Spiral Knights - Limit the Number of CE Market Buy/Sell Bids a Player Can Make

Limit the Number of CE Market Buy/Sell Bids a Player Can Make

17 replies [Last post]

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 23:14

Blitzwingoo

It's been suggested that a single ultra rich player can drastically manipulate the CE market. I've seen numerous occasions watching the CE market where bid blockers would increase the price of CE by constantly putting higher bids above everybody else in large quantities, sometimes more than 100 orders. How do I know it's one or two people with that 100+ orders at that price? Because I see them get cancelled and poof the 100+ orders disappear and reappear at a higher bid instantly.

I suggest there should be a limit of how many active buy/sell bids a player is allowed at one time. If a player was limited to making say 10 bids, it would drastically reduce their ability to manipulate the CE market.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 13:52

Zevier

I agree. I've seen this kind

I agree.

I've seen this kind of market manipulation plenty of times. 100 orders pop up at once, disappear, and reappear at another price. I also think 10 bids sounds like a good limit, possibly up to 16 in one, or maybe 20 total, if there is a problem with 10.

Thu, 01/12/2012 - 14:05

Asukalan

Yeah, im completly for that.

Yeah, im completly for that. Anything to control that freaky wild thing called energy depot.

I saw multiple times, a bunch of 100 or even more bids appearing instantly at same price. When it happened and ppl posted buy offers for more CR after while that big offer dissapeared and appeared out of nowhere at higher price. But when ppl actually started selling CE and that offer started to be fullfilled it sudennly dissapeared.

Its obvious these were made just to harass other players by some bored rich ones who are too selfish to see the damage they do to others.

Im all for that. Limit it to 10, 20 whatever, things like that cant be left wild and alone.

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 07:18

Blue-Phaze

+1 All my support on this

+1
All my support on this one.

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 08:40

Gfjmember

Don't stop me now

*makes 100 alts* Now whatcha gonna do?

The problem is that this is exploitable, and will be exploited by the those that are currently exploiting the market, and will only serve to harm innocent players, only being a slight inconvenience to those that this problem is trying to deal with.

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 09:08

Blue-Phaze

What do you mean by

What do you mean by exploitable? You mean, creating multiple accounts?
It's still a start.
Still better than letting them make 100 orders at once.
Managing multiple accounts is quite a pain, especially when you have to restart the game to re-login.
btw, innocent players don't usualy have >10k CE.

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 10:45

Vtmoon

why doesn't an innocent

why doesn't an innocent player have > 10k CE? did I miss something or we associated some sort of guilt with using the market system?

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 13:57

Blitzwingoo

@Gfjmember

Yeah I thought about them making a hundred accounts, but at least it makes it more difficult for them. On top of what Blue-Phaze said, they would also have to manage transferring crowns and CE across their multiple accounts too.

Also I don't see how this harms the innocent? Why would an innocent need to have more than 10 or 20 buy/sell bid on the market for an extended long period of time? I think the effects to the innocent are negligable.

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 14:33

Nacho

The real problem is that the

The real problem is that the CE market mechanic is very stupid. We need that someone buys ce with real money and then he sells it. So they control the market. What you described is supposed to happen as i said they control the market and can do whatever they want with it,they should change how this works instead.

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 14:52

Blue-Phaze

@VtmoonMost players who have

@Vtmoon
Most players who have >10k CE only use it to influence the market.
Or would you spend all your millions of crowns on 10k CE to craft stuff ? I doubt it.
The highest price for a craft is 800 CE. People don't need 10k to craft their stuff (unless you have intentions on influencing the market).
Saying you'll use 10k for elevators is even more stupid -.-

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 20:58

#10

Severage

10K CE To craft things isn't outrageous...

10K CE may seem like a boatload, but it goes fast. In just 12 5* items, probably about 6-8 2*~5* lines, you're out of CE. Basically you can make 2 sets of armor and weapons. It's really not a whole lot. I like to have a robust arsenal of swords, bombs, and guns. Heck, to have that I'd need 10K CE in just weapons really. This game is built to be P2P.

~Sev

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 22:14

#11

Blue-Phaze

@Sev

"This game is built to be P2P."
No, this game is built to live long enough to actually be enjoyable. I've been playing for less than a month now. If I had a buttload of CE since I started playing I'd be close to Tier 4 (if there was one).
But since I'm only F2P I'm still in Tier 2, starting to get 4* gear. and you know what? I've been enjoying this game as hell since I first stepped into Haven. and I know i'll get to solo vanaduke not spending a single penny. It's not P2P it's SUPPOSED to take a long time before you reach end-game.
10K may go dry pretty fast if you're dealing with 5* items but you can't deny it's worth of 65millions of crowns (considering 100CE = 6500crowns) and THAT is a real buttload of crowns.

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 23:15

#12

Severage

@Blue-Phaze

No...you don't understand. You think CE grows on trees? I'm pure-F2P, but you can't POSSIBLY get pasted Tier 2 without CE. *Someone* has to buy it. The game is built to be P2P. That's what I'm saying.

~Sev

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 00:49

#13

Blue-Phaze

Oh, you're saying Pay to Play

Oh, you're saying Pay to Play is actually using CE?
Look, I know the only way of getting more CE on the market is with real money, but what I'm trying to say is that any F2P player can get wherever a P2P player can get, they'll only have to work harder.
Only because you got to Tier 3, doesn't mean you're automatically a P2P player.

btw, we got completely offtopic. We'd better end this arguement '-'

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 02:24

#14

Psychodestroyer

Can I say....

Can we please ditch the extended logic and focus more on the immediate logic?

My statement hardly makes sense to me, so I'll try again.

What I mean is, can we stop referring to the use of CE as almost being P2P? As in tracing back the genesis (did I use that word in the right context?) of stuff?

So like getting a free Magnus, so technically you're still F2P, but if you trace it back, that Magnus had to have been crafted with CE (100 at the least), not counting possible previous steps of perhaps making one, then unbinding to sell then repeat, so if you REALLY think about it the guy who got the free Magnus isn't F2P, because what he got was paid for prior, even without his knowledge.

Can we PLEASE stop using this logic? I'm pretty sure when Spiral Knights was issued with that F2P tag, it meant that a player could play for free without having to pay on a personal level. People who pay just want that extra boost ahead or some other reason, but I mean, really?

I think it just makes things more complicated than they have to be, because by that logic many 'free' things in the world aren't free, because that cost was incurred on someone else without the recipient's knowledge.

And I'm pretty sure if EVERYONE went F2P and didn't spend a cent on CE, OOO would put some CE into the market themselves for a while, before shutting down the game because it's not profitable/they're not actually getting anything out of it (no offense to anyone intended).

TL;DR: Can we switch from saying that SK is entirely P2P because costs are incurred by other players who pay for their advantage, and instead use the F2P/P2P tags as only on a personal level?

Please?

I don't mean to be offensive, but I think this sort of discussion is bound to lead to arguments, like it is now, when people get confused between what the other is trying to say.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 04:06

#15

Severage

lol Guys...

You like...missed it. Totally. I never said that using CE makes you Pay-To-Play. Never. Not once. I said that the game itself, Spiral Knights, is based entirely off of the gamble, that a good amount of players will buy CE, thus making it available to F2Pers.

Psychodestroyer: "And I'm pretty sure if EVERYONE went F2P and didn't spend a cent on CE, OOO would put some CE into the market themselves for a while, before shutting down the game because it's not profitable/they're not actually getting anything out of it (no offense to anyone intended)."

Like I said, the fact that people buy CE to progress faster and compete with friends is a gambit. A very good gambit, though. Where there is competition, and an open advantage, there will be people who use those advantages, even if they have to pay for it. That's how this works.

Not sure how this turned into an argument, *ALL* I said was the game revolves around CE, and without it, you really couldn't be F2P at all. So *someone* has to be P2P. That's all I said. I never said having 4* gear *makes* you P2P.

~Sev

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 10:54

#16

Blue-Phaze

@SevOk, I get your point. I

@Sev
Ok, I get your point. I hope you got mine too. Let's start this again.
This arguement started when you said 10K wasn't a big amount of CE because you can spend it in little time.
Imagine I have a million dollars. I like cars. I decide to spend my money on a super expensive Ferrari.
Even though I spent a freakin million dollars in a single day, it doesn't mean a million dollars is little money.
Even though you spent 10K CE on 12 5* items, it doesn't mean 10K is little CE.
Next.
I know how this turned into an arguement.
We are using "P2P" on different definitions.
You say P2P is a game in which would be impossible to progress unless at least someone spent real money on it.
I say P2P is a game in which it is impossible to have progress or even play at all unless you, yourself spend money on it.
With that enlightened, I hope my point is easier to understand.

~Blue

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 13:54

#17

Psychodestroyer

@Severage

My bad.

I confused myself with the last person I had that argument with. Sorry.

Thanks for not raging back at me (Not that I'm saying you WOULD, but it's the normal response to a post like mine I should think.)

I agree with Blue's clarification.

But either way, sorry.

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Limit the Number of CE Market Buy/Sell Bids a Player Can Make