Spiral Knights - The game is better for the new update [Support if you agree]

The game is better for the new update [Support if you agree]

28 replies [Last post]

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 23:59

Agazide

Players in SK have always held huge protests and written raging diatribes at every significant update. It’s a tradition in MMOs. The Auction House, PvP, Shadow Lairs, ect- Many of the best known names in SK have threatened to quit unless these features were rescinded or drastically altered, sometimes starting massive protests against them by sheer virtue of their reputation. But in my opinion, (and this is my editorial) the updates were only an excuse for some older players to leave, while many of the most vehement opposers of these updates have shown themselves to be flaming piles of hypocrite (Or wonderful, crafty trolls) immediately after the implementation of said update. The opposition of these elite to changes is intuitive: The rich and powerful want things to stay as they are.

The reasons behind ragequitting Spiral Knights this time seem to be revolving around how easy this new patch makes the game, meaning that it’s too difficult for established players to show their superiority. Established players tend to buy a regular amount of CE each month or so, forming a strong pillar of the SK economy. The most wealthy and well-known ones (Magnus, Romasanta, Biznasty, Aecarus, Chris, ect…) are known by pretty much everyone. So established players are vital, and them quitting would suck for all involved with the game. Why the concern with not being able to show how awesome one is? Because it feels as if all the money spent and skills gained are useless if the enemies no longer warrant these investments. Lack of challenge sucks fun out of a game. Also, it’s hard to validate the major time and financial commitment to a game when any 5 star can solo an endgame boss stratum.

But new players also purchase a huge amount of CE as well, and are a huge factor in the economy. As evidence I present the Steam release: It happened and prices went from 7.5k to 5k in a week. That’s a lot of freaking CE. SK is fundamentally a multiplayer game, and without new players, the core playerbase of elites will slowly erode due to the attraction of other games, changes in lifestyle, and death by shark. Players simply leave the game and don’t come back, which is why items such as the 1st gen tabards are so rarely seen today. Spiral Knights also needs new players to buff the egos of veterans, because nothing validates a hardcore’s efforts like a flock of noobs.

What attracts noobs? Well, what attracted me to SK (Back when there were two bosses, two) were the details. The little clockwork gears in the top-right, the resident population of snipes, the pipes running through Haven, the beauty of simple objects like coins and heat, animation of bullets, breathtaking backgrounds, satisfying combat - I stayed as a noob in T1 for months, because I thought the game couldn’t possibly get better in T2. The experiences that remain with you after a game is over are a large part of what keeps you coming back - My first danger room I completed solo in full proto gear, perpetually at 1 hp as I kited around the room shooting down wave after wave of jellies, finding a solitary heart or health pot just often enough to stay alive. After that, I was sold. Everything in a game comes together for moments like those: Music, unique monsters, sfx, that ‘last stand’ effect where you’re left with a single health pip, a stormy background, they all interact to make moments that keep beginners craving more. Here was the game that I’d wanted to play ever since I was a little snot growing up on Pokemon Gold. Detail and quality of design were what were drew me in.

In terms of detail, this patch fixed a lot. Yes, the monster bugs did make the game harder, but in a fake, unfair way that turned off beginners. Infinitely dodging goblins looked ridiculous and obviously bugged, and the freaking Retrodes would kill you the moment they spawned. Yes, that was difficult. It wasn’t fun. I wondered why the devs didn’t fix these mistakes, and I guess they simply didn’t know. Disappointing. Aside from the Lumbers attacking through walls, a lot of the bugs were fixed, or at least noticed. To micro for a bit, I think they nerfed zombies a bit too much with attack speed and direction locked, and maybe giving the Alphas a limited turning radius instead of making them attack in a straight line would have been a better idea. Anyway, this patch? It fixed the game and because it’s easier now is a stupid reason to quit. You may complain as you will.

These balance issues will get fixed over time as the dev team is great at listening to the community, and the game will be that much better for this patch in the end. There are still huge balance issues for gunners, as well as currently useless pieces of equipment to deal with, but all in time.

To the future,

-Ag

*Flock of noobs should link here: http://spiralsnipes.tumblr.com/post/11981721688
Aga can't do HTML

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 00:39

Psychodestroyer

Actually...

I don't HATE the patch. I like how the things were nerfed, I just think that may have gone a little far with some of them.

In short, it made some enemies too easy. But if I heard about this patch and OOO had decided NOT to use it, I'd be disappointed.

I like the changes, just some went a bit far.

IMO.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 01:12

Gwenyvier

Very well put, I agree. I

Very well put, I agree.

I also think a couple of the enemy nerfs went too far, specifically the Zombie's swing attack. The rest are ok, Retrodes spawning already swinging at you/doing their laser snot attack was complete BS, as was the Gremlin dodging infinately. I think they nerfed the Devilites some, but if they did it wasn't enough for me to notice. Overall I do not mind the new patch at all.

~Gwen

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 03:14

Merethif

Generally I agree, but

Generally I agree, but locking Zombies and Wolvers (especially Alpha Wolvers) attack direction doesn't fall into "debugging bugged enemies" and that's where I think that monsters nerfs went too far.
I'd rather make Devilites ranged attacks locked instead ;-)

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 04:13

Jontlemen

Give Zombies and Wolvers back

Give Zombies and Wolvers back their attack direction changing and all will be well.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 04:18

Alice-In-Pyroland

Give Alpha Wolvers their

Give Alpha Wolvers their attack tracking back, and make Zombies and Retrodes attack faster and deal more damage, and the update would be perfect.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 07:17

Metagenic

IMO the devs shouldn't have tried this to attract noobs

A lot of the 5* veterans are so egotistical and demeaning towards newbies in this community that most noobs would probably leave anyway. When I was a noob and first saw all these ego-inflating threads on the forums, I was highly tempted to quit this game. Luckily I stayed.

Plus T1 is so boring and unprofitable - again, this drives noobs away; they're forced to sit in Haven once their energy runs out, staring enviously at the guys in top gear.

In short, this update pissed off a lot of veterans, and probably won't attract more noobs anyway.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 07:20

Asukalan

Asukalan is not amused with new patch. I dont agree.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 07:32

Juances

"Plus T1 is so boring and

"Plus T1 is so boring and unprofitable "

New players are just dumb. Not actaully their fault because no one teaches them.
I like to start new characters just to prove people wrong.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/502/spiral20120108234710.png/

arena + snarbolax (30ce since i skip boss) repeat (by now you spent 60 ce) use the 40ce to do a final run and do kll the boss this time - sell some stuff - 10k with 100 mist

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 07:34

Kalaina-Elderfall

I'm okay with the "can't

I'm okay with the "can't attack when spawning" delay. The things I don't like are alphas and zombies being so easy to dodge now. And even then, I'm okay with that for T1 and T2. But not for T3. It takes a while to get to T3 and T3 shouldn't be catering to newbies at all. Fake difficulty or not, enemies being dangerous is just how fun works.

Anybody threatening to quit over this is silly. It makes the game a little less fun, that's all.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 08:10

#10

Happyapathy

IMO

Wolvers getting their tracking back is a MUST.

Zombies either need a faster attack or get their tracking back.

Monsters stand idle too long after spawning, I'm not against some sort of delay but I shouldn't be able to mow down Gremlin Mender's before any enemies get a chance to react to defend it.

Gremlin's dodge time needs to be faster, maybe not as fast as before, but right now its like they dodge then stand there staring stupidly for a moment while you cut them down.

Fix gun puppy shots, don't know if it is a glitch or not but shots shouldn't spawn further from the gun puppy, it just doesn't make sense.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 09:00

#11

Loest

Kudos to the OP.

I'm willing to accept that some of the nerfs went too far and have made things too easy--the balancing act isn't easy, and you can't always expect things to come out just right.

But I do think that at least a handful of the things that were addressed really were problems, types of difficulty that I, at least, found really irritating rather than fun--and I know that others felt the same way. I greatly prefer for designers to take an interest in fixing things that make the game less fun than for them to ignore user complaints, and I like it even more when they follow through and implement changes to address those complaints.

I'd much rather they make changes that go a little too far than not make any changes at all. That they are willing to make changes at all suggests that they'll be willing to keep tweaking the game to make it better--maybe even by dialing down some of the nerfs that may have gone too far.

So, finally, kudos as well to OOO, for bothering to re-balance their game. Keep it up.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 09:37

#12

Merethif

@Metagenic "A lot of the 5*

@Metagenic

"A lot of the 5* veterans are so egotistical and demeaning towards newbies in this community"
Although I'm not one of them for sure (so far I've been once to FSC and yet failed at last Vanaduke phase) I'm still consider wolvers tracking ability what makes those monsters interesting. It's not about being demanding toward new players. New players just deserve game of same high quality as I've received one year ago. Not some lite version ;-)

"Plus T1 is so boring and unprofitable"
Interesting and profitable are very different things - for example farming bosses/going through Arenas again and again is profitable but boring, doing different levels is fun, but unprofitable. Personally I find T1 interesting and fun (as well as any other Tier or PvP introduced by OOO so far). But that's maybe because Fun>Profit in my case.

BTW, you're saying T1 is boring. If so, much more boring it's become since wolvers and zombies lost their tracking ability, isn't it.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 09:55

#13

Kalaina-Elderfall

To me, the Alphas are really

To me, the Alphas are really the biggest change I see in the game. Alphas were the only thing holding up the Beast family, otherwise made up of the lulzy Chromalisks and meh Wolvers. Now an Alpha charge is like a freight train. Pretty easy to dodge if you sidestep it. And a personal issue is how hard they are to hit with my Blitz charge now that they aren't coming directly at my face. That was sort of how I dealt with them. Now they take longer to kill AND pose less of a threat.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 11:14

#14

Guyinshinyarmour

When it comes to zombies, do they turn to leap at you? Or breathe fire? Removing lock on from them was just making them consistent. Retrodes only have two attacks; the laser and the swipe. So it coulda went either way. But I doubt people would want turning lasers.

The wolver attack is supposed to be a shield-breaker to punish you if you try to tank them out. If you're shielding, you're probably not moving out of the way. So it sorta makes sense. I suspect that to eliminate them comboing you mid teleport required the tracking to be removed though, so it was mandatory to mess with it when they'd rather leave it. Tracking coming back is a possibility I feel.

The crazy range of the swipes flew in the face of their stubby arms. It's rather cheap when an attack visually whiffs, but you get hit anyway.

Spawn paralyzation was a bonus for those of us with not-so-good connections. Not being jumped out of nowhere is always a plus.

Gremlins having a longer dodge cooldown makes gunning them somewhat viable now. I woulda preferred them to rather just not be able to dodge and still run around instead of being frozen like they are, but whatever.

The attack speed of the laser and swipes were fine. Dunno why they were fixed. It's not like they were cheap because they attacked too fast, like devilites. :|

So, five things right and one thing wrong? That's pretty damn good. I dunno why people are going on like the game is ruined foreeeeeeverrrrrr.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 16:33

#15

Agazide

I think the general consensus

I think the general consensus is that people were happy that some obvious bugs were fixed (infinitely foward dodging menders looked ridiculous), but most people feel that some nerfs were too much. At the very least, there's dev attention to the issues.

Removing Alpha Wolver's tracking ability was a bit too much, in my opinion. They were great as they were. Also, zombie and retrode swipe speeds were never an issue.

For a counterpoint from my GM, http://spiralsnipes.tumblr.com/post/15561601548

^ Written by his Imperial Majesty Grand Protectorate of Elitia, Champion for Life of the Ego League, Honorary God-King Magnus. (May peace be with him and the gods guide his actions).

Seriously though, he's one of the top players and heads one of the elite guilds, [Guild]. The very name of the guild is a flipped bird to [Knightmare] if you don't know the history between these two guilds, but movingon

"I know it takes Magnus a bare minimum of four hours to get out of bed and pick himself up off the floor due to his ego being made from such a dense material, sooner or later he will lose his claim to sentenience, evolve into a Pulsar and screaming “I AM AWESOME” every rotation"

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 16:23

#16

Mysticbeam

+4trillion and 64 to the OP :)

trhe only thing that OOO has done so far in ANY of the patches, is make the alphas tank in a straight line :D all of the others were fine imo, and i started playing when the snarby came out :)

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 16:38

#17

Happyapathy

just wondering, do u think

just wondering, do u think the whole thing with the gun puppies shots spawning further is a glitch or purposeful? Cause it doesn't make the game easier and makes no sense what-so-ever

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 16:45

#18

Ndognine

I was wondering the same

I was wondering the same thing as Happyapathy here.
Its even weirder when you stand up close and you block 2 shots, but the 3rd spawns 5ft away ...Looks really...uneven I guess

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 17:16

#19

Mirei

I think some of the

I think some of the adjustments to the mobs were justified, but not all of the nerfs. They probably won't change the nerfs though, considering I felt RJ was over nerfed when they did that and nothing has been done about it since.
I think alpha wolvers are a joke now, but I think they were too deadly before the nerf. I don't know what to do to fix them. Maybe make their bite track again, but drop your shield if you decide to block every hit (not the whole you block 1 attack and pretty much die)?

I too question why gun puppies somehow have magic bullets that shoot 100 feet away from their mouths.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 17:21

#20

Batabii

+agree Now all they have to

+agree

Now all they have to do is halve the price of shadow keys and add another t3 boss.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 17:32

#21

The-Rawrcake

More than half the price of

More than half the price of them, completely take off shadow keys and have 0 loot to not let it be used for making money.

This way, end-game players can enjoy (emphasis on enjoy) new content for once (not a T2 boss being added like last time).

And also add another T3 boss, that is long over due.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 17:38

#22

Batabii

What?! That area is way too

What?! That area is way too hard to give you no rewards whatsoever, even if it IS free.

At least let us still craft the armors.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 17:54

#23

Slayzz

@Agazide Nicely written. I

@Agazide Nicely written.
I think you are right; some aspects of the patch were beneficial, but some weren't as well. It must be hard for the game Devs to get it right on their first try, so complaints about one thing from a new patch I would think are completely normal.

I believe the core reason for all complaints is lack of new content. Each and every player who has beaten vanaduke at least once is probably hoping for new content. The last new content added were the shadow lairs, and they turned out to be a bit expensive, resulting in a turn off for many. If the Devs were to create a new boss with a unique stratum, or multiple new clockwork levels (or both), I truly think it will attract more people to the game, as well as making people willingly pay more money.
Additions that would please:
New weapons
New armor (not as much)
New shields (haven't been any new shields to ages as far as I know)
New clockwork levels
New bosses (biggest one)
Upgrades/set finishers for equipment (radiant Silvermail combo set would be perfect for LD- shad & pierce)

I must admit the Devs have had some unexpected additions (who saw the brandish patch coming?), but giving the players what they want would be best. Feel free to disagree, as this is just my opinion.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 20:39

#24

Agazide

I think the gun puppy thing

I think the gun puppy thing is some kind of glitch, though they die too quickly for me to be able to tell. I'll check next time.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 21:02

#25

Tengu

I agree, BUT...

Your point is well proven, and frankly I agree with it 100%.

The problem is that the latest round of flames over the patch may have broken my spirit.
Agazide, would you like to join my SK Death cult? Would you like to pray for the Big Format with me? You won't be finding me online, as I'm just logging on to craft anymore...but consider the offer open.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 22:23

#26

Mayaura

Guild - Cloud Nine

Wonferful fost, Agafide. You haf me felling fery effy. i fofally afree that deaf by sharf is a fig proflem in the sk communify. Perhafs sk soulf puf in wafer lefels and wafer monfers like sharfs for us to baffle, jusf for practif for real life.
Fank you.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 23:22

#27

Metagenic

Basically

they overnerfed everything and still haven't added new content.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 02:52

#28

Alice-In-Pyroland

just wondering, do u think

just wondering, do u think the whole thing with the gun puppies shots spawning further is a glitch or purposeful? Cause it doesn't make the game easier and makes no sense what-so-ever

It's pretty obviously a glitch, the bullets don't even spawn in line with each other all of the time, on occassion one or two will spawn several squres in front of the others. Considering it doesn't seem that any of the other turrets were changed and there wasn't any mention of it in the patch notes, I'd say it's a glitch.

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The game is better for the new update [Support if you agree]