Spiral Knights - Alchemers - Prismatech vs Firotech

Alchemers - Prismatech vs Firotech

13 replies [Last post]

Fri, 01/20/2012 - 13:02

Bzzts

I have a firo driver currently and would like to know whether for general use,
is the fire worth it. Damage wise. I see it do 13 damage at level 10 t2 but is the base damage boost better( considering I'll be doing some FSC as welll).

I just crafted a prismatech uv ctr low and was planning to upgrade..

But after many foolish crafts( as in wyvern scale set, both faust, avenger before switching to the brandishes pre patch,
And even a blckhawk that is never used)

I have turned to the *cough* kind, helpful co.munity for some advice.

Thanks in advance

Fri, 01/20/2012 - 13:22

Jontlemen

There's some pretty decent

There's some pretty decent discussion on the subject over here:
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/40410

Fri, 01/20/2012 - 13:26

Notawindowsuser

The general rule...

The general rule for alchemers is:

Use the Nova Driver unless you want or need a status.
The Prismatech line generally does 10-30+ points of damage more than status lines and the status normally doesn't make up for the loss of damage.

At least that's what most people say, and it seems reasonable when I compare my Storm Driver damage to my Umbra driver.

Fri, 01/20/2012 - 20:52

Metagenic

What?

Firotech is arguably worse than Prismatech, due to fire not being usable in FSC.

Fri, 01/20/2012 - 22:13

Ween-Bot

The fire effect on Firo

The fire effect on Firo Driver (4*) is broken, it does considerably less damage per tick than the 3* version. However it's fine when upgraded to 5*.

For general use (outside of FSC) most people use a status Alchemer (usually Cryo or Volt, occasionally Firo) as they find it more useful. However if you use the charge attacks extensively and can cause internal ricochets with them (eg. hit Gun Puppies on the side) you might find the Nova more useful overall.

In FSC the situation is the same, but obviously the Firo line isn't used. Since it's full of Zombies (which are easy to hit with the charge attack), many people do like Nova Driver.

In terms of DPS, it's generally agreed Nova has a higher single-target DPS than Magma, but if you light multiple enemies on fire with the ricochets then Magma can outstrip Nova against crowds.

Fri, 01/20/2012 - 22:20

Demonicsothe

@Ween-Bot

Is that really broken? Have you tested that on T3? Because that could just be an effect of low tier nerfs.

Or it could be that the way the fire is applied is different for 4*. As in, longer fire, less damage. Less like though.

Fri, 01/20/2012 - 23:13

Somenubcake

ween's right. the 4* is

ween's right. the 4* is broken (20 burn damage max, only a few ticks). the 5* does a lot more damage and 3-4 ticks

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 04:20

Irokwe

I think:

that volt>firo.

I've heard that VT outdamages AoA vs. 3 or more enemies, so volt should be better, too. Also, in FSC many slags cluster together and the shock can kill them all faster.

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 12:57

Imperialstriker

Wut...

AoA will only do less damage than VT if VT shocks enemies weak to elemental. Or shocks enemies immune to fire... I've use ld both a fiery vapor and a static capacitor, and always find that the fire effect outdoes the shock effect except when confronting ghosts, undead, and constructs.

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 13:26

The-Rawrcake

"if VT shocks enemies weak to

"if VT shocks enemies weak to elemental."

Status effects do not work in this way.

For example: Gremlins resist shock and fire. A wolver, same elemental defense, will take greater, more "neutral" fire damage.

Another example: Regular jelly cubes take so much damage from fire, and Ice jelly cubes (sorry for not knowing exact names) will take even more (spiked or de-spiked).

@Bzzts / OP

The firo does not have much utility (it still can de-spike ice jelly cubes) and it sacrifices raw damage for a fire.

It is kind of hard to compare DPS because most do not own a Magma + Nova to do so.

You cannot compare lower tiers, because the raw damage to fire damage ratio significantly increases as it is upgraded to 5*. You will notice that a 2 star firotech used in RJP will have more fire tick damage than raw damage. This is not the case in tier 3 with a magma driver.

But as I said, unless someone gets at least very high damage bonus with a 5* magma driver and 5* nova driver, you cannot reliably compare both of the guns' DPS (because most gunners shoot for 5* and 2 damage trinkets, best not comparing two 3 star items because it will totally be thrown off once you gain gunner bonuses and better guns).

With that in your mind, here are some things which may sway you one way or another.

Magma driver:
1. Can light oilers (split bullets or regular shots, you could have been not intending to light them)
2. Sacrifices raw damage for Fire, so as the gun gains more raw damage, fire will stay the same based on the tier / stratum.
3. Can de-spike ice jellos (though this may not be that useful).
4. Only has a chance to fire. You either get lucky or you do not and suffer damage.

Nova Driver:
1. Does not cause a status that would positively affect slimes.
2. Has the greatest raw damage, so utilizing multi-clipping charge attacks on gun puppies etc. will be significantly greater.
3. You will not have to rely on chance.

Basically, count on getting the Nova between those 2. The gun is great.

Or you could consider looking at Storm Driver or Hail Driver, both have utility.

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 13:59

#10

Fradow

@Imperialstriker false, you

@Imperialstriker false, you forgot the fact that shock ticks are aoe, fire ticks are not.

Let's take an example : in RJP, strata 4, according wiki, fire ticks do 40 damage to jellies, shock does 14 per mob. That means if 3 mobs are close together, it deals 42 per mob. It can go way higher considering the number of jellies (especially with a vortex). And keep in mind jellies suffer a lot from fire but are neutral to shock.

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 15:01

#11

The-Rawrcake

Zombies happen to be the

Zombies happen to be the elemental-weak mob that is the weakest to fire.

Sadly, those zombies are fire-themed in FSC and yet not a problem there let alone anywhere with normal amounts of zombies.

I would definately go for the Nova.

Kats and Mecha Knights are resistant to fire.

Shock works differently, which is why shock seems to be a bit more useful damage-wise.

Things weak to elemental are weak to shock. Things neutral to elemental are neutral to shock. Things resistant to elemental also resist shock. And the fact that shock is AoE makes up for less damage / tick.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 11:30

#12

Somenubcake

i find the shock a bit too

i find the shock a bit too situational for my liking. in the lower half of T3 it does 28-30 shock damage per tick (from a storm). in order for it to outdamage the nova you'll need to shock at least 2 monster for every single hit (hit NOT shot due to the ricochets; and this isn't easy even with the high status infliction rate). it has an aoe effect (which is awesome) but when one of your wise crack teammate knocks the shocked monster out of the group / scatters the group with knockback, u lose your aoe. shock also messes up shield bumps...

but on the other hand: shock status is excellent against knights and kats, both are annoying to kill with a gun

Mon, 01/23/2012 - 07:20

#13

Nordlead

The Firo Driver is usable in

The Firo Driver is usable in FSC. It just becomes a slightly weakened alchemer. Since the magma driver is the only gun I have, I take it to FSC all the time. It is my backup weapon since I normally use my sword (a Combuster, which just means I don't do fire damage, but it works fine until I'm done my voltedge). In FSC there isn't a lot you need to shoot since most of it is zombies, so it works out well enough. Yes, it isn't optimal, but it is more than serviceable.

If you feel like you already invested too much into the Firo then just use it until you have the CE to craft something else.

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Alchemers - Prismatech vs Firotech