Spiral Knights - Here's how we can fix the economy.

Here's how we can fix the economy.

39 replies [Last post]

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 15:31

Renpartycat

Basically the economy is being constantly manipulated and this needs to be fixed. However, I have some ideas to not only counter this problem, but

- Lower the elevator cost in Tier 1 to 5 Energy
- Make all CE in the market cost 5k Crowns

Now here's why this would be a great idea for the game. As of now, Tier 1 Players don't stand a chance because they can't make enough money to buy 100CE, and even if they can, whoops hardly enough money left. The reason why CE costs so much right now, and why the prices were even at 7k-8k in the past isn't really because CE was running dry, but because people in higher tiers only think of themselves. Other than the constant market manipulating and CE hoarding, people think "If I can earn more money here, CE should be worth more!" "If there was a big CE sale, CE should be worth more!" "If I use an Elevator Pass, CE should be worth more!" "If you can recharge 100 mist overnight, CE should be worth more!" People just want to make CE more expensive and have these random excuses. This game shouldn't be completely pay-to-win, because right now that's what this game is about.

The truth is, if all market CE was 5k crowns, the market would be much more balanced. Getting to Tier 3 by staying F2P won't be impossible, Tier 1 players can make it to Tier 2 and enjoy more of the game, and nobody would be exploiting the market. Again, my two suggestions here would basically let players of each tier progress at a decent pace. As of now, T1 players can't advance to T2 unless they buy CE, and T2 players are stuck in an endless loop, and those in Tier 3 don't need to care about anything. It would be fair to balance the market so that everyone can progress at a nice pace instead of making things unnecessarily hard for the newbies. Because honestly, if I was a new player I'd probably get bored of the game and quit due to the fact that getting to Tier 2 would be too hard. And if new players leave right away, you're losing customers, which is like losing money.

I don't see how improving the economy and giving players the chance to make progress and enjoy the game would be a bad thing, but if you have any criticism whatsoever, please enlighten me.

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 15:49

Firekgold

Well..

I made it to tier 2 with no problem at all..no CE..
But I agree with you at the end,the economy in games is one of the most important things.
I hope people would take this seriously :D

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 15:57

Severage

Heartily agree.

I couldn't agree more with you. I'm completely F2P and have 5* gear, but ONLY because someone gifted me 10K CE. Without that, I'd probably still be Tier 2, even though I've been playing for 7-ish months (I don't play too avidly, only when I have spare time).

With that free CE, I was able to save up some crowns which barely still fuel my recipes now. But even with it, without buying more, I only have 2 sets of 5* gear (Hat + Chestx2), one 5* shield, and two 5* weapons, one of which I crafted just today.

Even with the fair amount of time it takes to level 4* gear from 8-10 (Probably longer than 1-8), I find that it sits at level 10 for a good while before I can upgrade it again. Not only that, but it's discouraging when you have 3* gear that only needs to be level 5, and sits at 10 for so long. Each 5* recipe is like 1 USD to craft, or nearly 60K crowns, which depending on what you do can take weeks.

Since there is no level-up aspect of your personal character (Unlike many MMOs), having your gear sit at 10 and running dungeons just to make money can be very discouraging/boring. I have to admit, I nearly quit several times due to this. But great friends have kept me playing (Yay for social interaction).

I think a cure could be PvP since you don't get heat and make money, but since your chances of winning are (For argument's sake) 50-50, and your payout is 140% of what you put in, you don't usually make money there either. So either there should be a way to eliminate the grinding aspect, or make CE more affordable to F2P, because it's rather ridiculous right now. I'm not saying make CE useless by any rate, it IS real money, but the F2P community right now pretty much consists of wolver-geared players....most F2P die out after that.

~Sev

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 16:02

Psychodestroyer

@Severage

" I'm completely F2P and have 5* gear, but ONLY because someone gifted me 10K CE. "

*GASP*

Dude, thank whoever did that for you a million times from me. The world needs more people like him.

But don't say his name. Or he'll get swarmed.

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 16:16

Renpartycat

@Firekgold

Well yeah I got to Tier 2 easily when CE was much cheaper, 3.5k and slowly rising to 5k ish, I admit I had just a tiny bit of help from my friends, but it was just materials and a small bit of energy. But I managed to get like more than half of my T2 set before I got help. I remember back in my newbie days I used to do "Energy Splits" where I would ask someone "Hey, if you give me half the cost of CE, I'll buy 100 and share it with you, interested?" It worked quite well actually. Wasn't the best way of progressing, but it gave us the chance to venture on and deal with those rough times in the economy. It might have been a really efficient idea if you were running on mist, but then again mist has always been nice and efficient.

Either way I hope the economy gets balanced someday. I've seen many people that don't like playing this game due to the economy.

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 16:42

Blue-Phaze

Critisism? Ok.

You used way too much hyperbole in your text, especially when you said "pay-to-win", but I like the idea overall.
I mean it's not pay to win, it's more like pay to reach end-game sooner.
Personally, I reached tier 2, without buying CE, in only 2 weeks, maybe a bit less, but I admit I felt really bored wandering through haven and checking auctions when there was no more mist left for the day (especially because haven is quite small, but that's offtopic).
That limitation may make new players give up on playing SK. That's why I support A BIT lower elevator costs for T1, not half the price. That way, players wouldn't have to get only 250 crowns per depth (with CE valuing 5k) to compensate their energy payouts. I'd rather make that 7e instead of 5e.
If OOO fixed CE prices at 5k, there would be no real point on buying CE with real money neither in having a market for Crown/Energy trading, which, IMO, would remove a bit of SK's "charm".
I don't know how I'd fix that though. I thought of adding a maximum value for offers, but that would only make everybody offer at that price. Maybe a bit higer value than 5k would make things a bit more fair.
But I like your efforts on making a better game. ^^ +1
I hope other people's suggestions will help you improve this.

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 16:49

Severage

@Psychodestroyer

Let's just say he had it to spare. Like...he has loads of 5* sets, he's pretty wealthy in-game. Of course I'm keeping him anonymous after revealing all that, because he will get swarmed. But yes, the world does need more people like that. I wish I had the capital to do the same. He's really a good guy.

But, let me ask this...why do SO many people beg in Haven? Because there are separation of classes in SK. Low, Middle, and High class. Low class consist of 90% F2P players. Middle class consist of players who spent a little, or powerhoused up to higher gears without paying real money. High class are those who spend real money, and plenty of it, on the game.

For ALL players, starting out is hard, unless you spend money. Getting to know the game, and then figuring out you can make only a couple thousand crowns a day (with recipes), which most people don't even figure out that quickly, is discouraging. You probably won't even get 100CE a day. So, why do people beg? Because it's unbalanced.

~Sev

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 16:53

Juances

tl;dr

"- Make all CE in the market cost 5k Crowns"

We will stop using the market and just sell expensive energy directly, by spamming trade chat.

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 17:04

Severage

And, this is why balancing Energy via the convenient market will never work. Because somehow, CE *must* be worth 5k crowns, even though it was worth as little as 3k at one point.

Either Juances literally would do that, or he's giving an example, I don't want to judge him, but whatever the case; it's true. That's what would happen. It'd be 1:1 person exploitation, who needs market exploitation?

~Sev

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 17:23

Renpartycat

@Severage

But even so, 5k crowns for 100CE would be fair for everyone. Maybe 5.5k, maybe just 6k. But it should be low enough so T1 players can escape their endless loop, but also high enough to keep a stable economy.

I just think it should be fair for T1 players to reach T2. I don't want any extra profit, I'm T3 and I have most of everything I want, I just don't want cool people to ragequit when they realize they're stuck in an endless loop unless they spend real life dosh on the game. Sure it might be risky, but you know what they say: The customer's always right. If you treat the customers just a little tiny bit, they might be convinced to make business with you.

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 17:29

#10

Juances

The market is set by players,

The market is set by players, you have to convince players to lower their prices.

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 19:29

#11

Renpartycat

@Juances

Yeah the economy can be set by the players, we could sell 5 star weapons for one crown or UVs for 60 million crowns.

But it's unfair for T1 and T2 players at the moment. You have to realize this. Three Rings can't keep milking the same old players, because at some point we will stop buying CE no matter how great the sales are. New players progress through the game and enjoy it, and there's a higher chance of players buying CE, which not only gives profit to Three Rings, but helps stabilize the CE market so we have a good supply of CE.

5k is the a fair price for knights of all tiers that need CE. There's no reason not to keep the market prices at a price low enough for T1/T2 players but high enough to be right where it should be. Three Rings can test this out for 2 weeks or a month, and if it goes well they can keep it there. The only reason why someone would disagree with this is because they're either greedy or they don't understand the true impact of this change. Yes, a market and an economy can be set by the supply and demand of players, things like weapons, gear and recipies are quite stronger than the CE market, believe it or not. But the CE market just needs to be fixed one of these days so newbies can progress through the game. With more players, we gain more supply, but also more demand. With more players playing and enjoying the game, Three Rings has a higher chance of getting profit from their knights.

The point is, we need a balanced CE economy. Try playing this game on a new account, without buying any CE or without receiving help or freebies from any friends you might have and tell me how long it takes you to ready T3 status. Because with this current economy, SK is impossible for newbies. I'm just saying that the game should be fair for everyone that plays it. This game should be free-to-play, not pay-and-play or pay-to-win.

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 19:33

#12

Gfjmember

First of all I should state

First of all I should state my credentials here. I am a second year Politics Philosophy and Economics student at University, and prior to starting my course I had studied economics for four years. Basically I have been studying economics for 5 and a half years.

What you're doing by suggesting that all energy prices at 5k is creating a price ceiling. Currently suppliers are willing to sell enough CE to satisfy the demand of the buyers at around 7k.

If it was fixed at 5k, then buyers would want to buy more, and sellers would want to sell less. This would create a shortage of CE in the market, so some players are unable to access CE, and a second market forms, one of private trading. The problem with the private market is that there is less information about prices, so the sellers can better exploit the buyers.

I'd say to reduce the rate at which the price of CE rises, OOO would probably need to reduce the amount of crowns gained, or reduce the energy costs for crafting. Alternately, stop buying CE for crowns, however I doubt that anyone can amass enough numbers to impact the market substantially. There's also the effect of the real world economy. If the real world economy is good, people have more disposable income to spend on things like video games.

To address one other point, it costs 50 energy to make 2* gear, which can be done on mist, so T2 can be reached without using CE at all.

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 19:40

#13

Gfjmember

Ah, it seems you replied

Ah, it seems you replied whilst I was posting.

"New players progress through the game and enjoy it, and there's a higher chance of players buying CE, which not only gives profit to Three Rings, but helps stabilize the CE market so we have a good supply of CE."

The higher the price of CE, the more likely players will wish to buy it with real money rather than crowns, so a higher CE price benefits OOO.

"Try playing this game on a new account, without buying any CE or without receiving help or freebies from any friends you might have and tell me how long it takes you to ready T3 status"

I have not spent a penny on this game. Nor have I received any handouts. According to my Steam Achievements I started playing on June 30th, got T2 clearance on Jul 13th and T3 on Nov 13th

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 19:57

#14

Juances

the market doesnt give magick energy

"5k is the a fair price for knights of all tiers that need CE"

The developers cant force that price. If they do it by caping the market, energy deals will go 'underground' and the market will be empty so it just wont work.

Let me explain again. All the energy that comes from the market belongs to the players that already bought it, its not from OOO.
Developers cant do anything about it. Unless they decide to interfere with player-to-player trades. That sucks.

Or let me put it this way. It's my fking energy, i can sell it at the price I want. Yeah, you may convince me to lower the prices, but go and try to convince eveyone other paid player.

This idea would work on a perfect world where all players are united to set standard prices.

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 20:05

#15

Metagenic

SK is entirely pay-to-win

If nobody paid irl money for CE then everyone would be stuck on 3* gear. CE buyers alone keep this game running, otherwise the economy would be completely messed up.

In that sense, every single T3 player is P2P. Even if you didn't pay a single cent yourself, you're still funding the guys who do pay for CE.

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 20:12

#16

Juances

Don't get me wrong

Don't get me wrong, it's a good cause, but it's as immpossible as world peace.
We'd have to make an aillance between all P2P players to set the price together. If OOO interferes in any way it'll only generate hate, mainly because they already stated they dont interfere with energy prices.

Fri, 01/13/2012 - 20:38

#17

Darkbrady

Setting prices for CE in the

Setting prices for CE in the market is both impractical (people will bypass it) and kills the spirit of player driven economies. There will always be people who have enough and are willing to pay more for their CE.

However, I absolutely agree that T1 should be reduced to 5ce per lift. Even when I started and CE was cheap in the market, it was impossibly difficult to make your money's worth from it; you had to just use 100me a day, and save up all your crowns to ever really advance.
Keeping the ce price lower in T1 will not only allow newer plays be able to start up quicker (which will, in turn, make less people get bored and quit before they get to the good bits!), but also have very little to no effect on higher end players or the ce market overall, there's no *real* downside except maybe from OOOs perspective...but then again, as things are, a lot of new players get lost to extremely slow startup games, and SK is a perfect example of a game that takes far too long to get to the stage where you can play properly.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 01:22

#18

Fehzor

If OOOs wanted to, they could

If OOOs wanted to, they could set the CE prices without having to change the market. All they'd have to do is make the drop rates for all items and crowns equal to the current cr conversion rate where-

Total amount drops = combined amount of mats found/number of players*price material is selling at in AH + CR = Current price of CE/10 + Desired amount of gain for that stratum, where the amount given must be balanced to come out about even+the ...

It wouldn't be that hard for them to set the price of CE to whatever they want it at. There are several other ways I can think of... although I kind of like the fluctuating prices. They make the game feel nice and unstable.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 01:53

#19

Darkbrady

Prices are supposed to

Prices are supposed to fluctuate in player driven economies; if they were rigged up like that, then they might as well flat out remove the ability to trade with other players, since everything would be at set prices anyways.

And rigging the "drop rate" would be impossibly difficult if a part of the equation is "price at AH" that'd mean that:
a/ the rigged droprate would have to change absolutely constantly, making runs horribly unreliable for prices, and making every run reap the same rewards
b/ all players would have to do is heap (whichever mat) into the AH at a ridiculously high/low price while removing the rest, and ta-da, they've just massively affected the value of the rigged CE. So to counter this, they would have to basically remove the AH, or at least remove the ability for players to choose the pricing, which brings us back to the first point, that everything might as well just be NPC driven, which might as well make it a couch co-op console game.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 02:14

#20

Fehzor

orly

Rigging the drop rates would not be hard at all. And no, the prices on AH would be set by their distribution of mats, as they'd still determine how many of one mat was made to drop. It wouldn't be hard at all, compared to the mountains of work the it took to make all of the weapons/damaging things in the game. In fact they're already rigged, just not in such a way that OOOs can take full advantage of.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 02:27

#21

Darkbrady

You think that means mats

You think that means mats aren't common though? Rich players can simply buy up all the cheap mats and put them back on teh AH for 10x the value; then that'd start affecting the equation that relates to how much total value drops from a floor.

If they were actually affecting the rate of drops though, then they're startin' to screw up with the game a hell of a lot for the sake of keeping the CE prices more stable than in the 5~7k margin that they perpetually hover in. People won't be best pleased if drop rates all completely change one day because the CE value needed fixing, even less so if someone does completely manipulate it as aforementioned anyways.

I really don't see what the problem is though. With the exception of T1 floors being too costy to run, the ce market is pretty locked to its current prices. Every time it gets beyond 7k, it completely crashes. The market will never allow for ce selling more than people can afford in a run. If the best run in the game makes 8k, and ce values are 9k, you will just not buy it; you're *losing* money then.
No one buys it, market crashes back to 5/6k again, everyone's happy. It happens every single time the price gets too high.. Best thing to do is just wait it out until it drops a bit, then buy up a heap. When it creeps up again, just sell it all off and wait it out again. There's absolutely no need to have it rigged.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 11:21

#22

Furaiz

econ

I made it to T2 without buying CE at any point. Its really easy to make money at T1 using mist energy only. In fact, after logging only about 4hrs total on my knight, I had bought a full T2 set.

I only bought my first 100 CE today, on my fourth day of playing with just the credits I got from my first JK run.

I have 10k cr as of this moment, an empty mist tank, and 60 CE...

I am now in the process of slowly building up my credit reserves with solo T1 runs

Tomorrow, I should be able to buy myself a Nightblade to start JK runs.
I can technically afford it now, but it would be stupid to leave myself with no cash reserves for CE or otherwise.
You can easily go from T1 to T2, just be responsible with your cash and energy.

Another thing to note, I have never made anything from a recipe, just bought the gears I wanted.

I don't plan to spend any real life cash on this game, you can get everything you want out of it, by playing the game.

If 100CE cost 3k, or whatever it used to be, I think I'd quite easily rack up ridiculous profits.

***And yes, I do make profit on solo T1 runs, all the materials do add up to make a good profit. They're mostly desirable materials too.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 11:30

#23

Njthug

I dont understand why we need

I dont understand why we need to fix something that is not broken.

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 11:43

#24

Trying

"All the energy that comes

"All the energy that comes from the market belongs to the players that already bought it"
False

Anyone remember Birdsong Trading Co. Giveaways?

Sat, 01/14/2012 - 23:01

#25

Quotefanboy

My idea on the game was this

Just a quick thought.

Make lower tiers give less profit, enough to where it'll be fair to the elevators price yet not enough to where it'll be easy money.

For example:

Tier 1 elevators will cost 3 CE, but the profits for an entire run would only yield around 1.2k Crowns Normal, and 2k Crowns if you do a boss run
Tier 2 elevators will cost 6 CE, but the profits would be around 2.5k Crowns normal and 4.5k Crowns if you do a boss run.
Tier 3 will cost as they are, and gains as they are, and you'd gain 4k Crowns normal, and 10k crowns if you do a boss run (Due to tier 5 bosses being of a much higher difficulty of that of other bosses. Aka: Vanaduke to Jelly king.)

This would allow tier 1 players to make profit, play longer, and enjoy the game. It could also allow older players to play longer, with just mist. Sure, they wouldn't make as much profit as playing Vanaduke (because 2k x 3 = 6k and Vanaduke is 10k), but it would allow more player activity and more fun, but with less profit. Sure I won't be able to get the full content as fast as others if I only play on mist in tier 1 with my 3-4 star gear, but I can still have fun for a good while until I run out of mist.

Just a personal idea. If you like it, or if you don't, that's up to you guys. Just dumping down my 2 cents of how I think I'd make it better for newer players.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 00:46

#26

Amnimonus

Lets think rationally

I know that most of us hate the high ce prices but we need to remember that this game needs to profitable for three rings in order to stay F2P or to be able to stay at all.
The only solution i see possible is that we need to compromise with three rings. In other word make the game more profitable for them but less expensive for us.

The only way I can think that this can be accomplished is to add some in game advertisements. In this sense three ring can make profit and then they can agree to lower or lock the prices of ce or at least sell a 1000 units of 100 ce every weak at 5000 per 100.

And for people who are P2P they can turn off ads if they buy at least 10 dollars of ce every two months and get discounts on certian items like usables (to make more tempting for some people to buy ce with real money)

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 01:53

#27

Skyber

I agree on lowering CE

I agree on lowering CE prices. I play everyday and have spent no real life money and I'm Tier 3. Even though I'm Tier 3 I'm not one of those people who can JK and FSC runs by themselves. When I first started playing CE costed 5000 crowns. Reducing CE prices will help a lot of people.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 02:25

#28

Skillkid

i agree with the lot

im in tier 2 and i think even though im almost all 4 star its gonna take me a few MONTHS to get tier 3 status.
I am getting bored with OUTRAGEOUS prices and im so annoyed cause now on jk i have to buy energy and that costs so much i dont get any profit of it!!!!!!!!!!!

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 02:40

#29

Darkbrady

@the last few posts: "I

@the last few posts:

"I really don't see what the problem is though. With the exception of T1 floors being too costy to run, the ce market is pretty locked to its current prices. Every time it gets beyond 7k, it completely crashes. The market will never allow for ce selling more than people can afford in a run. If the best run in the game makes 8k, and ce values are 9k, you will just not buy it; you're *losing* money then.
No one buys it, market crashes back to 5/6k again, everyone's happy. It happens every single time the price gets too high.. Best thing to do is just wait it out until it drops a bit, then buy up a heap. When it creeps up again, just sell it all off and wait it out again. There's absolutely no need to have it rigged."

Prices were 4~5k when I started too, and I started near launch. Any idea how many times the CE prices have gone up to 6~7k, and back down again?
Unless they introduce a commonplace method to earn more crowns per run than they currently do, CE will simply never cost more than than they already do. As things are, the current standard for cr-farming is JK runs; most players have access and decent ability to do him, not restricted only to T3 players and can be done in a reasonable time frame. Even FSC doesn't pay out as well as RJP (on a run/hour basis, that is), so CE will be capped at *lower* than the total average payout of a JK run. Once you can do a JK run, CE prices will never be a problem; it just takes patience.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 04:14

#30

Severage

@AboveQuote:

Whoever said "The market will never allow for ce selling more than people can afford in a run. If the best run in the game makes 8k, and ce values are 9k, you will just not buy it; you're *losing* money then."

This is not entirely true. While if it gets to 8k I don't think anyone is crazy enough to buy it, Elevator Passes leave mist for ressurecting-only. You might have to ressurect once or twice in a whole 8 depths doing JK, letting you do quite a few runs in a day. Which means you could get much more than what you're paying for in CE (Or in this case ME).

Also, "Once you can do a JK run, CE prices will *never* be a problem; it just takes patience." (Emphasis added on the never part)...

That's not true at all. When leveling gear avidly, I use all my mist daily on JK...and by the time all my 4* gear gets to level 10 (From level 1 4*), I have enough crowns to upgrade one, one single piece/weapon mind you, to 5*. Only if I find some great recipes from Basil (Dusker, Brandishes, SS Buckler, the good ones) can I make more crowns. CE prices are always a problem. You definitely must have patience though.

~Sev

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 04:24

#31

Darkbrady

Elevator Passes have loosened

Elevator Passes have loosened that rule of thumb slightly, but if you'll notice, since their introuction CE prices have yet to breach the JK payout threshold. This partly comes down to the fact that ME is still consumed for everything non-ce-specific, such as crafting as well, which people still focus their ME on. You may be able to run JK repeatedly with ME, but unless a vast, vast majority of the playerbase suddenly decides to get an ele pass, enough people will still be spending nearly as much on runs as they make, which will make them forever refuse to pay more than their earnings.
All it means is that instead of people buying CE for more, they just buy more CE with the extra cash. There's still a threshold on the price itself that too many people won't allow it to go past.
Put CE on the market for 9k and it will simply never sell.

Well yes, that's correct but getting into semantics. You could easily list out a bundle of reasons that puts down yoru ability to buy CE, including "I die a lot". My point was that when you can farm JK, you can effectively farm CE. How fast this actually comes in is down to the player. You might put crafting aside for a day, do ten runs and get 1k CE w/o hassle.
You might put CE aside for a day and do ten runs and craft a set up to 4*.
However you spend it, you'll be able to fund it by the time you're able to reliably farm JK, was all I meant.

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 04:39

#32

Severage

lol Well..

First of all...I don't have Elevator Pass. So 10 runs is a no-no. Limited to 1.2 per day (Which basically means every 5 days spare mist gives me an extra run, assuming I don't open gates, and am online at the perfect times).

Secondly though...10 runs??? That's 80 depths. That takes forever. I'm not sure who has enough time to grind out 10 runs of JK in a single day. Seems a bit ridiculous to me. But you never know, maybe that's how people get a 5* set to level 10 so fast. 10 FSC/JK runs in a day...sheesh.

~Sev

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 04:57

#33

Darkbrady

Not FSC, certainly not. (But

Not FSC, certainly not. (But JK can be finished in 30 mins if you skip to basil. Less than an hour if you include stratum3)
Altough, tangent aside...
I'm not endorsing actually sitting and doing 10 runs to make the money, absolutely not, you'd have to stop to pee! It was just an example of the fact that the money will be earnt the same, whatever use you put it towards is entirely up to you. If you do craft it away rather than spend it on CE, that's your choice, my initial point was simply that you would earn the raw cash eonugh to be able to afford the CE, if you so chose to buy it.

(also, people don't get 5* to +10 in JK, heat is pretty dodgy there; much, much faster doing even the first couple of floors of FSC, than an entire JK run)

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 21:03

#34

Severage

What Dark Ritual?

If...if you can skip to Basil. That's still about 6-8 hours if you start at Moorcroft every time. Of solid grinding.

But yes, I understand your point. According to that, I should make 100 CE per trip. So in about 9 days, I could change a single item to 5* from 4*, using ME only (Assuming I already had the recipe, and given the cost of Crowns/Mats/CE). That's...a long time. If I started doing JK when all my stuff just got 4*, it'd all be level 10 way before I could change it into 5*. That's all I'm arguing. Sure, it takes a while to get to level 10, but 9 JK runs per piece? It doesn't take that long to get level 10.

~Sev

Sun, 01/15/2012 - 22:21

#35

Darkbrady

Oh, by the last comment I

Oh, by the last comment I simply meant that the "heat/hour" rate in FSC is higher than JK, whereas JK has a better "crowns/hour" rate.

Altough, without heat amps, and a full loadout (2 armour parts, let's say 2 weapons and a shield?) I think would probably take a pretty long time to lvl from +1 to +10 in JK, 10 runs doesn't sound unrealistic. I do JK runs pretty often for the crowns and it doesn't heat up that well at all.

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 12:22

#36

Severage

What Dark Ritual?

Since JK is pretty much the only thing I do (Because I need the money for CE), I can almost guarantee you that 45 full stratums which include JK levels will have your 4* stuff level 10 plenty early. Red Carpet Runaround has pretty good amounts of heat; not so much for anything above 3* but even for 4* stuff it affects it pretty well until you hit about level 8/9. Then it takes a bit.

The argument that 45 sets of 8-depths to craft one set of gear sounds a bit silly to me. Like many have said before, 4* to 5* takes a month and a half to get, and that's if you're doing the *BEST* money-making in the game.

Again, I'm not saying that it should be overwhelmingly easy. Obviously that's how they make their money. But it really is a huge, well "turn-off", for lack of a better expression, to know that you won't get that next set of gear for almost 2 months, playing every day, at the best money-making spot in the game.

~Sev

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 14:17

#37

Hmmnm

Selling & buying CE should be like Auction house

The main problem with CE is that some players buy a bunch of CE and then put them back on the market for a much higher price to make more crowns
This artificially increases the market price.

Selling CE should be like the auction house; there should be a time limit and a fee to sell CE in the market.

....or is this already there and I didn't notice it?

Mon, 01/16/2012 - 15:13

#38

Aemicus

There is a fee to sell, but

There is a fee to sell, but only 2%, so if you watch the market you can resell CE for more than you bought it even with the increased prices. Maybe an increase in the fee, 5%, would stop this from happening.

Tue, 01/17/2012 - 20:57

#39

Dremius

Pumping in some Energy

I've heard somewhere that OOO was concerned about the rising CE prices a month ago when it was going up to 7.5k, and was considering pumping some CE into the market to lower the price, but instead had the Steam promotion bringing in a buttload of noobs that bought CE and put it into the market. I was thinking maybe they could do what they might have considered: put maybe around 5000 CE into the market to lower the price like once a week. Then the CE sellers wouldn't lose as much money so long as the CE pumped in isn't too much.

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