Spiral Knights - Snarble barb and Flourish line- Too similar?

Snarble barb and Flourish line- Too similar?

13 replies [Last post]

Wed, 01/18/2012 - 04:17

Mejezfeld

I am going to get hell for this, but I'm not trying to troll here, I want a serious discussion

Both have a 3-hit combo with a stab attack
Both do Pierce damage
Both have a really weird sort of reach
Both are rather irritating in Lockdown when in the hands of someone who can jury-rig his client/computer or bribe his ISP to get himself four bars.

The only differences are the charge attack and the appearance. And most people are probably gonna favor the Snarble Barb because it's charge attack does not involving throwing yourself forward in a potentially suicidal manner- which, by the way, is the same reason nobody uses the Spur line much anymore, (except that the Spur line swords do it with EVERY strike).

So, what do we have here, folks?

Wed, 01/18/2012 - 05:13

Melisan

I'm sure someone could write

I'm sure someone could write a whole story about this but.... The flourish can be bought from vatel, therefore we can assume that the knights already had this technology. They later whilst on cradle discover the snarby and decide to create some weapons out if it's pelt/teeth/spines etc. seeing as they already have a pattern for a piercing weapon and now an organic material to make it from it seems likely that they would just substitute it. The charge being different could be a unique property of the snarbolax or just a result of spiral research.
ok, pad out as you see fit.

Wed, 01/18/2012 - 06:38

Mejezfeld

I'm not talking about WHY

I'm not talking about WHY they're somehow the same.

I'm talking about whether or not they're TOO similar and whether or not changes to either appearance or function would be a good idea.

Personally, I think only weapons related by Alchemy have any real excuse to look like each other, for example: the three elemental Brandishes, the three final Wolver Sets, etc. look somewhat alike and this is okay with me because they share the same ancestor.

but there are a lot of other weapons that are basically palette swaps of each other without their Alchemy lines being related to each other- the Haze bombs, the Alchemers, the two Vortex bombs.

The only thing is, all the weapons that LOOK ALIKE tend to FUNCTION ALIKE as well. The only exceptions are Nightblade, which attacks and charge-attacks the same as the three Elemental Brandishes but looks different (but is still at least related alchemically to them),

And of course the Snarble Barb, which looks like the Flourish and attacks the same way and does the same kind and amount of damage too, but ISN'T related to it alchemically, and I'm not sure that having a different charge attack counts since most of the time people use the combo instead.

if they decided to make it look like a Macahuitl instead of a Rapier, that could be cool. It would also be more suited to the overall theme of the Snarbolax (or at least, it would evoke Aztec vibes in a way similar to the weird totems seen in Wolver lairs does) and the shield.

Wed, 01/18/2012 - 06:47

Melisan

Maybe you need to go outside

Maybe you need to go outside and get some fresh air once in a while? And stop looking too deeply into frivolous things.
Also it's *Macuahuitl*

Wed, 01/18/2012 - 07:09

Mejezfeld

@melisan Maybe you should

@melisan

Maybe you should stop using the "has no life"/"too much time on your hands" response that every mindless thirteen-year-old scenegirl on devianTART uses for anyone who tries to tell her to look at some anatomical references or to stop using autism as a catch-all excuse for her shortcomings or to stop fire-roasting people's eyes with colorschemes that are mind-bafflingly horrible.

Okay, Let me put this in a better, shorter, concise, ADHD-friendly way:

The Snarble Barb and Flourish are somehow pointlessly (badumtish) similar and pointlessly different AT THE SAME TIME.

Wed, 01/18/2012 - 07:22

Asukalan

They have diffrent charge

They have diffrent charge attacks. That works for me.

Wed, 01/18/2012 - 11:17

Severage

If I were to put in my 2 cents...

Flourish was out before Snarbolax. Snarbolax, upon release, become exceedingly popular. And still is. All over the place, there were "We need Snarby this!", and "We need Snarby that!". Really, Snarbolax has become a fan-boy icon with which you can pretty much get a full set of gear (With the exception of a gun, neglected gunners again), and most of it being of cosmetic value (The shield is unique, but the sword is basically a clone, and the armor is almost identical to some other Shadow defense armors, with few exceptions).

Honestly, 75% of Snarbolax's equipment is cosmetic. The cattle brand is no exception.

The only flaw in my argument would be that I believe the cattle brand was released upon release of Snarby, so there wasn't a bunch of fan-boys saying "We need a snarby sword!" to my knowledge. Must be OOO's foresight, they knew people would like it...or they just felt that Flourish needed a new charge attack.

~Sev

Wed, 01/18/2012 - 08:07

Mejezfeld

For me it's like

For me it's like this.

A=Flourish
B=Snarble

Do Weapon A and B look alike? Yes. Recolors

Are A and B related by Alchemy? No. Separate lines

Do A and B work the same? Yes. Statistically you will be making more use of the 3-hit combo (identical for both swords) than the charge attack.

Do A and B do different types/amounts of damage? No. They both do pure Pierce damage with no status effects, charged or not charged.

Does this make sense overall? No.

Wed, 01/18/2012 - 10:44

Melisan

Her?

Wed, 01/18/2012 - 13:10

Disciplina

I, for one, like the

I, for one, like the "Flourish with a different charge attack" sword.

Moreover, you're saying that it is not related by alchemy, but it's obviously supposed to be - just, since it is a T1 boss reward, they have to make it a 2* item initially, and they don't want 1* antecedents to 5* weapons for the obvious UV farming problems it causes. They got rid of a 1* Haze Bomb precursor to the Shivermist Buster and Ashes of Agni line, after all. Yet those are clearly still related bomb sets, even when they added new "haze"-type bombs.

Honestly, you just haven't put much thought in to this. Three Rings obviously shows no precedent of NOT making things similar even if they have no clear acquisition relation, if they are intended to be similar. Ultimately, your personal sense of aesthetics are irrelevant.

Wed, 01/18/2012 - 14:24

#10

Darkbrady

I like the Snarble line

I like the Snarble line because I don't use swords in LD; I only use them as utilities in the CW, and it's not that the flourish is bad, but it's that the Snarble charge is a good area covering attack which is generally more useful to me.

Beyond that, never really been too worried about the differences...I think they could probably have just been put into the same line and separate alchemy paths, being that similar, but I reckon it was just for the sake of adding a new boss weapon.

Idk..what changes would you actually want to see in them?

Wed, 01/18/2012 - 14:55

#11

Nacho

Dude what the heck? I brought

Dude what the heck? I brought the macuahuitl some time ago. But i wont say nothing about this bec ause you may have thought it alone.

Anyway... Your solution is to make them look different instead of making them work different. That would make it have less sense. They should make them work different, thats it. Say somethng about how each one would work and then lets talk about it. And dont suggest something about making it deal split piercing and shadow because i have something ugly to say about that.

Wed, 01/18/2012 - 17:54

#12

Aemicus

"if they decided to make it

"if they decided to make it look like a Macahuitl instead of a Rapier"

I'm beginning to wonder if you are trolling. Did you seriously just ask why they didn't make the piercing weapon, the one that stabs twice, a club?

Wed, 01/18/2012 - 18:04

#13

Mejezfeld

Considering that the

Considering that the appearance of the cattlebrand has become iconic now... Yeah making it work different would be the way to go to reduce weapon redundancy. And that's where I'm stumped...

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Snarble barb and Flourish line- Too similar?