High Explosives? Time Warp? Short Fuse? CDTR? Barrage? (Haha, Bombardiers Barrage).
Hunter vs the World - Survival PvP game, complete with Classes, Skills, Maps and Pursuing Gameplay!!
Mon, 04/23/2012 - 13:32
#352
High Explosives? Time Warp?
Mon, 04/23/2012 - 18:15
#353
@Helioflame
Wow, thanks for that wall of suggestions, although most of them seem a bit unviable to me. Here's why:
"Gameplay Tweaks:"
I find this really unnescessary, sorry to say that. First of all, there is no reason why the Hunter should fall; he's a tough guy, he can't just "drop as if dead" at every hit, come on. And filling the Hunter with UVs and bonuses only to compensate for his fall sounds way too excessive (loads of balancing involved too). Not counting that getting points from damaging and killing the Hunter is an incentive not to sit down at a corner for the whole game (other players who do have the guts to go face the Hunter might have the top scores at the end of the match).
"Class:"
Juggernaut
Wep Bonus: Its damage bonus affects any kind of weapon, if it was any stronger, every player, gunner, bomber or swordsman, would want to be the Juggernaut.
Health: Each Hunter class is designed after a characteristic. Juggernaut's characteristic is endurance. It is designed to have a high health bonus. That's why I wouldn't lower it.
Movement Speed: It is already faster than strikers (even when they're boosting). Just look at the Speed Scale and you'll understand that.
Abilities: there is no "potential speed issue", see above.
Assassin
Wep Bonus: Hell, no. Why do you think so? That's OP.
Health: It is much easier to deal with health bars than with defence penalties, as both have the exact same result.
Abilities: The Flair (its ability) already does that. And Assassins are already faster than strikers (just like any other Hunter) otherwise, strikers would be overpowered (just boost away to their freedom). And 3x faster would be freaking OP. Why are you even considering that?
Bombardier
You mean, making an "All-around" class? Juggernaut are kind of like that already since they have bonuses for every weapon. And if you haven't noticed, this class is already designed to make a bomber deadly. lol did you even read the bonuses? CTR and Damage bonus Very High?
"Prey vs Hunter Advantages and Counters:"
Striker
Ok, they should NOT be faster than any Hunter. OTHERWISE they would be overpowered, every Prey would choose to be a Striker and no Hunter would ever be able to kill a single Prey, if not by mere luck.
Recon
Complete invisibility would make Recons overpowered as well. They would just sit in a corner and become invisible whenever the Hunter passes by. Every Prey would choose to be a Recon and no Hunter would ever be able to kill a single Prey, if not by mere luck.
Guardian
"potentially survive and kill an Assassin" NO. Don't know if you noticed, but no Assassin would be able to win a round if they're almost certain to die at their first stumble upon a Guardian.
Don't tell me anything about your "Counters:" as they are, in essence, contradictory or at least not very likely to happen.
"General Points:"
1. I can agree with this one. Actually it is supposed to be that way, but I seem to have forgotten to add it to the OP.
2. Well, their first reaction would be to try and shield-bump, as that would work against any Hunter. And they should be prepared for ambushes in the first place.
3. Not really. I discussed with Darkbrady about ganging against the Hunter on the first page. We concluded that Preys would have bigger chances of surviving if they hide instead. Plus, it wouldn't be easy to gang up, as they respawn at distant places.
4. Wait, what? You'll kill your murderer? How, if you're dead? Also, there wouldn't be any groups/gangs, again (it's just not worth making one)
5. Just tell me how they'd have trouble against a single Prey... And no to shockwaves, they sound way too OP.
"On a side Note:"
Striker won't be a problem, they are not faster than any Hunter, they are just a bit harder to catch. That is all.
Hey, sorry to have rejected all of your suggestions, but I think you misunderstood most of my thread... =/
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@Skold and Aemicus
I like 'Tick' and 'Barrage'. But maybe I should go for 'Short Fuse', as you both suggested?
Tick is a fun way to refer to the countdown's ticks.
Short Fuse kind of implies that Bombardiers are temperamental. Double meanings are fun =p
And Barrage just sounds epic, even though it doesn't resemble the ability entirely.......
well I guess Short Fuse should do it, after all.
EDIT:
Alright, Short Fuse it is. I also edited the Basics to tell that the chat would be disabled.
Mon, 04/23/2012 - 18:44
#354
Bombers short fused?
youdon'tsay.gif
Aaaaaaanywaaay... yeah short fuse sounds most fitting at the moment. :)
As far as Mr. Tweak... I think tweaks should be discussed in detail after some testing is performed in this minigame. The system, although within the boundaries of much of the SK we've seen, is very different in it's own right with the hunter element.
Mon, 04/23/2012 - 23:04
#355
Hmm...
1. Maybe I didnt describe these suggestions the correct way.
2. I didnt realize how fast they would be with their walking speed, probably didnt see the ultra besides the multiplication.
Question: How fast is a striker boost? Is it actually just twice the normal walking speed?
3. I couldnt read all the 350 posts.
4. I have new suggestions (and changes and rephrasing of old suggestions).
The first suggestion:
1. It does not mean hell fall from every hit. Itll be like he had died, all the hp reduced to 0. This only happens if you actually manage to kill him.The animation will show him dropping like it currently does when you die. Because he is tough, hell never actually die but just be immobilized.
2. The revenge kill system might be overpowered as I said. Although, I said that hell be immobilized if they manage to "kill" him, giving enough time to run away. The invulnerability is used to counter any exploits. The speed boost and damage boost is overpowered when realizing how fast they already are.
3. Facing the hunter is your decision as a group or single person. Fight or flight? When the time comes, youll have to decide whether to run away from a chasing hunter. Whether you think its a good decision to stay in a corner or keep moving to avoid getting caught, both will have an equally positive and negative effect.
shield bump
Classes
Juggernaut
Wep bonus: I didnt realize they would be that fast so I suggested an increase to have something to kill if it actually caught up. As a bomber, I thought it would still be different since I thought it would be slower.
Health: I suggested it be slightly lowered because of my other suggestion to allow for a revive after "death". The hp would still be greatly higher than the other classes.
Movement speed: Well, I think it should be slower than other classes to make it more exclusive. I just think the fastest speed would be more appropriate for an assassin.
Abilities:
1. The shockwave would of course be overpowered with that speed. It could only apply if it was slower. It would be a non-lethal mechanism to catch and stun other players. Forgot to include this: shield shockwaves would not be created at every bump. It would need a higher cooldown time.
2. Just to summarize my comment on the rest of the abilities: these would fit well only if it was slower.
Assassin
Again, I meant to make it into a "glass cannon."
Wep Bonus: I suggested this increase to make it exclusively offensive. Making up for having paper defenses.
Health: Having low hp and lower defenses will definitely make it have paper defenses (maybe just doing hp would be easier as you suggested). It would destroy any single target if it could avoid being hit often, which could more likely happen with even 2-3 people. The defenses could be lowered even more if the abilities seem too strong (cloak, speed, attack and widened vision).
Movement Speed:
Its walking speed should be just slightly faster than normal players. It gets its speed from cloaked boost.
Abilities:
1.It would both cloak and boost as its shield ability, at the same speed as any striker. The advantage would be that it can boost for a longer period of time and its half invisible. The shield would take a hefty toll if hit while boosted. Fast sneak attacks would be the way to take down opponents. Note: I dont think anything should be faster than a striker, just the same speed maybe.
2.I was taking about the flair ability. Mines just a more powerful version. It can see all which would help a sneaky hunter. Its like heat sensors, able to see through walls (only the outlines). It would still see players in blind spots.
Bombardier
1.I just mentioned a separate third class with overall abilities so all three classes would be useable with any wep. A bomber juggernaut (at least my version) could easily be powerful. I saw bombing overlapping. Thats why mentioned a third class with unique abilities but I meant it would help a bomber in another unique way. I thought this could allow more experimenting.
2. I do now think that bombing could work as separate class. Even with its current stats, it doesnt seem powerful enough. Note: The power for the classes should depend on abilities than stats. I think the speed is increased way too much in general for classes. I think it would be better to find a way to make them effective without increasing their speed too much, putting more emphasis on abilities. Just a thought.
Suggestions for bombing class:
1. I think a shorter fuse time could bring about several problems. It could produce bad lag. I think it would be easier to just increase power.
2. The haze bombs could maybe last longer. A bomber setting up traps. Im not sure about this ability. Could increased haze time overpower bombers?
3. Im not sure if this was mentioned in one of the 300 posts but how about all bomb charges, no matter where in the charge, be uninterrupted. It seems something very essential.
4. I think it should be faster than a juggernaut but slower than Assassin boost speed.
5. This is a suggestion for an alternative version of bomber abilities.
a. This bomber would be equipped with a bomber suit that has been modified to output power at a higher level but for shorter periods of time (this is closer to a game description than an explanation of abilities).
b. This bomber would have average bomber hp, speed and abilities (charges interrupted).
c. It would have an "Overdrive" ability in which the bomber will gain high stats for a short period of time. It would be almost invincible (high resistances or health), it would have strong damage, and run at striker boost speed. He would be able to charge bombs while going at this speed. The bomber would look bright red while using it with a red stream while it runs (same as striker but different color).
It would not have a shield. Its shield would be the activation of the ability which drains the shield. The ability cannot be turned off once its on until it drains the shield. There would be a cool down time to use the ability again in which the bomber becomes normal.
The balancing would be based on how long the ability should last and how long would it take to reactivate.
Hunter vs. Prey advantages/counters
I knew I could run into problems here. Just the title itself might cause a misunderstanding.
Striker: never said it was faster than it should be. I said it would be able to keep up with assassin for "a while." Both of them have same boost speed. Assassin's boost lasts longer.
Recon: I said they would be invisible but give off a pulse once every two regular pulses. I did say that maybe even less if it seems overpowered.
The pulse only alerts hunter. That's it.
It doesn't mean that a speeding Assassin will not get alerted while passing. Personally, I think your idea might be simpler than mine, my only thought being whether the half cloak is enough to balance it with other 2 classes.
Guardian:
The only thing I meant is that they have a higher survivability when going toe to toe with Assassin. This does not mean that the Assassin wont easily break the shield and dispatch of them. Assassin is meant to have a higher attack.
If you understand all this, I shouldn't have to address my general points.
Last suggestion:
While I was thinking of the bombing class being exclusive (bombs being underused), I thought of a gunner class in which it would force people to use only guns. Ill explain what this fourth hunte class consists of when I have the time. I thought it would be called "sniper" or "sharpshooter" but it doesn't seem original enough.
BOOM! WALL!
Better a thoughtful wall than a crappy comment.
Tue, 04/24/2012 - 17:15
#356
Why are you trying to change
Why are you trying to change everything... leave it alone, unless you can see very specific points that would be detrimental to the game. Or I guess unless Blue likes his thread being redone.
Tue, 04/24/2012 - 18:56
#357
"How fast is a striker boost?
"How fast is a striker boost? Is it actually just twice the normal walking speed?"
I don't know how fast it is in Lockdown, but in Survival it would be as fast as an Assassin (Ultra x3 / 160%).
"I couldnt read all the 350 posts."
You don't need to, actually. I've been trying to make the OP a summary of everything we discuss, except for strategies, so if you pay close attention to each word there, you shouldn't have a problem.
"The first suggestion:"
1. OOOHH I get it, you meant he wouldn't die, just fall unconscious for 5 seconds. You know that the Hunter dying would be an uncommon event, as rounds would frequently just run out of time since most players are medium-skilled (a low-skilled Hunter would die, and a high skilled would catch all Preys). So, even if it's all balanced out it wouldn't have much impact on the actual gameplay and at this point, the thread is practically complete, so discussing a balance for that is out of my to-do list. Not counting also, that "killing" the Hunter should be way more gratifying than "knocking it out", so that would remove a bit of the incentive to get your ass out there and KILL that bastard. Although if you get more players to like your idea, I would certainly give it another chance...
Juggernaut
"Movement speed:"
Like I said, each Hunter has a characteristic and a weakness, the Juggernaut has endurance, and should not die easily or even care about health at all, but it's not very powerful. The Assassin is really subtle, it can notice, approach and kill Preys with ease, even though it's not quite fast. And the Bombardier is powerful, it should be able to kill a Prey with about 2 bomb hits, but is not very versatile or easy to handle since it's speciallized for bombers (wihch are quite rare).
that's why they don't need to be whatever their names make them sound like they are.
"Abilities:"
"these would fit well only if it was slower."
Yep, they would, although if it was slower, strikres would rule the match, just like in LD. I don't want it to be like LD.
Assassin
"Wep Bonus:" and "Health:" Their ability to surprise the enemy already makes up for the lack of health, becuase if you kill an enemy before he even notices you... well he can't damage you... because he's dead. That should've been obvious from the start. '-'
But you know, it's not really hard to spot invisible chromalisks and Assassins wouldn't be either. So I might re-think this later.
"Movement Speed:" How would it be faster with a cloak on top of it? That doesn't even make sense... And they are already a bit faster than Preys, don't worry about that.
Abilities:
"Note: I dont think anything should be faster than a striker, just the same speed maybe." Why. Not? Strikers would RULE the match if they were faster than any Hunter. Even if they're not able to kill or run from the Hunter by themselves, they would still be able to deliver massive damage, just like they do in Lockdown, and that would definitely break the game because Hunters would very likely die when facing a striker for the third or fourth time on the match.
2. I know, that was what I meant also. The Flair can see any Prey behind the blind zone.
Bombardier
1. I thought through all the three classes, and I don't think all of them need to be "useable with any weapon", that's just asking for the same all-around class three times. The classes are specialized after the three kinds of weapons: Juggernauts for swordsmen (they need more health, as they fight the closest to the enemy) allowing a few supporting weapons; Assassins for gunners (they fight from a distance, and the Flair is perfect to overcome their lack of long-distance sight) and is also good for heavy sword users; And Bombardiers for bombers, for obvious reasons.
I thought through all the classes. All of them have strenghts and weaknesses be it related to its status or ideal weapon. There is no way a player wouldn't like any of the them.
You said you're a bomber, so if you use bombs as a support weapon the best choice would probably be the Juggernaut, although if you are a pure bomber, you might as well choose the Bombardier, which would, in fact, be powerful; it would run and place bombs twice as fast as a normal bomber, and that would allow them to place the bomb almost anywhere around the Prey, confuse it, and land a couple of strikes which would be sufficient to kill it. If you don't think that's powerful enough, I don't know the kind of firepower you want.
2. Ok, if can come up with a decent ability able to make up for their slower speed (slower than a mere striker) I'd like to hear it.
"Suggestions for bombing class:"
1. You can avoid a bomb with ease if you know where to run, that's why I decided to decrease it. They already have a damage increase and increasing it any higher would be pointless. There is a 'low quality' setting for lag issues.
2. Yup, it would certainly be overpowered, as the maps are already filled with traps, gates and narrow paths which could be easily blocked by haze bombs and a smart Bombardier.
3. This was the Bombardier's previous Skill, but since OOO made charges be uninterruptable when completed and the Bombardier would have a great CTR, the only moment Preys would have to interrupt them would be quite short, and the Skill would be close to useless. So, we changed it to Short Fuse, as you can see.
4. Any special reason for that? And Assassins do not have a boost, their walk is simply faster than a striker's boost.
5. I'm not very fond of 'rage modes' or anything similar, just let it be a normal class, k?
"Hunter vs. Prey advantages/counters"
Striker:
I'll just retype the speed scale a lil diferently for ya, k?
Striker walking < Striker boosting = Assassin walking = Assassin cloaking
there is no Assassin Boost, mmkay?
Recon:
Invisibility is complex to deal with as it would either be useless or overpowered. So I decided to make them half-invisible like chromalisks, since even though they're not that hard to spot they're still not that obvious. No need to "alert the Hunter" if they are minimally visible.
Guardian:
Alright then. Assassins are indeed slower than other Hunters so you might have assumed it right, when you said they'd be a bit stronger against them.
"Last suggestion:"
Of course they would be underused, because bombs themselves are uderused also. My concern is about it being under/overpowered. A Bombardier wouldn't force you to use only bombs, since it is an option out of three.
I hope you got it all now ^^ sry for having reject all of that, but I don't think the game would be the least balanced that way.
Wed, 04/25/2012 - 04:11
#358
Ok then.
You understood what I was trying to say a bit better but you haven't completely understood what im saying. It seems that you would only understand completely if I were to chat with you in game. That's not necessary of course as the thread is almost complete. It would be tiring to continue to respond in the forums and for you to respond so ill leave it at that. Only a small percentage was about actual balancing. Well thanks anyway for trying to respond thoroughly.
Thu, 04/26/2012 - 16:21
#359
=/
k, no problem, I guess.
I know little of it was about balancing, but the fact is that some of your suggestions just wouldn't be that good for the game at all. For example, strikers being faster than a Hunter. It doesn't matter if the Hunter had this or that skill, strikers would still be the preferred of the three Prey clases and it would make Survival way too alike Lockdown.
And your suggestions about changes on all the Hunter classes certainly need some more thinking through. You see, it's been 8 pages of discussion and we've just finished discussing that Bombardier Skill.
Well, anyway, thanks for giving the thread a bit of its life back ;)
EDIT:
I was browsing through old comments and remembered I hadn't added under "Hunter Gameplay" that Assassins would have a shorter clear sight than of Juggernauts and Bombardiers. Fixed now. I'm a perfectionist, ikr.
Sun, 04/29/2012 - 23:37
#360
*achoo*
*achoo*
Wed, 05/02/2012 - 16:16
#361
*cough* *cough*
*cough* *cough*
Thu, 05/03/2012 - 21:55
#362
Okay, seriously, this is
Okay, seriously, this is completely worked through. If OOO doesn't give us a sign soon that they are working on it, idk if they ever will.
Fri, 05/04/2012 - 22:40
#363
Boop.
I booped this on the nose. Oh look 1st page!
Sat, 05/05/2012 - 02:47
#364
-
+1
Sun, 05/06/2012 - 12:19
#365
think.
- i think the hunter should not be allowed to see the prey name that way they could not say to someone they know ill leave u for last.
-if any player leaves, the time will be shorten by 18 seconds, so that's a plus.
- i don't think that each player needs to be the hunter out of the 11 players. it could just be three rounds and randomly one out of the 11 players should be the hunter for each round. that way it doesn't have to be that long, unfortunately u might not be the hunter. A way to counter this would be to have a chance percentage on each player, so that if you do not get to be the hunter in one game, the chance for you to be the hunter in another game rises, so that if you play most of the day, you will have a chance to be the hunter.
this is a really nice idea, i didn't read through the whole thing, i read 2 pages and was tired to read the rest so i hope what i said wasn't said before.
very nice idea though. i support it.
Sun, 05/06/2012 - 12:08
#366
-_-
Um just ignore that last post.,
Sun, 05/06/2012 - 12:24
#367
Oh, Blandaxt. Either you have
Oh, Blandaxt. Either you have no idea what you're talking about when you post on the forums, or you're an extremely successful troll.
Mon, 05/07/2012 - 11:46
#368
Aww come on guys, he might be
Aww come on guys, he might be annoying on other threads, but he made a constructive comment this time :3
- His first suggestion is really good, for instance. Alliances might show up at some point, and would either be between friends trying to get top scores together or a single dude with two accounts trying to get both of them to the top 3 (or 6) to get more profits for his main. Just imagine a Juggernaut letting his friend or alt destroy most of his health bars for points. In Tier 3, his friend would get around 20 extra damage points for having hit the Hunter that much. Hell, or even kill his alt when it becomes the Hunter for loads of free points (damage + survival + killer).
- "so that's a plus" What do you mean?
- Your third suggestion wouldn't help Extended Mode that much. Yes, it would shorten the match's time, but that way the winners would be chosen by luck, not skill. You see, Preys and Hunters have different ways of racking up points (Hunters can get from 0 to 9 points or 25 if they ace the round, and Preys can get 0, 5, 10 or 30 points) and that would lead to a difference on the scores of those who got to be the Hunter and those who did not. And also consider we would still have Frenzy Mode for quick matches, no need to change Extended just for that.
EDIT: Added that first suggestion to the Basics.
@Aemicus
I higly doubt they ever will... Since the release of Frostbite the devs don't seem to be interested on anything PvP. =/
@Skold
.....what's with the avatar change, Skold?
Oh, and ty Contri :D I'm glad I still get +1's.
Tue, 06/05/2012 - 05:48
#369
CHANGING MY AVATAR!!
thank you for showing interest. And I dunno... got sick of looking at my love puppy avatar... so I decided to go volc salamander... I have come for your coins infidels muhahaha.
But seerusly just looking to change my avatar :P
(Edit: Dat Gravedigging Necro)
Wed, 10/10/2012 - 06:58
#370
Blast from the past
Bump
Mon, 11/11/2013 - 23:49
#371
HEYOOOOOOOOO
Realized I had this link saved on a sticky note. I haven't played since June 2012, anyone mind telling me if this ever got implemented? Cause we spent some serious time on it and it was freakin awesome.
Tue, 11/12/2013 - 05:12
#372
Cause this is thriller! Thriller night!
A short time browsing through the patch notes history would thoroughly disappoint you.
Tue, 11/12/2013 - 19:33
#373
Dis thread
Ah this thread... I missed it.
Thu, 05/21/2015 - 21:13
#374
Oh wow...
Is anyone still around who worked on this originally with me? Or are we all gone?
Btw still think this should get made...
Fri, 07/03/2015 - 02:18
#375
+1
Nice idea like it. Please loook my idea too for a better gameing http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/110755
I think I might be able to offer a few helpful suggestions.
Gameplay Tweaks:
Instead of being able to kill Hunter, how about just immobilize. Every time you are able to take down the health, it makes the hunter drop as if dead for 5 sec or more (which is precious time considering that its time limited). Immediately after it revives, it gains 5 sec invulnerability. Meaning, players will have to run away as soon and if they defeat it. If you like, it gains a speed bonus on top of regular bonuses upon reviving to revenge kill. It could also gain a death touch, one-hit KOing anything. These would all last 5 sec, or less if it seems to overpowered. Of course, this change will require editing the classes.
Class:
1. Juggernaut
I think the juggernaut isn't that unique in its abilities. Its needs to be more deadly and different.
Wep Bonus: I think it should have a higher damage increase. Keep speed the same.
Health: You could consider reducing when you take everything into account.
Movement Speed: I think it has to be fast enough to catch other players since it doesnt boost like a striker. People could potentially just run away when seeing him and stall him, even if they're not strikers.
Abilities: Some of these abilities might balance the potential speed issue.
1.The juggernaut would have a shield that sends shock waves when it shield bumps. Those shock waves would damage, automatically stun players, and break shields. These waves would spread out in pulses to catch players, not too far as to avoid it being overpowered.
2.There is a chance to damage and stun if the juggernaut gets really close to you. Similar to JK.
3. The juggernaut has increased resistance to knock back.
4. Attacks cannot be interrupted.
5. shield is 3 times stronger than guardian or a bit less.
Im trying to make the Juggernaut seem like a titan or a tank.
Assassin
The assassin needs to be almost the complete opposite of a Juggernaut. A glass cannon.
Wep Bonus: I think both speed and attack should be very high on all weps.
Health: Im thinking that the health might not be the issue. I think they should receive a damage type resistance penalty. Maybe, reducing all resistances (piercing,normal,shadow, elemental) by half a bar.
Movement speed: I think its walking speed is fine as it.
Abilities:
1.The Assassin can see players through walls and detect players further away.
2. It can boost as fast as a striker but cannot be seen at all (or with an outline as you suggested if you think its more appropriate). Additionally, its boost can last for 10 sec (more than three times current striker). It could be way less if it seems overpowered but I think it should be a minimum of 6.
Bombardier
Srry to say this but I think it should be replaced with another class. The third class should have generally different abilities that apply to all weps. Maybe a bombing class could work but it has to have abilities that will make a bomber deadly.
Prey vs Hunter Advantages and Counters:
Striker:
Advantages: it can outrun a Juggernaut. It can keep up with the Assassin for a while. This can make you tricky to kill, possibly being ignored by Hunter.
Counters: A striker can get caught in Juggernaut shock wave. The assassin can chase it until it runs out of boost (if the assassin has enough at the time).
Recon:
Advantages: Can cloak and become invisible to all, even to an Assassin. It does not have the mark ability. It will alert the hunter if its presence if it stays to long in its pulse radius, maybe the equivalent to 2 pulses or maybe 1 and a half.
Counters:
An assassin may be in the area when the cloak breaks and quickly kill it. The juggernaut will break its cloak with shock wave as it spreads out, being easier to smoke out.
Guardian:
Advantages: can potentially survive and kill an assassin as its fragile. Can avoid being stunned by juggernaut shock wave when the shield first breaks.
Counters: The Assassin can out maneuver a guardian or sneak up to a guardian when unshielded. The juggernaut can chase it after the shield breaks.
General Points:
1. All talk will be disabled during game.
2. Players will not have time to think of an immediate counter as the class the hunter picks is unknown until the player actually sees it.
3. Any LD class can potentially group up or solo effectively.
4. Assassin will have a harder time in groups. Even if it is killed, it can revenge kill the pack that it just killed it (might need balancing).
5. Juggernauts will have a harder time with single players. It can demolish a whole group with its shock waves.
On a side Note: Strikers will always remain a problem as they currently are. I havent posted this suggestion for a striker nerf. This is a simple fix. Strikers can only sprint for 2 secs (originally 3), decreasing even lower if not enough.
I will post suggestions on the other gameplay mechanics when I have the time.