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What happened to orange minerals?

9 replies [Last post]
Sat, 01/07/2012 - 19:31
Versipellis

We all know the minerals, right? There are red ones, blue ones, green ones, yellow ones, purples ones, and... No orange ones for some reason.

Now, I haven't looked into this very thoroughly, I don't know if there might be some reason orange was intentionally left out, and I know that attempting to put it into the game would require lots of work, but this missing sixth element to Cradle has been bugging me for months. Was it considered too similar to red and yellow? Was there just not enough ideas they could do with it? Admittedly, orange doesn't have as many obvious connotations as the other colors, but that's no reason to leave it out.

The other minerals are basically the essence of certain things and ideas, right? According to their in-game descriptions, the red ones represent strength and strong emotions, the blue ones represent knowledge, the green ones represent nature and life, the yellow ones represent wisdom, faith, and zeal, and the purple ones represent chaos and the void. This leaves the question of what orange could represent.

It could serve as a foil to blue and represent the unknown, the pursuit of knowledge, and scientific advancement. Please note that this, though related, is not the same as what blue represents. Also, this would be interesting because blue and orange are contrary colors. However, orange could also represent other things... Maybe greed, gluttony, and the acquisition of wealth and worldly things? Perhaps, but I like my first idea better, and there's more which can be done with it.

Next question has to do with the purpose of minerals in gameplay, and how orange minerals could affect that. The combination of the two minerals with the highest quantity in the strata of gates determine the themes of the levels in those strata. For example, when the more green and red minerals are put into a strata than other minerals, the theme of the levels there will be beast. At least, that's how I understand it. Also, the themes are divided into both mosnter families (beast, slime, construct, etc) and status conditions (fire, freeze, poison, shock). So, given that adding orange minerals would require the addition of five extra themes, one for each other mineral, it would probably make the most sense to add in three monster families and two status conditions, but these would have to be carefully considered due to their effect on gameplay, especially the status conditions.

Possible suggestions for monster families: Eldritch monsters? Put in some tentacle monsters and strange floating shapes and colors and you'd be all set. It would fit well with the 'unknown' theme. Rock monsters or golems? That seems a bit too much like constructs to me, but I suppose it's a thought. Plant monsters? It would be an interesting contrast to beast. 'Rebel' knights who have either decided to assimilate into the clockworks or have just become fed up with the energy system and lack of a paycheck, or a rival organization which has landed on Cradle would be interesting ideas. Just remember not to let people play as them, we don't want this game turning into a WoW clone. Anyway, there are plenty of things which could be done.

As for status conditions, that would be a little harder because we have to keep the gameplay balanced (even though shock is already overpowered compared to other status conditions). Personally, I would like a Water thing just for the interesting levels it could offer, but it would be important to keep in mind the difference between it and Freeze (technically freezing is not restricted to water, but ice seems to be the way it's shown in the game). Also, what would the actual status condition be and what would it do? Maybe players could become waterlogged, which would slow them down and/or lower their defence? That still leaves one status condition left, so what would that be? Curse? Sleep? Another idea would be to make an Explosive theme and add Shellshock as a status condition, but how would it affect players? Make it difficult to control movement for a few seconds? Slow attack speed? Disable shields? I'm just throwing out ideas here.

Obviously I can make no changes to the game myself, and I don't know how well this idea would be received, and I realize that this would likely take an enormous amount to work to implement... But I think it's worth thinking about.

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 03:48
#1
Dagunner's picture
Dagunner
huh???

you lost me at the ideas and emotions thing.
i mean WTF minerals have got NOTHING to do with that. the reason there is no orange mineral is because there is no elemement for it.
red = fire
blue = electricity
green = ice
purple = shadow
yellow = light

thats why those coloured shards are used for those types of crafting (shards are small pieces of minerals even read the description)

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 04:01
#2
Dagunner's picture
Dagunner
and

the rest of it is kinda bad/weird too

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 20:12
#3
Versipellis
Two things:

First, I would like to thank you for the feedback in your second post. I honestly had trouble telling whether this was a good or bad idea, so I just threw it out there.

But in response to your first post, if you read the in-game descriptions of the minerals when they are in your inventory (not the shards, the actual minerals) and go talk to Wegner in the arcade and look at his chart on gate construction, you will see what I was talking about there. Or you could go to the Spiral Knights Wiki pages on Minerals and Gate Construction:

http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Minerals
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Gate_construction

Here are the in-game descriptions of the minerals:

For Crimsonite (red minerals): "A fabled mineral of a fiery, red color said to contain the passion, anger and strength of the life surrounding it. Small pieces of Crimsonite called Red Shards are used in crafting."

For Valestone (green minerals): "A fabled mineral of a vibrant green color said to contain the essence of all natural life. Small pieces of Valestone called Green Shards are used in crafting."

For Moonstone (blue minerals): "A fabled mineral of a brilliant, blue color said to contain the knowledge and origins of all worlds. Small pieces of Moonstone called Blue Shards are used in crafting."

For Luminite (yellow minerals): "A fabled mineral of a radiant, golden color said to contain the faith, wisdom, and zeal of the life surrounding it. Small pieces of Luminite called Light Shards are used in crafting."

For Dark Matter (purple minerals): "A fabled mineral dark and ominous in color said to contain the essences of both chaos and nothingness. Small pieces of Dark Matter called Dark Shards are used in crafting."

Also, the information you posted about what the minerals represented was incorrect. If you look at the chart provided by Wegner in the Arcade and on the Spiral Knights Wiki page on Gate Construction, you will also see that Blue does not, in itself, lead to Shock. A combination of blue and purple does.
Likewise, Fire requires both red and yellow, Freeze requires both green and blue, shadow is a type of damage and therefore not directly associated with minerals as far as I know (though both Undead and Fiends, which both do shadow damage, do need purple minerals for strata to have their themes) and light... Has absolutely no effect on gameplay whatsoever.

Then again, I guess purple is clearly supposed to be associated with shadow (though it doesn't affect my points in my first post) and yellow is clearly supposed to be connected with light. Its name (Luminite) is even derived from the Latin word lumen, which means light.

But really, I'm making another unnecessarily long post here, so I'll try to wrap it up. Thank you again for your input in your second post, but I would like to see some more feedback.

At least I'm not posting about pets, like every tenth person on here. Not that I have anything against that idea, but I think the number of topics about it is a little extreme.

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 22:49
#4
Mejezfeld's picture
Mejezfeld
I like to think that the

I like to think that the Yellow and Purple is just a stand-in for White and Black because White and Black minerals wouldn't look as aesthetically pleasing as Yellow and Purple, even if they would get the symbolism of light and dark across to the player better.

Eldritch monsters? The Snarbolax seems to be the closest we have to those at this point in terms of being really creepy and utterly alien, which is what "Eldritch Abomination" actually means, not "big tentacled scary something or another that edgy tryhards seem to adore".

But yeah, I'd still like to see some big tentacled things in SK (and if it gets an armor based on it, give it a Lockdown bonus against players equipped with Angelic and Emberbreak line helms and Spiral Tailed Helm), and plant and bug monsters too, because it would be cool, and if the designers play it right, the game can draw the attention of Bogleech.com and we'd get an influx of new players. Yay.

Also seeing as the "villain" of this game is equipped with the moniker of "The Swarm", it looks like we might be seeing some insect-themed enemies/bosses soon anyway.

As for Water-themed levels... well, we can do those without a special brand new status effect associated with water, right?

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 22:54
#5
Thimol's picture
Thimol
-----

There were supposed to be orange minerals?

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 01:18
#6
Mejezfeld's picture
Mejezfeld
@sylvanius

The OP thinks there should be orange minerals because the minerals are Red, Yellow, Green, Blue (actually more of a Cyan color I guess) and Purple, and that the visible light spectrum needs to be more adequately represented in them (or more rather, Primary and Secondary colors should be fully represented).

In which case might as well allow the current system of minerals to get swapped out for a seven-mineral system so that the entire VIBGYOR is represented.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 11:26
#7
Duke-Sky's picture
Duke-Sky
The aren't enough Stratum themes to warrant a new color.

If Orange were added, it'd screw up the entire system we have now of assigning Gate stratums.
Three Rings would have to completely redo the system or they'd have to create something like 6 new stratum themes.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 02:40
#8
Incoherrant's picture
Incoherrant
Oooooh, I like this. One new

Oooooh, I like this.

One new mineral colour would provide enough combinations to patch up the incomplete elemental rock/paper/scissor system that the game uses, as well as getting curse and sleep their own themes (both would probably involve dodging a whole lot more than, say, poison). Bring back the Slooms!

As for new monsters...
A mob group that deals shadow and is weak to shadow (your eldritchy things mayhaps?).
One that deals pierce and is weak to elemental (I'd say plants would be cool for this, thorns and whatnot, but with a weakness to being burned and zapped down).
And one that deals elemental and is weak to pierce (I think I once liked the idea of dragons for this; bigger and nastier than chromalisks, breath weapons, piercing weaps to break through their scales).

It's a bit harder to work out the resists, since with the current ones both the pierce and elemental dealing ones should resist shadow and the shadow dealing one could resist either of the other two. Cos fiends and undehds both deal and resist shadow as is. :/

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 07:18
#9
Asukalan's picture
Asukalan
LOL? What happened to orange

LOL?

What happened to orange minerals? Nothing..... becouse.... they were not needed?

Seriosly, those topics are getting more and more ridicolous.

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