-Plant tactic. You can take virtually 0 damage this way.

As a swordsman, do you normally fight independently or do you put a solid effort to incorporate teamwork into your battles?
I'm a teamwork kind of guy, so I usually use an Avenger to herd enemies into a corner or push off encroaching enemies with some knockback charges, for example if a teammate is about to get blindsided by a Jelly, I'll knock it off a ways. If I see a bomb with a relatively large radius I will try to push enemies into that radius.

Do you see pure bombers/gunners as a viable Knight path?
Honestly, no, not for solo unless you're very skilled with them. There just aren't that many great bombs out there. Some enemies are fast enough to skip right through the radius without getting damaged (such as Wolvers, especially the mini-bosses). If built for boss runs (I can only speak about the Royal Jelly at this point due to my inability to run T3) bombers can be extremely useful, thinning out horde numbers and getting the boss hit with status effects like Poison or Fire. Against most normal enemies, I don't think it's viable, at least as a solo build. As a Team-support build I think it's pretty viable though.

Do you think that pure bombers (and even pure gunners) are in some way inferior to someone using a sword?
Pure DPS-wise definitely, at least in 1v1. It just doesn't seem like there's as much of an emphasis on Bomb-only users as there is on Gun- and Sword-only players. Like I said before, in a team-support situation I think pure bombers are a huge help, as long as they know what they're doing.

Boojangels
Legacy Username
Why not use a sword and a

Why not use a sword and a bomb?

NineVolt
Legacy Username
Do you use, or have you used

Do you use, or have you used bombs?:
Yes, I have used bombs before.

Do you think swords are more useful than bombs?:
Somewhat. I tend to keep a sword for one slot and a gun for the other. I'm planning on using a bomb instead of the gun later on.

As a swordsman, do you normally fight independently or do you put a solid effort to incorporate teamwork into your battles?:
I tend to prefer the independent route because quite frankly, I'm a terrible team player. Doesn't matter what weapon I use. It's because I'm not used to cooperating with others in MMORPGs. But when I do get forced into a team, I end up beating myself up when I'm defeated (usually the first to go *sweatdrop*) because I felt like I'm a burden to them.

Do you see pure bombers/gunners as a viable Knight path?:
Yes. It's all up to the players on how they want to play. Fine with me as long as you're not taking the no-goodnik route by cheating.

Do you think that pure bombers (and even pure gunners) are in some way inferior to someone using a sword?:
Not at all.

OnmyojiOmn
Legacy Username
"I'm a pure bomber" No you

"I'm a pure bomber"

No you aren't.

Vitenka
Legacy Username
I've used bombs, and stopped

I've used bombs, and stopped because I'm not very good at it. I do agree with you on the pain of people running in and knocking enemies back though - it's the same for me as (primarily) a gunner.

Often it's just lag though - they may not see your bomb in time to decide not to hit the thing.

As a gunner - I *love* it when a good bomb user is in the party. They're doing the same thing as me, trying to lure monsters to particular spots, they can keep them away from us, and they've usually got good status effects.

And wolvers don't ******ing dodge bombs!

But I think you can't avoid swords. You can't deal with the healers fast enough with guns or bombs, for starters.

Probably the ideal party has a gunner, a bomber, a knockback sword and a fast sword user in it.

Gratiano
Legacy Username
It's tough

Bombs take a certain amount of finesse to use right, I think. They're definitely the toughest to use.
I can see why people would frown on them.

I myself have tried bombs, but opted to go back to the sword/gun combo because it was easier for me.

Don't really have anything against them, myself. I try not to interfere when my teammates are setting up a blast, and I'll even try knocking them into a nearby bomb! It's tricky, though, because I use the heavier swords and they have a lot of knock-back.

Kaybol
Legacy Username
Kill it with fire!!

Do you use, or have you used bombs?
Yes, I currently use a 4* Fiery Atomizer.

Do you think swords are more useful than bombs?
No. I think they're equally useful. It depends entirely on the situation and the person.

As a swordsman, do you normally fight independently or do you put a solid effort to incorporate teamwork into your battles?
As a swordsman I try to pay attention to the party: are there any bombs I can slap the enemies into? Are there any gunners being pursued that could use a little less heat on them? Are there any other swordfighters that I can team up with, to finish off enemies quicker? But once I picked a target, I forget all about that and just try to finish them off.

Do you see pure bombers/gunners as a viable Knight path?
I guess it's viable but it's not the best choice. You're just making it harder on yourself for no obvious reason. Yes, bombs are awesome, I have great fun with them. Currently I use a Vile Striker next to my Fiery Atomizer and I decided not to get my extra weapon slot yet... well there are situations where I seriously miss my gun! If you ever tried to take out a group of rocket puppies then you know what I mean. I always like to say that every monster has a different best approach in order to beat them. Trying to do everything with my Fiery bomb will work in most cases, but it won't be the best option in all cases. Same as applying my Vile Striker isn't always the smartest way to go about things. Same as leaving my gun at home sometimes plays out as a crippling choice of weapons.

That's mostly about soloing though. When you're in a party where there are non-bombers, then I guess you can get away with being a pure bomber/gunner, simply because your team mates are covering for the lacks in your arsenal. And that's fair, that's one of the powers of teamplay.

Do you think that pure bombers (and even pure gunners) are in some way inferior to someone using a sword?
That's comparing apples with pears. I think pure bombers/gunners are not inferior to pure swordsmen. But I do think they're inferior to someone who uses all three. But again this counts mostly for single player party. In multiplayer parties with party members to distract monsters, you can usually overcome the drawbacks to bombs/guns and become really effective. With my fire bomb I usually end up getting all the monster aggro on me and that's exactly what I want. They all chase me, constantly stepping into the bombs I set for them, while teammates with swords/guns can easily pick them off while they're distacted. Spiral Knights has beautiful team dynamics.

That said, I only use a bomb with very little (if any) knockback, which makes it easy for my team members to keep finding their targets. On the other hand sword users can make your bomb pretty useless. For instance I hate Spur users. Their standard attack makes them step forward very quickly and every hit has knockback. Sure, this is great against gremlins, who seriously don't stand a chance against this sword (and who are quite resistant to elemental/fire damage and are most likely to get a hit in on me, even when I'm playing ranged). But seriously they slap every single monster out of my blast radius. I tend to call it the uncooperative sword.

All in all as a bomber I think you can add a lot of value to a team. Just as long as people let you. :) Hitting groups of monsters from a safe distance is something that sword users don't have. When the number of monsters is down to one or two though, I tend to finish them off with my Striker. Confusius say: don't use cannon to kill mosquito.

Hoogie
Legacy Username
-Do you use, or have you used

-Do you use, or have you used bombs?-
Yes. Back in beta, I had a Nitronome and a Fiery Atomizer (which was back then known as a Fiery Vaporizer Mk III)

-Do you think swords are more useful than bombs?-
No. They are useful in separate fields. Sure the usefulness of bombs is not as apparent as that of swords, but once you see their main purpose (which is usually danger rooms and arenas) you'll be amazed.

-As a swordsman, do you normally fight independently or do you put a solid effort to incorporate teamwork into your battles?-
Teamwork is a must. It's what makes Guild such an awesome guild. Bombers crowd control, Swordies knock back, and gunners... well gunner stay safe. Really safe.

-Do you see pure bombers/gunners as a viable Knight path?-
Bombers, not so much. When you're stuck in a crowd and your shield won't repel enough, you have to bring out a sword. Gunners... maybe, but runs will take longer than expected.

-Do you think that pure bombers (and even pure gunners) are in some way inferior to someone using a sword?-
Not at all. When us swordies are down for the count, we need to rely on bombers and gunners.

Kawaii_Desu
Legacy Username
"Do you use, or have you used

"Do you use, or have you used bombs?"
I use bombs from time to time.
Currently I own a Graviton Bomb, Irontech Bomb, and about 10 Blast Bombs (4 of which are UV's.)

"Do you think swords are more useful than bombs?"
Well swords are the main damage dealer, but swords aren't necessarily meant for support.
Statuses like Ice, Lightning, Poison... there's a tiny fraction of swords that can deal these statuses, and not many of them can do support like a bomb or gun can.

"As a swordsman, do you normally fight independently or do you put a solid effort to incorporate teamwork into your battles?"
I try to work with people. As a man that carries 2 swords, I'll need that help to get me do the best with my swords.

"Do you see pure bombers/gunners as a viable Knight path?"
Of course pure bombers can exist! Gunners though... it's a bit murky for them.
Of course they would exist only in parties. Going solo without at LEAST one sword will most likely get you killed.

"Do you think that pure bombers (and even pure gunners) are in some way inferior to someone using a sword?"
Is it wrong for a Pure Bomber/Gunner to carry a sword for the occasional backup?
They're superior in one way, and that is status effects for support. As far as I know, the only status these do not have is Curse (that's why you get a faust/gran faust)

Swords are meant for damage.

weems
Legacy Username
It's useless to make

It's useless to make comparisons like:

"A sword is more powerful than a bomb."
or
"A bomb is more powerful than a sword."

Useless and meaningless.

They have different purposes. I use both. In the situations where I'm spamming bombs, they are superior to my sword. Likewise, in the situations where I'm not using bombs, the sword is better.

I would never be able to solo-clear some of the arenas I do without bombs. They simply both have different functions. That is all.

Sated
Legacy Username
I've noticed a lot of the

I've noticed a lot of the same things, but I tend to ignore them. If people who use swords are good with them then they'll do enough damage to make up for their "mistake" and if they're so stupid that they end up getting killed because of a gung-ho attitude, I simply won't revive them.

Niramu
Legacy Username
Having fun is most important.

True, guns, bombs and swords all have their uses. I myself find soloing with a gun/bomb combo is the easiest path. Regardless, the question isn't whether or not the bombs are viable as weapons. They are. If you find yourself having trouble with too many sword pricks, start using the social ignore feature. People who are rude don't get the benefit of nice people's company. Having an opinion isn't a problem, but don't go around trying to force your opinion on others. Just because your weapon is your favorite doesn't mean that everyone needs to follow your example.

Bombs are viable mostly for status effects. They let you focus on defense while the enemies take damage, can't move, can't be healed, or what have you. If you want to play a style of game where you hit the enemy and run for it, bombs are your weapon. Just understand that there are many ways to accomplish a task, and sometimes you may have to let others take the spotlight if you don't want to do anything but bombs. A swarm of gremlin healers is almost impossible to kill without some serious DPS, which bombs just can't provide.