Spiral Knights - Suggestion: New 'weapon' concept and alternate to shields

Suggestion: New 'weapon' concept and alternate to shields

10 replies [Last post]

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 04:07

Belledaire

Legacy Username

Weapon concept: Wands
Shield alternate concept: Books

Weapon Concept:
I see that the gremlins have little healers/wizards with this idea -
How about a wand weapon type that has two modes:

Regular mode would take the place of the combo swords have. You would tap attack to fire a single shot (it would take a second to fire and would go a short distance with a single shot, a little longer than a sword slash) You could tap up to three times fast and each tap would extend how far the blast would go (up to a regular gun range at 3 taps). I suggest it this way because it helps stop wands from taking the edge of guns away. They aren't intended to be great for ranged combat but they'd be fairly effective in a pinch.

The charged mode is what would make wands interesting. Each wand type would have a charge that fires off some sort of 'spell'. One might be for instance an elemental blast that, upon hitting a surface, explodes a small ways around like a bomb. Another might be an blast that if it hits an ally heals 1-2 slots or provides an attack up. I think the range of options is something the developers could come up with:)

This would help provide a great team tool or "magic" option for those of us who want to do that sort of thing without devaluing the current weapon types.

Shield alternate concept: Book

I love shields, but I wish there was at least one alternate option instead of them, as weapons offer. One great example of this I think would be something like Books. Books would be something you carry in your offhand instead of a shield. When the 'shield' button is held down, you'd create an 'aura' effect instead of gaining any protection. Auras would deplete gradually just like shield strength depletes from hits and have to be recharged, but each family of books could provide a different sort of benefit when you use the aura for you and/or your teammates. Examples:

A healing book family that (after a second or two held down) drains and pulses a wave of healing (1-2 slots) for you and people immediately around you.

A weakness book that gradually drains away but enemies that are around you get an elemental or defense debuff for a short period.

A buffing book that provides attack/defense/speed buff temporarily to yourself/your team.

The general idea is that you're giving away your ability to defend yourself for some sort of ability that you can dispense. Since you can't switch out shields mid-dungeon like you do weapons, you couldn't switch out books either and this helps balance things like a healing book. Sure, you can heal, but you can't do it constantly and you're a big target because you can't shield.

I think these two ideas stand well on their own and mesh really really well with the things that already exist (and each other) to create some interesting possibilities.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 07:27

Metaknight

why does everyone want to

why does everyone want to make this game MORE magical/medieval.. there are already a million other games that do that, play those instead! :P

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 08:22

TheAurablaze

Legacy Username

Don't be a hater.

Dude. You're using a sword and shield. The might be space swords and shields but they're still swords and shields.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 09:07

Metaknight

*ahem*

don't you mean SPACE sword and SPACE shield! this is the future, homie!!

oh, you said space sword haha. but also, grenades/bombs.

either way I am not trying to shoot down ideas for different weapons/shield replacements entirely. i just don't want the players to advocate the game be turned into some generic fantasy game.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 09:38

Belledaire

Legacy Username

I don't particularly care

I don't particularly care about the theme component, my goal was to advance the gameplay mechanics I suggested. Sidenote - Other famous MMOs have proven that even 'generic' concepts like wands and magic staves can be transformed into something completely un-generic. A good example of this would be Phantasy Star Online's staffs. While they are definitely wizard staves in how their gameplay works, you'd never confuse those things with any mundane example. They're techno and cool as all heck.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 09:56

Metaknight

i stand corrected -- generic

i stand corrected -- generic PHantasy game.

i kid, i kid.. :)

EDIT: Okay so instead of being a hater and joking around, I will offer something more constructive to say!

Wands -- not terribly excited about the idea, but I wouldn't be upset if they were added.

Books -- this idea I like more. particularly I like the idea of temporary status buffs. I might be more prone to the inclusion of a strength/defense/speed series of capsules/potions in addition to the attack/status ones we have now, rather than to give up the shield for this spellbook notion. Then you would have a hard limit to how many times you could use it (without collecting more). However it might make collecting potions harder with a larger variety to the existing drops.

One thing you would need to flesh out further is whether or not the buffs can stack.. and I would be more inclined for spellbooks that buff to be cast at a player, and then make a charge attack version that acts as an area of effect buff, otherwise it would be too quick/easy for players to stand tight together and all cast their respective buffs. With the charge you could do it, but at least it would take more time (and maybe you can't charge while running too to make it a bit tougher still). And if you charge buff before entering a fight, its going to wear off sooner so you're encouraged to try and buff mid-battle.

does that make sense?

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 12:18

Merethif

Wands already exist

Gremlin's wand already exist - it's called Wrench Wand. If charged it casts Ember Bolt.

Also there are already wand-like weapons available in Spiral Knights. They are called Alchemers. Although Alchemers fall into "hanguns" category they work pretty much like wands.

As much as I'm not into "wand" idea I like the "book" idea. I'd rather see them in weapon slot though - as I've alredy stated I strongly believe that shields are inseparable part of combat system in SK. But I may be wrong here and they could work as alternative for shields.
Also I don't believe more healing abilities are needed. When solo I usually end T2 levels with up to seven unused Super Health Capsules.
But some buffing or debuffing books may work well especially in teamwork.
Actually I think that book is best "new weapon/item type" idea I've read so far on that forum. At least at first glance.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 20:53

Belledaire

Legacy Username

Book concept as a shield alternate

Ah see, I like the idea of books (or whatever they might end up) being an offhand item instead of shield because it offers an interesting strategy change. Sure, you can buff or recover or whatever, but at to cost of that very very handy ability to absorb some of the blows you usually just stood through. I personally rarely use my shield (which isn't always a good thing). I'm constantly dodging and weaving around targets and using knockback for crowd control instead. I think it offers a (for lack of a better description) rogue-like approach to combat if you could forego the strong defense for some other nifty benefit that requires you to dodge to survive.

Tue, 04/19/2011 - 20:01

elivilson

Legacy Username

i'm the only one that think

i'm the only one that think that these buff concepts of the book could also be a wand charge ability?

there could be a wand that heals, a wand that give buffs, a wand that cause status....

it would also give some kind of "suportive class" to the game, since that someone can equip a healling wand and a buff wand at the same time, and by using a good shield to protect the others of the party as a "human shield"

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 00:14

Chandrakant

I'll take "bright ideas" for 500...

The book idea is not a bad idea at all. Granted, it just means that we'll start getting players that will just run around and channel all day, but, whatever.

I would like to see some different weapons, honestly, though. I do love the Wrench Wand, because it was such a cute idea... until I found out it was going to eternally stay as a 2-star weapon and never get any better. It's kinda silly to offer such a weapon that has no growth value amongst a menagerie of weapons that all do.

Having other wands would be lovely, and they can just behave the same way that the existing wand does (but, well, different/improved based upon the type of wand and level, of course..). If a difference really must be drawn between wands and the other slew of other melee weapons, then I would suggest, perhaps, designing the wand mechanics in such a way that leveling up will not offer more basic attack damage, but simply empower the spell that's cast after charging, even going so far as to change the visual effect?

There's always, always, always room for more individuality in an mmo environment, and in a game like this, more choices in a rock-paper-scissors design = more challenges and surprises.

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 00:43

#10

Hopscotch

Legacy Username

( '.')b

Re: Alternate Shields

I completely agree with the concept of having an alternate option for your shield slot.

The Spiral Knight concept of "play-style defined through equips" is awesome. The three different weapons (sword, guns, bombs) demonstrates this quite nicely, but it certainly creates a thirst for even more options. The ability to define play-style by swapping equips other than weapons would also fit this theme well.

While some players look at the current shield type as "part of the core gameplay", any additional shield types would be optional; they won't ruin your game if you choose not to use them. However, I feel that the possibilities available in the game are what makes the game feel awesome to an individual player. The more you can choose to do, the more real the game feels to you. Aside from potential balance issues and the effects on the in-game economy, I don't think extra shield types can hurt the game at all (from the player perspective).

That said, I'd like to oppose the idea of including a "healing" option. Much of the challenge of Spiral Knights comes not from individual battles, but from surviving multiple rooms (and sometimes multiple floors) without having access to healing. If you can heal between rooms, the struggle to endure several floors becomes null and void. Monsters would have to be twinked to be able to knock out players in a single hit; otherwise, the monsters would no longer be a threat at all, and the game would become far too easy.

Team buffs and enemy debuffs would make great replacements for shields, though. Trinket-type bonuses over the entire party would be fine. Or perhaps a 5-second damage/speed boost on yourself would suit the assassin-style players better.

Extra shield concept: Oversize Shields

Blocking during a monster's attacking phase is a core part of the Spiral Knights game system. You must learn when to block attacks, and when an attack will crush your shields. What if there was a shield that was big enough to encircle the entire party? You may have access to more shielding than before...

Strengths:
Each individual shield has its own health points. When it takes too much damage, it collapses temporarily. However, if you raise your party-size shield, and the other party members use their personal shields from within, the monsters must break through two layers of shields to reach your team mates. This provides an alternate strategy for battling boss enemies. This also allows for higher damage from bosses, while still leaving the battle "possible to win".

Weaknesses:
This will be your only shield for several floors in a row. Because it is so large, your shield will get hit by a larger number of attacks (including projectiles that would otherwise miss you), and thus your shield will take maximum damage and break much faster than other shields. Also, while your team mates will have the protection of two shields' worth of defense, you will not. As a result, it isn't very effective for keeping yourself alive.

Exploits:
Three or four players, all equipped with oversize shields, might huddle together and block all day. Every knight will have 3 or 4 shields' worth of protection. When one shield breaks, if it recovers at the same speed as personal shields, it will be completely regenerated before the last of the other knights' shields have broken. Because of this, oversize shields need to have special balancing involved.

Balancing:
Broken shields should require roughly three times the amount of recovery time as a regular shield. Knights should not be able to move while using an oversize shield (to prevent easy runs through graveyards). Broken oversize shields should only regenerate while the shield button is held; this means the knight must devote time standing still and not attacking. This dissuades knights from holding ground and progressing forwards while enemies still stand. Alternatively, broken oversize shields could just not recover until the end of the floor.

I believe this option allows for a different play style choice (furthering Spiral Knights' theme on interchangeability), which rewards risky play with a potentially more resilient party. If it doesn't break the game, it can only improve the players' experience.

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Suggestion: New 'weapon' concept and alternate to shields