Hunter vs the World - Survival PvP game, complete with Classes, Skills, Maps and Pursuing Gameplay!!

375 replies [Last post]
Schattentag's picture
Schattentag
@Blue-Phaze

Well now in the list of topics, it says:
"[Page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 … Last Page(7)]"

Who knows what might happen. >_>

Hijadestone's picture
Hijadestone
@blue-phase

That was kinda my point it's always fun when the guys in proto gear all go striker one hit and your knocking on heavens doors but still I am wondering if trinkets will disrupt game play

Skold-The-Drac's picture
Skold-The-Drac
Trinkets will

disrupt gameplay a touch or five... but if there were a possibility of disabling the usefulness of trinkets that would be nice.

Blue-Phaze's picture
Blue-Phaze
I don't think heart trinkets

I don't think heart trinkets would be as gamebreaking as they are in Lockdown.
In LD they can literally triple your health, while in Survival, even though they'd obviously give you more chances to deal the Hunter some damage before you're dead, you'd still be quite vulnerable. And if you're the Hunter yourself, extra health would probably be most efficient when used by an Assassin whose only weaknesses are low health and speed. Although chances are that Hunters would win most rounds anyway.
But this is only about Heart Trinkets, I don't know anything about the others...

Hijadestone's picture
Hijadestone
True

LD is the only place trinkits matter so yea. Your right UVs would be more of a problem but still not much of one

Blue-Phaze's picture
Blue-Phaze
@Hijadestoneyeah, UVs might

@Hijadestone
yeah, UVs might even be more effective than trinkets if combined correctly. Although, even with UVs, the Hunter would still have more advantages than you, no matter which UVs you may have.
Only especific (and rare) combinations of UVs+Trinkets+Prey Class would cause the Hunter significant trouble, and unless the Hunter's a complete moron, he'd always be able to use his speed advantage to shoot you from a distance and avoid melee damage or AT LEAST give up on you and chase other Preys, if you're too troublesome.

Hijadestone's picture
Hijadestone
Finally back on the list

@bluephaze UVs won't have much effect most likely the only problem for me is I don't carry guns cause I always use swords so i guess I'll need so stock up

Aemicus's picture
Aemicus
@Hijadestone if you use slow

@Hijadestone if you use slow swords, the knockback could be useful. The real challenge is for people like me, who use brandish-flourish line combos.

-Eneal

Hijadestone's picture
Hijadestone
I

i have never had a problem with the slow swords exept for da and gf other wise they easy

Aemicus's picture
Aemicus
Whats the difference between

Whats the difference between a DA and a Suda for you?

-Eneal

Hijadestone's picture
Hijadestone
i have no clue

the guy must have ad an asi on it

Blue-Phaze's picture
Blue-Phaze
Heavy knockback swords would

Heavy knockback swords would give their wielder some advantage, that's for sure, but I think brandishes or other lighter swords wouldn't do so badly.
I should try to revive this thread once more... k, so, Lockdown and Blast Network both allow CE revivals and that means they're profitable for the devs, but Survival doesn't allow any of that at all, revives only happen at the start of each round.
So, how would the devs profit from Survival?

Softhead's picture
Softhead
Bribe krogmo's?

Have an higher chance of bomberheads for a higher max bribe cost(ie, 55)?

Skold-The-Drac's picture
Skold-The-Drac
Survival specific items

Start with bombheads... but I'd like to see the occasional identifiable survival item out....

Aemicus's picture
Aemicus
How about the hunter loses a

How about the hunter loses a random status resist (besides freeze and shock) for every 25 energy put in.

-Eneal

Blue-Phaze's picture
Blue-Phaze
@Aemicus

what if we work the other way around? Players could pay to have specific resistances during their Hunter round.
I once posted
"I made hunters immune to statuses because of possible exploits:
Strikers would freeze the hunter and boost away.
Triglav users would freeze the hunter and deliver massive damage.
Sudaruska users would stun the Hunter and run/boost away.
Faust users would block Hunters' weapons.
LOTS of players (Polaris, Magma Drivers, Furious Flamberges...) would put the hunter on fire for free damage.
etc. etc. etc."
but on a second thought it may not be that easy to escape the Hunter, due to its amazing speed, and Preys being able to deal more damage with those weapons wouldn't be a problem, it would be a strategy.
So, if Hunters weren't immune to status, the game would become more chalenging for them, more weapons and strategies would be viable choices, more weapons would be crafted to be used on Survival (CE sink = profit for the devs) and those status immunities would be put for sale (more profit).
Yes, the Hunter might become weaker when facing a group of Preys (or even become the Prey itself), but grouping is also a chalenge since the spawns are separated.
Should I change that in the OP?

Aemicus's picture
Aemicus
Erm... I think you should

Erm... I think you should automatically be immune to freeze, stun, and shock during the hunter round because all of those lower your movement speed. And making Hunters susceptible to curse could hurt those players who only have 2 weapon slots.

-Eneal

Blue-Phaze's picture
Blue-Phaze
That's the point, I think

That's the point, I think that'd add even more strategy in the game. Instead of just charging on any Prey, Hunters would actually have to think before doing anything, and even though those status would obviously be useful for Preys, stun wouldn't make the Hunter be slower than any of them, only less faster, shock only makes you stop walking for a few moments, but you'd easily catch up any nearby Prey after that, and freeze... well freeze would be the most hateful of them all, but hey, there are only 4 weapon lines in the whole game that inflict freeze (excluding Cold Snap and Frost Gun which are just...) and out of those, 2 are swords which can be easily avoided if you have guns and speed (and they only freeze with charge attacks); the other two are Hail Driver, which has slow bullets, and Shivermist Buster which is a bomb. Not many people use bombs.
So, Hunters would definitely become weaker, but not exactly underpowered (the way I see it) and they can always use freeze resistant gear like Skolver and Dread Skelly or even buy the immunity itself for some CE.
And the devs would get their profits. ^^

Oh, and about curse, only Faust deals it and like the others swords, can be easily avoided if you have guns and speed.
(I hope I got you convinced now =P)

Skold-The-Drac's picture
Skold-The-Drac
hm....

The removal of status immunities would force more strategy on the hunter's behalf.. but I don't think complete removal is necessary... if the hunter's buffs are still within the same lines that the devs have set in place (aka Maximum anything is the highest buff on any/all weapons or armor) then I think the hunter will require a stronger status immunity than what is the norm... maybe a medium immunity?

My argument is that for the devs to implement this quickly... the hunter needs to stay within the parameters that've been set within SK (the maximum limit problem if you will) For bombardiers most particularly if not the assassin class as well (won't guarantee anything on juggy's behalf) setting more than two bombs (which may seem to be a lot but isn't until you've reached T3) or shooting will be hard... because while they can most assuredly move... most assuredly make damage happen... they're still stuck within SK's particular parameters... (I believe a max damage uv anything makes only an extra 6th of damage compared to the unaltered product? Correct me if I'm wrong but I have little to reference)

Hunters in general will require an excess of the maximum parameter to be viable as a status prone person. I feel strongly that provided with about half immunity to all statuses, the hunter will remain powerful... but again will require an inkling of strategy when becoming involved with prey. (Again, this is based on the concept that the maximum limit is still enforced (aka if CTR Max is all I can get why even go bombardier? If I could get Max + Med. or so... then we could talk)

Blue-Phaze's picture
Blue-Phaze
So you're saying that if the

So you're saying that if the devs didn't let bonuses go beyond that limit (which is only present within ASI, CTR and Damage bonuses) Bombardiers would have a hard time. . .
Well, if you consider that each CTR degree removes around 7.5% of the bomb's basic charge time (according to the wiki), a Very High bonus would remove around 30% of it, and that combined with the CTR: Medium every weapon receives at heat-level 10, it would become a Maximum! with 45% of Charge Time Reduction. Same goes for Damage Bonuses, which gives 7% bonus for each degree.
So I think the Max! limit wouldn't be much of a problem, since 42% and 45% are considerably high '-'
Also remember that Bombardiers can use the Iron Ability to avoid charge cancelling.

About Statuses, I think too that the Hunters should still have some resistance but not complete immunity (which should only be accessible via purchase) in order to remain powerful. I guess a basic resistance of 25% of the damage and/or duration of said status should be fair, with a limit of 60%, to prevent stacking of resistances from reaching immunity.

Skold-The-Drac's picture
Skold-The-Drac
Was unsure of reliable percentages

I'll be honest... I believe some information more than others... ANYWAY! I didn't realize that the max actually brought damage up so far... I knew ctr did a decent job just didn't know about damage...

As for the 25% resist as base, I agree to it.

Stacking resistance using ce is something I agree to as well.

Hoping that the Iron Ability wouldn't be too hard to implement....

Skillkid
T mode

how about a totally different thing (3 in total) called T mode or perhaps TS Mode (its abreviating team swap which is wat it is. I hope im resiuecting the post cause of balancing this :). i guess it will be a timer of x minutes if the hunter kills he gains cr per prey and when the timer ends the prey alive get cr. Hows this.

Hijadestone's picture
Hijadestone
You know

i think that for the devs to be more likely to accept this you should be able to buy upgrades such as more power to your weapons, even more speed, resists to statuses, and charge time reductions and asu increases

Aemicus's picture
Aemicus
I'm gonna have to disagree

I'm gonna have to disagree with the weapon upgrades for purchase. It would unbalance it too much.

-Eneal

Blue-Phaze's picture
Blue-Phaze
@SkoldI hope too, but I

@Skold
I hope too, but I think it wouldn't involve much proggraming, I guess simple tweaks in the current code should do the trick.
@Skillkid
Hmmm.. I didn't get much of what you wrote, but I don't think it would be good to reward players mid-match. Too much balancing involved and it doesn't follow the model settled by OOO for PvP games (rewarding players 70% of what they spent).
@Hijadestone
What Aemicus said. Actually, I'm only even considering status immunity being for sale because statuses are not exactly vital for fair gameplay, they're just a small bonus some weapon offer.

I guess no more points against removing the Hunter's immunities will be made, so I'll just change the OP now.

EDIT:
Changed the OP:
-Fixed a small contradiction between Hunters' Movement Speed Increase and the Speed Scale. Their speeds should be way higher than what an 'MSI:Medium/High' would provide, so I changed it to 'MSI: Ultra x5/x3' (Five 'Ultra' bonuses? I know it seems too high but it just doubles the normal speed).
-Fixed some phrases' structures.
-Due to the game's extended time, I figured it should be fairer to double both entry fees and rewards for Normal mode (Frenzy still costs 200 cr with unchanged rewards). Should I raise it even more? Half an hour is a quite long time to get only up to 820 cr, actually.
-And of course, removed Hunter's immunities and added "Status Resistances and Immunities" under "Hunter Gameplay".

Aemicus's picture
Aemicus
Maybe half an hour is too

Maybe half an hour is too long... only making half the people hunters would be better, and it would keep people playing so they would have a chance to be the hunter too.

-Eneal

Blue-Phaze's picture
Blue-Phaze
I wanted all of the players

I wanted all of the players to be the Hunter once per match because that's the core moment of the game (Try out the classes and abilities and having the chance to score big points) and because a Hunter's score would be in general lower or higher than a Prey's (can't know for sure, too many variables to estimate), and that'd make it unfair to those who got lower scores because they were/weren't Hunters for a round.
Ok, so the solution would be either to lower each round's limit time, which I think would unbalance the game a bit, or to make Frenzy the main version of Survival (Since it can only last for 6 minutes), while the Normal mode would just be for those who like a more suspenseful match.

Hey, I just noticed another stupid detail which could unbalance the game. In Lockdown, Guardins receive a health bonus of 9 bars and that, in Tier 1, would make them have more health than Assassins and Bombardiers, as well as getting quite close to a Juggernaut's health and to an Assassin's health in T2. I thought of removing the health bonuses and penalty from Prey classes, but realized it would very likely make Strikers stand out even more when compared to the other two.
Any other way around that?

Aemicus's picture
Aemicus
Guardians don't receive extra

Guardians don't receive extra health in T1 or 2 in lockdown already.

-Eneal

Blue-Phaze's picture
Blue-Phaze
lol I haven't played LD for

lol I haven't played LD for quite some time now and I completely forgot about that. I guess that problem never existed, then =)
But hey, do you still think only half the players should be Hunters? I think the best option (with lesser impacts on gameplay) would be raising prices and rewards a lil bit again, or to make Frenzy the 'official' version.
If you think about it, the first option (raising values) should be the wisest choice, because as things are now, anyone would be able to play for half an hour spending only 400 crowns. In the clockworks, half an hour would take at least 50 energy from you and in lockdown, that'd be over 1000 crowns.

Skold-The-Drac's picture
Skold-The-Drac
Normal mode

The original mode can have a charge of 1k cr... deposit rewards accordingly.

I think frenzy mode would get more play, but to keep exploitability out giving our original mode a 1k cr cost would make things simple.

However... I think if the devs do apply anything out of this... they're more likely to give frenzy mode a shot than our original mode. If only to maintain the "minigame" feel, in place of "ohmygod the game has a complete arena dedication".

Still gonna gun for the normal mode if only for the awesomesauce of 30 minutes of playing. (I see a lot of leavers in normal mode to be brutally honest... I mean we have them in BN and LD on a fairly regular basis, that's only a 5th of the time... )

Aemicus's picture
Aemicus
I just think that 30 minutes

I just think that 30 minutes is waaay to long to spend on a minigame with uncertain rewards. It could quickly become a game where only a few very good players play it.

-Eneal

Blue-Phaze's picture
Blue-Phaze
You're both right, I think

You're both right, I think new players may like quicker matches better, and the longer ones would very likely be played by the more experienced. A thousand crowns seems like a reasonable price too.
I'll try to figure out the best reward distribution for a thousand crowns fee and will update the OP afterwards.

EDIT:
I figured I should restrict the use of trinkets, as they would ruin Survival (like they did with LD), so I edited Basics a bit.
The old Frenzy mode is now 'official' and the 11-player game is now called "Extended mode".
Prices and Prizes for the Extended mode have been raised.

There are still a couple of things I'd like to discuss before finally moving this to graveyard:
- Costs and duration of status immunities.
- Duration of the Iron ability for Bombardiers which should be determined by the current shield power.

btw, I was joking. No way I'm graveyarding my thread!! =p

Aemicus's picture
Aemicus
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Don't make it a thousand crowns! Whatever you do, do not do that! I know that I, and probably the rest of the F2P community, would never throw a thousand crowns at a game with limited chance of getting it back. We just don't have the resources to do that.

-Eneal

Blue-Phaze's picture
Blue-Phaze
I know it's a bit expensive,

I know it's a bit expensive, but that's a fairer price for that much playtime... And a thousand crowns is not even close to what you'd spend in half-an-hour in the Clockworks, and is somewhat the same you'd spend in Lockdown.

Aemicus's picture
Aemicus
Ugh, fine. But don't expect

Ugh, fine. But don't expect many players. Could the faster version be less?

Blue-Phaze's picture
Blue-Phaze
Of course, Frenzy would still

Of course, Frenzy would still cost 200 crowns, I've only changed prices for Extended matches.
Or did you mean less than 200 crowns?

Aemicus's picture
Aemicus
No, I meant less than 1K

No, I meant less than 1K crowns. I was just an idiot and didn't check the price for it first :P

-Eneal

Softhead's picture
Softhead
The iron ability is going to be useless,

With the new, upcoming charge changes.

Skold-The-Drac's picture
Skold-The-Drac
Iron ability revamp

Invincibility frames for short period of time?

Blue-Phaze's picture
Blue-Phaze
The upcoming charge changes

The upcoming charge changes would make them invincible only after it's fully charged, while Iron would make them invincilble at all times.
Not quite uselss, but definitely less effective. I agree we should revamp it a lil bit, although invincibility frames would depend fully on luck and not on strategical use of it (I hate anything luck based, specially Lockdown)... Maybe we should make it active at all times, just like the Flair; I've always thought the Assassin had a certain advantage over the other two classes, because it doesn't need to worry about using its ability at the right time since it's always active.
I think it would be nice to have those skills as passive characteristics. Of course it'd make things a bit easier for Hunters but it's a way to compensate for the Status Immunity loss.

Aemicus's picture
Aemicus
How about an ability that

How about an ability that allows bombers to insta charge for a short period of time, say 10 seconds or so.

Hijadestone's picture
Hijadestone
I have a feeling

that extended mode will end up like guild LD and BN no one plays it cause it is so boring I am a f2p person so I don't have that much to spare and I don't remember are there kromo coins in this but yea you dont think about the fact that it costs the same

Blue-Phaze's picture
Blue-Phaze
Instant charge would

Instant charge would certainly result in spam or even lag if used with certain bombs, Aemicus. Also, Bombardiers already have a great CTR bonus, if they could just charge instantly, even if it's for a limited time, that bonus would be rendered almost useless because both would make the exact same thing. Not counting it's not 'unique' enough for a Skill either (like Bound and Flair).
Making the Iron Skill permanent would probably be a better choice, don't you think so? '-'

@Hijadestone
Yup, I have that feeling too, but it's just an alternative for those who like more hardcore matches, anyway.
And yes, As the OP says: "Bribing King Krogmo for Krogmo Coins or other prizes would work as usual."

btw, sorry for being so slow on the responses, guys. I can't log on too many times per day, you know... IRL stuff...

Aemicus's picture
Aemicus
Iron mode always on seems a

Iron mode always on seems a little OP. I have another idea.
Anyone play Starcraft II here? You know how stimpack works? Basically, it would be an ability that sped up every action for a certain period of time, not only CTR, but running, placing down the bomb, and how long it takes for the bomb to explode. The running speed would be about a 12 on the movement scale.

-Eneal

Hijadestone's picture
Hijadestone
Yea

i took a break from suggestions as you can tell from differences in time between posts

Redlawlsy's picture
Redlawlsy
WOW!

Man, this is one of the best ideas I've ever heard on the forums! Devs, you guys would be nuts not to put this in!!!

Blue-Phaze's picture
Blue-Phaze
@Aemicus I think boosting all

@Aemicus
I think boosting all of those aspects altogether could potentialy unbalance the game (it feels like Bombardiers would get overpowered), but a "Countdown Time Reduction" seems to be ok (the time it takes for the bomb to explode). The new charge changes and CTR together wouldn't make it that easy to interrupt a bombardier's charge, making its current Skill kind of useless. Yup, I think a Countdown Time Reduction would be a nice replacement for the Iron Skill (reducing it to 50% sounds ok to me), don't you think so?

@Damastaa
Thank you, man!! Would you like to help us out? I'm all open for suggestions, just tell me whatever comes in your mind ^^

Aemicus's picture
Aemicus
Ya, idk how they would make

Ya, idk how they would make it work, but speeding up the time of explosions sounds like it would be really nice for bombers.

Blue-Phaze's picture
Blue-Phaze
Glad you agreed. Although it

Glad you agreed. Although it kind of leaves the Juggernaut with a disadvantage... the other two have passive skills while Juggy has that extra thing to be concerned about.
Oh and btw, do you have any other name for "Countdown Time Reduction"? I'd like to keep it short, like 'Bound' and 'Flair'...

Skold-The-Drac's picture
Skold-The-Drac
Tick?

Call it Tick?

dunno.... Hunter's Tick.... Hunter's Short (Fuse).... Hunter's Temper?