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Remove the damage counter from Lockdown

19 replies [Last post]
Tue, 01/17/2012 - 23:47
Metagenic's picture
Metagenic

I'm not gonna [tart] about overpowered gear since it's going to be really complicated to balance, but I will suggest this: at the end of the round, don't display how much damage every player did. Why? Because this damage counter seems to motivate everyone to play the game like it's an effing Team Deathmatch.

Wed, 01/18/2012 - 01:17
#1
Heavy-Duty's picture
Heavy-Duty
...

It kinda is. That's more or less how you get the points- kill anyone who is not your color. What exactly are you mad about?

Wed, 01/18/2012 - 02:28
#2
Darkbrady's picture
Darkbrady
Agree/disagree.It certainly

Agree/disagree.

It certainly does encourage some people to just wanna be toothpick strikers and run around killin' folk with little~no consideration for the actual objectives (@Heaven, it is NOT a TD game, it's Annex/KotH (whatever you wanna call it), there are absolutely no points rewarded for kills, just captured points; spending your time runnin' around killing noobs while their pros cap all the points will lose you the game) and has a nasty habit of discouraging useful team play. This can also lead to certain support players (bombers, come to mind) who can be extraordinarily useful in protecting points, pushing crowds etc, but wind up with very little in the ways of damage/caps etc, making people who didn't see them [tart] and moan that they're just useless, via judging people based on the scoreboard.

However, it's nice that they're one of the few games that considers how aggravating it is to not look at kills, and just clock damage, and it is always nice for the strikers in the team to get a feel for how well they actually did compared to others. It's beneficial for the damage classes, as are caps/defends for the point-men, to keep a track of how well they're playing and what their goals are. It's just a shame that there's no real way to quantify "didn't let a single person past mid-point the entire game" in the scoreboards.

Wed, 01/18/2012 - 03:29
#3
Asukalan's picture
Asukalan
Wut? Remove dmg counter since

Wut? Remove dmg counter since it motivates to kill? Ok then what they will start capturing point, omgonoz remove def/cpt count since it motivates to capture points. What next? Remove point counter.

What we have in the end? A game which decides who wins behind players and there is no way to supervise it.

Also removing it is just pointless, your ego got hurt so much when others do more dmg than you?

Wed, 01/18/2012 - 03:35
#4
Quotefanboy's picture
Quotefanboy
My head hurts from reading this.

"Wut? Remove dmg counter since it motivates to kill? Ok then what they will start capturing point, omgonoz remove def/cpt count since it motivates to capture points. What next? Remove point counter."

I don't even know why you would even fathom, in your head, how this statement holds any intellectual value.

You just stated this:
"What? Remove damage counter because it motivates people to only kill, and not play the objective which is the main way to win? At that rate, we shouldn't show how useful people were in actually contributing to points that 'matter' in winning since that motivates in playing actual objective, instead of a pointless sword fight that has no significance to winning aside from allowing the rest of your team to capture points, if anyone is even doing that."

Lets play Call of Duty, without the experience gain.

Wed, 01/18/2012 - 03:54
#5
Metagenic's picture
Metagenic
do i really have to explain this

It's supposed to be a King of the Hill game with capturing points in mind, not "OMG I HAD 5-DIGIT DAMAGE, WHY DID I LOSE?"

Wed, 01/18/2012 - 05:19
#6
Melisan's picture
Melisan
@Quotefanboy that was

@Quotefanboy that was beautiful man *wipes tears away

Wed, 01/18/2012 - 05:28
#7
Kreeara's picture
Kreeara
wtf

what the eff

Wed, 01/18/2012 - 07:11
#8
Severage's picture
Severage
+1

I agree with this personally. I've always said that LD makes GF Strikers with 15K damage and a single cap look like gods, while 10 caps and 5K damage players look like total noobs. At least, in player perception. The damage counter is really frivolous to have in a "KotH" type game, and motivates people to play Deathmatch rather than KotH.

@Asukalanforum: The rager be ragin' again; what you just said makes no sense, and I won't explain it again since Fanboy did my job.

@Kreeara: That's it? You can't think of anything else to say? Why post?

~Sev

Wed, 01/18/2012 - 08:58
#9
Blue-Phaze's picture
Blue-Phaze
That damage counter has

That damage counter has always been complete nonsense.
The final results should obviously show the game's main objective.
What is Lockdown's main objective? Capturing.
Then why are those final results showing damage given and not bases captured?
Because Three Rings was STUPID when creating Lockdown, that's why. Whoever was hired to create the final results screen should be fired.
Lockdown is an awesome game but that single aspect, the final results screen, made everybody worship those useless damage numbers.
It's just really stupid that the devs put that in a KotH game; damage counter is for Deathmatch and Deathmatch ONLY.
Really, this is just so logical and obvious. I'm really ashamed that a game of this level has made such an elementary mistake.
Props to metagenic for pointing this out.
I really hope the devs recognize the mistake they made.

~Blue

Wed, 01/18/2012 - 20:57
#10
Aemicus's picture
Aemicus
"Then why are those final

"Then why are those final results showing damage given and not bases captured?"

...have you ever played lockdown? Points captured is the first thing shown, then points defended, THEN damage. In that order, (aka, order of importance).

Idk about the rest of you, but I always check out all the counters. I was playing T2 a few days back, and saw a guy in full proto and an autogun running around as recon. Naturally, I was a little annoyed, but at the end of the game, I saw that he had 15 caps, even if he did only have a few hundred damage. So, when people commented on my damage, I pointed out his caps and told them that he was the reason we won the game.

STOP TRYING TO RUIN THE GAME! Some people play for damage, and others play for caps. It is mostly just your preference. Imagine if no one killed one another, the game would be idiotic. If you remove the damage counter, you remove some of the drive to keep the other teams population under control, and that would ruin the game as easily as taking out the capture counter.

Wed, 01/18/2012 - 21:16
#11
Blue-Phaze's picture
Blue-Phaze
sorry, I haven't played

sorry, I haven't played Lockdown in some weeks i guess. and I was kind of raging there <.< I should pay more attention.
Anyways, I still think it's pointless to have that status shown.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 03:38
#12
Metagenic's picture
Metagenic
"some ppl play for dmg, others for caps"

I get what you're trying to say here, but killing enemies in a territory control gametype should be a side objective, not a primary goal. The mentality should be "kill them so they can't cap our hills", not "ok guys, you stay here and you go there, kill as much as you can and ignore the hills".

I'll tell you a story. I was once facing a [doltish] team in T2. They were all full duskers wielding snarble barbs or flourishes, focused only on killing my teammates. At the end, they all racked up 10k+ damage, but their team lost, 900-0. Guess why?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 04:21
#13
Darkbrady's picture
Darkbrady
Omg lol@Meta. That's

Omg lol@Meta.

That's fantastic, I love hearin' stories about that!

Srsly though, it's what I'm sayin'; it lets people get the wrong attitude. The damage value DOES have a place there, it shows the strikers (who's job IS to kill and protect CPs by doing so) their progress, while the other classes get shown their stuff. The problem isn't that the damage counter is there directly, but that idiots will look at it and prioritise that, rather than looking at it as a scoreboard (what Aemicus said, pretty much), so if you're hatin' on people who just rage away at kills and not CPs, blame the player that gets off to big numbers rather than "the point of the game", not the statistic shown at the end.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 06:13
#14
Metagenic's picture
Metagenic
This is Spiral Knights, not Gears/Halo/TF

Unlike the players of those games, most of the people in this game have no idea how to play objective. As mentioned in Aemicus's story, the average Lockdown player worships the guy with the highest damage, not the guy who tried the hardest to help his team win.

How am I supposed to blame people for aiming for a high damage number and not the actual win, when everybody in Lockdown plays like that? I sometimes end up having to carry teams, not because they suck at killing but because they don't know that you actually have to capture these hills to win.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 06:57
#15
Darkbrady's picture
Darkbrady
And, as in Aemicus' story,

And, as in Aemicus' story, sometimes that benefits you.

Like I said, the problem is the people, not the objective. Take the damage counter out and people still won't know what to do any more than the do now, they'll just run around on a kill spree then the forums will get flooded with "put kills/damage in LD scoreboard" QQ threads.

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 11:21
#16
Softhead's picture
Softhead
+1

Why put it in LD but not the CW?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 12:55
#17
Darkbrady's picture
Darkbrady
What? Why do we need it in

What? Why do we need it in the CW?

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 13:02
#18
Neodasus's picture
Neodasus
ITT butthurt

ITT butthurt

Thu, 01/19/2012 - 21:00
#19
Aemicus's picture
Aemicus
To further my point up there,

To further my point up there, voila. Lots of damage AND caps. Although I was sad about not getting any defends.

(I had to cut out the rest of the chat because some people got a bit angry with me for killing them too often. It got vulgar.)

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/11/damagecaps.png/

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