Spiral Knights - I need sword help

I need sword help

10 replies [Last post]

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 21:13

The-Rawrcake

Ok, I think I have tried swords before and I have always disliked it, but I think I didn't do it right. So I'll make this in new recruits because I might as well be new here because I only used guns

I am going to start a new character to find out about swords because with the new nerfs etc. I need something better to do and elevator passes carry over in the account.

My knowledge: I read threads like master sword persons thread and a few others. I like how the shield cancelling works and I am planning on something I did not do last time: using only the 180 degree slash swords / the ones with the first strike with a big cleave... but my biggest problem before was gun pups and mecha knights and devilites

so I am planning on this set:

Wolver Cap -> Vog for ASI
Wolver Coat -> Vog for ASI
Bristling Buckler -> Barbarous Thorn Shield

Avenger -> DA
Faust -> GF
Flourish -> Not sure

I figure I will need ASI because avenger and faust are both very slow, which is disappointing because I will not get asi on those easily from UVs or until 5* which is disappointing

My questions:

Should I use a Sudaruska instead of Avenger / Faust if I commonly use the first strike just for protection?

What Flourish? I heard everyone say FF because its buggy in lockdown but stun seems ideal for being up close in PvE

Are the brandishes good for protection? or just their charge attacks, from my little experience shield cancelling was kinda dumb with them

BTS I hear is great because of the bonus and usable everywhere from sword master person thing but me using CoA even as a gunner seemed much needed in PvE as well as an ele / pierce shield - is this only if you roll a shadow and elemental UV on it?

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 21:54

Xiaobay

If i m you i will rather use

If i m you i will rather use DA and Faust instead of sudaruska..
Flourish is some kind of piercing sword similar to brb(barbarous thorn blade)..just the charge attack is more useful in ld..
Yesh,i m a brandish user and it save my life when i m in arena..just run charge>blow>shield.
For a swordman bts is a must..:P

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 07:45

Trying

Should I use a Sudaruska

Should I use a Sudaruska instead of Avenger / Faust if I commonly use the first strike just for protection?

No. Specialized damage is always better

What Flourish?

FF or BTB. You'll want the damage when you fight greavers and devilites

Are the brandishes good for protection?

Just use the charge and then clean up with the regular combo

It is NOT usable everywhere. Whoever told you that should go solo a T3 fiend stratum

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 08:46

Bluescreenofdeath

Quick comment.

Quick comment. There is no reason to start another character to explore swords. Just make sword loadouts on your existing character. That way you don't have to waste time making duplicate shields and handguns (you will still probably want an Elemental gun for turret busting at a distance).

OP questions:

1) Sud instead of DA/GF? No

2) I prefer BTB, but there is equal argument to be made for FF. Difference is the charge. BTB charge is better for crowds, while the FF charge is better for a single enemy (or at least a nice single file line of enemies). The other Piercing swords are a waste of time.

3) I love my brandishes and get a lot of use out of my Voltedge & Acheron both normal attacks and charges. It goes counter to what I would think would be best DPS-wise, but I also really love to use brandishes with VH or Max ASI. It turns you into a blinder and shielding is super quick. That said UV-wise for a brandish CTR still is the best (IMO). I often shield cancel after the 2nd swing for protection or to change direction, but the whole 3 swing combo still comes out faster then the DA/GF 2 swing combo.

4) Whether a shield is good enough totally depends on the user. I know plenty of players who only use SS in T3 & that is a 3* Nomral only shield. Personally I (as a swordsman) switch between: BTS, Grey Owlite Shield, Dread Skelly Shield, and SS depending on the task. This new triple shock arena gate has me actually wanting a CoA too now though.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 09:20

Fradow

A little correction

A little correction Bluescreen (well, you are correct, but that still bug me) : according Lancer spreadsheet (here it is : http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Lancer_Knightz_%28Guild%29/Data), Brandish series and Sealed Sword series have roughly the same time for the full combo, Brandish being faster by about 2 combo per minute, which is very close. I don't think you are actually going to notice the difference.

For Brandish vs Sealed Sword, the definitive answer is : whichever you prefer to play with. On one hand, you are going to be able to shield cancel faster with Brandish, but on the other hand the wide swing and huge knockback of Sealed Sword help you not being hit.

For shield, don't forget about the VPS. It's good when you don't know what's coming (randomly join a friend), when you are hunting for danger room and when you are doing Vana (you really notice the difference if you need to shield Vana's mace and slags).

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 10:57

Nordlead

I use my BTS everywhere, even

I use my BTS everywhere, even when solo. Granted it does get tough when the monsters start dealing large amounts of shadow damage since most of those attacks are ranged and are sometimes hard to dodge. But the reality is it really isn't any worse than my alternative which is the Grey Owlite shield.

@Fradow - the difference is 1/10th of a second for a full combo. In my experience, 1/10th of a second is very noticeable to those who pay attention. I once tried to use a laptop as a synthesizer (with a MIIDI controller) and 1/10th of a second delay between key press and hearing the sound felt like a REALLY long time. In the game, that 1/10th of a second might make the difference between a full combo and having to shield cancel to block an incoming attack.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 14:09

Bluescreenofdeath

@ Fradow. Well on one hand I

@ Fradow. Well on one hand I think the brandish does DPS a little faster than sealed, but on the other hand DPS doesn't really mean much because nobody will ever just sit and wail on a target (or crowd of targets) for a solid minute of uninterrupted combos. Though, even if both combos were the exact same speed the brandish would still come out on top because the combo's total damage is higher. Is it higher enough to mean killing an enemy faster? I don't know. Sorry did not mean to spark a brandish line vs sealed line debate (and apparently I can't help myself either, because I kept doing it).

Yeah, brandish vs sealed really just comes down to playstyle & personal preference.

What I meant was that from a numbers game, to do the most damage I always figured it would be best to have Sword DMG+ with Brandishes and ASI with Sealed swords. However, I have found that I really enjoy brandishes a lot with ASI. The new Brandish charge attack has me wanting to spam charges all the time now though.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 15:00

Fradow

@Bluescreen ahah no sweat, I

@Bluescreen ahah no sweat, I am very susceptible too with all those "now that Brandish got buffed, dump sealed" wannabes.

Ideal case for me, whatever the sword I carry, is to go both ASI and DMG very high, then, if I carry BTS, I go up to DMG max, and if my sword have ASI med, I go up to ASI max. This works for Brandish too : you are not going to have ASI, but CTR instead as UV, and anyway ASI very high is probably enough for a Brandish. Or reduce either to get more CTR, but it's less practical to match armors and trinkets that way (Vog Cub meaning you can't get bonus DMG is rather uncool).

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 18:20

The-Rawrcake

Ok sealed swords lines >

sealed swords lines > suda

Final Flourish > other flourishes because extra damage, taking flourish becase the charge attack is single target oriented to make quick work of alphas or devilites

heavy swords > brandishes. Brandish is just about charge attack which is still a single line. Heavy swords better for protection, shield cancelling.

My current shields > BTS due to protection being only piercing and useful against only piercing mobs.

I decided not to make a new character because of the new update mentioned in general discussion, puts a meaning to having a high-end chatacter. don't need to make another for fun.

Ty for help!

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 22:34

Demonicsothe

I don't think any monsters,

I don't think any monsters, minus trojans and the spear dashing ones often seen in vanaduke, can take a full flourish combo. The charge would most likely be wasted, as it is a narrow attack that has almost no chance of picking up another target after the first one dies in three hits.

Shield cancel is not a heavy only strategy. It works for every sword. Shield cancel is mentioned with heavies because heavies need to shield cancel.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 13:44

#10

Bluescreenofdeath

Heavy swords are not more protected. They are less protected

Heavy swords are not more protected. They are less protected & need shield canceling more. Don't discount the Brandish's normal hits either. The Brandish can get a full 3 swing combo done slightly (even say incredibly slightly still the point is the same) faster then a Heavy can complete a 2 swing combo & the Brandish's combo total damage is higher.

That said the "better" sword is the one you like better. The only way to figure this out is to try both. Unfortunately, to get a fair comparison you will need at least 4* XXXburst Brandish and a 4* Avenger (if not the fully heated 5* versions). Though you could get a general idea by comparing a 2* Calibur to a 2* Troika at least in terms of swing style this would not help any when it comes to the charge attacks (or a 3* Cal to a 3* Kamarin).

As to the BTS. It is the best option when a swordsman needs a Piercing shield. It is also a good option for anywhere due to the Med DMG buff provided you have the skill &/or experience to not have to lean too heavily on your shield. I recently started using my BTS for FSC instead of my Grey Owlite & that is going well. I expect before too long I will follow many of my guildmate's lead and switch to my 3* SS for FSC work.

*edit* While I argue that the Brandish lines are better then the Sealed lines I think both are great swords and I would have to say that I believe the heavy swords take more skill to master and have a much steeper learning curve.

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I need sword help