"Who said we can't use our swords as a shield?"
Three Rings.
dual wielding (admin this is actually different from other suggestions like these, scroll to the bottom.)
Sat, 01/28/2012 - 20:12
#52
...
Sat, 01/28/2012 - 20:14
#53
@ironskullkid
Under what legal forms
Sat, 01/28/2012 - 20:22
#54
Um...
Every Form?
Sat, 01/28/2012 - 20:26
#55
Be specific
Tell me where, I'm actually curious.
Some links would be nice.
Sat, 01/28/2012 - 20:28
#56
Uh...Um...
http://troll.me/images/facepalm-picard/i-got-nothing.jpg
I don't want to be all "Debaty" because I'm Tired right now.
Sat, 01/28/2012 - 20:37
#57
Aaaaw
But debating with people you don't know is fun
Sat, 01/28/2012 - 20:38
#58
...
But it can also call upon the Wrath of the All Mighty GMs to End a Furious Discussion...
...
And I'm kind of a Pacifist. ._.
Sat, 01/28/2012 - 20:46
#59
...
No more reving this over and over plz. Please no dual wield and this is the same with other threads. The cake and title are both lies!
Sat, 01/28/2012 - 21:18
#60
ya dual guns would be pretty
ya dual guns would be pretty cool.
Sun, 01/29/2012 - 00:39
#61
Games already too easy as it
Games already too easy as it is, DW guns would be OP, and I certainly dont feel like following a pack of tools around DW'ing GF or whatever and single handedly one shoting every group that spawns.
Sun, 01/29/2012 - 00:49
#62
Praise the sun!
Sun, 01/29/2012 - 19:58
#63
@Heavy-Duty @Lukehandkooler @Knight-Solaire
Obviously haven't read the whole thread.
Comment #42.
I enjoy pointing out lazy people :3
Sun, 01/29/2012 - 20:13
#64
We've all read comment #42
We've all read comment #42 and it's still no improvement on any dual wield idea.
Sun, 01/29/2012 - 20:36
#65
What dark ritual?
What stupid ritual? Oh, this one
Sun, 01/29/2012 - 20:34
#66
Only elves in Lord of the Rings could dual wield
LAWZ FUNNY. We do not have the reflexes of an elf, you know.
Sun, 01/29/2012 - 20:50
#67
Bumping!
and no, I think
Bumping!
and no, I think dual-wielding is stupid. I don't need a reason, or have one that differs much from the detractors. I just want to keep this stupid thread up in the general discussion section. Why? I dunno.
Sun, 01/29/2012 - 21:22
#68
@Melisan
Link me to an identical thread then. Seem's like everyone's been turned off the idea by the amount of times it's been suggested crappily, I'm just trying to get it right this time.
Mon, 01/30/2012 - 01:57
#69
Praise the sun!
@Hexzyle
Obviously haven't read the whole thread.
Comment #42.
I enjoy pointing out lazy people :3
Reskinning a cutter isn't changing a game mechanic. Dual wielding inherently implies the loss of a shield (see the dual wielding mechanic in any other game that has used it ever); what you have described is simply a Cutter with a different model. I read #42 before posting, and my response can still be summed up in one word.
I enjoy pointing out people unwilling to realize that their idea is either unoriginal or just bad.
Mon, 01/30/2012 - 01:43
#70
^
/applaud
Mon, 01/30/2012 - 02:09
#71
Dual wielding inherently
"Dual wielding inherently implies the loss of a shield"
The nightblade displays that the shield is not held in the hand, but instead is attached to the arm, and the other half of the weapon is carried in the hand. Therefore both a secondary weapon and the shield can be equipped.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5021/5678061650_606384de8e.jpg
http://media.spiralknights.com/wiki-images/5/53/Nightblade-Equipped.png
http://media.spiralknights.com/wiki-images/e/eb/Silent_Nightblade-Equipp...
"Fallenhope did mention that the nightblade proves that the shield is stuck to the arm, not held in the hand"
"Shield is attached to the arm, so blocking is still possible"
How many times must I repeat myself? You're bringing up the same issues to me that I addressed in my post.
And I never said I wanted to change a game mechanic.
"I'm 100% against dual weilding game mechanics, but 100% for dual weilding animation. You seem to get the idea"
Mon, 01/30/2012 - 02:19
#72
Praise the sun!
@Hexzyle
Ok... let's address a more basic question then: why are you posting a non-dual wielding idea in a topic clearly about dual wielding?
If you agree it isn't dual wielding, then stop calling it that. Call it what it really is: reskinning the Cutter. What you suggest serves exactly the same function as the Cutter. Do we need another one? Do people use the one that already exists?
Mon, 01/30/2012 - 03:28
#73
Good Idea
Weapon Costumes then. (like Scissor Blades) :3 Do we need another one? Do people use the regular armour/weapons as visuals? XD
Mon, 01/30/2012 - 08:48
#74
It will be a flawed action
It will be a flawed action because all you do with the sheath in your hand is bring your arm up to shield, if you plan to attack effectively you can't have a shield attacked to your forearm. It would restrict movement too much and would make you more vulnerable.
Mon, 01/30/2012 - 09:05
#75
@Tuhui
More restricted than an rediculously oversized Leviathan Blade/Edge/Triglav/Sadaruska/Gran Faust/Divine Avenger is in one hand?
Sat, 02/04/2012 - 06:55
#76
Sorry if someones already thought of this
what if the shield was on your back like the gremlins in t3?
Sat, 02/04/2012 - 07:11
#77
No weilding two weapons at
No weilding two weapons at once. I'm pretty sure OOO has actualy seid that that will never happen. I could be wrong, but it rings a bell in my head.
As for weilding one weapon that is two simmilar parts, that would be fair game. Exact same function as a regular weapon, only two separate peices, like the nightblade and it's sheith. Only the sheith is another sword, or both weapons are guns, but do not buff the overall attack whatsoever.
As Knight-Solaire said Hexzyle, you should just make your own thread or search for sensable existing one.
"what if the shield was on your back like the gremlins in t3?"
*Walks into a wall* *Bomb spams* *Defeats Vannaduke*
Wed, 02/08/2012 - 18:47
#78
xD maybe the shield function
xD maybe the shield function can be replaced while duel wielding
by a parrying skill that works like a shield but breaks with one hit and takes damn long to recharge the broken shield
or
by a back step function with a significant cooldown
Wed, 02/08/2012 - 18:51
#79
Derp. We already said that
Derp. We already said that sheilds have to stay in place. If you're going to revive a 4 day old spammed thread, read the posts.
Wed, 02/08/2012 - 20:19
#80
Okay, let's ignore all
Okay, let's ignore all gameplay balance issues for for a minute. We'll also ignore anything about dual-wielding making sense in the game world. The fact of the matter is that this would require a complete overhaul of the game engine. The game is designed, and all the weapons designed, with the idea that the player will only use one weapon at a time. Not only would it be a programming and debugging nightmare, but there is also the challenge of coming up with exactly how it should work. Would players be able to only equip identical weapons, or different weapons? How would it effect the player's attack patterns? What if they're wielding a Divine Avenger and a Dread Venom Striker? Those two swords have vastly different combat styles, how would they mesh together?
Face facts - Dual-wielding would simply be too difficult to add into the game, especially for how much benefit it would provide to Three Rings. It's not going to happen.
Wed, 02/08/2012 - 22:20
#81
Apologies for the double
Apologies for the double post.
Thu, 02/09/2012 - 11:09
#82
I see three types of people in this thread
1. People who think duel wielding is a great idea because they want to go hard boiled.
2. Nay sayers who can't accept any change what so ever in game mechanics, either because they find it stupid, or worse have the arrogance to clam it would be to hard for Three Rings to implement. Bet you these people threw hissy fits when they removed auto-lock from monsters.
3. People who are pragmatic and want to find a middle way to balance it. (#42)
First off, to people whining that you lose the shield, that's the bloody point, you lose defense capabilities but gain more offensive power. Second, duel wielding shouldn't automatically work for every weapon (any weapon that takes 2 hands in attacking or reloading) or there's an attack speed penalty. Third, the name of this game is evolve or die. If Three Rings stopped adding new and interesting content, how long do you think the game would last? Stop making stupid claims and lament your fate that this could be a good idea.
Thu, 02/09/2012 - 13:03
#83
Dual wielding would be difficult to implement.
Dual wielding would be difficult to implement.
Dual guns and bombs would be the easiest to make. Players can just shoot both guns / lay both bombs at the same time, so that it would be like sacrificing a shield for double damage/status.
Charges might be a bit weird though if you're wielding two different weapons. Maybe length of the charge should be an average between the charge length of the two weapons. It would be pretty interesting to see someone using biohazard to shorten their bomb charge times.
Dual swords - this would involve making an entirely new game mechanic for each sword.... lots of uncertainty here.
Don't forget about all the combinations of sword gunners and sword bombers out there...
Besides, how will we be able to quickly switch two weapons (for those of us who bring more than 2 weapons with us)?
What about PvP?
Thu, 02/09/2012 - 14:38
#84
First things first, let's get
First things first, let's get one thing straight - New game mechanics and new game content are not the same thing. Mechanics go down to the game engine, things like shields, weapon types, and damage types. Content boils down to things like levels, new armor, new bosses, and such. Mechanics are how you play the game, content is what you play.
Second, this is not a good idea. If you remove the shield to dual-wield, then you completely destroy a player's defensive ability, and contrary to what the T1 and T2 players claim, defense is IMPORTANT. Try running a Shadow Lair with a Dread Venom Striker and no shield. If you illogically allow dual-wielding without losing the shield, then you've basically created an OP game mechanic. And adding in the "twin daggers" just because one player (or a few players) thinks it looks cooler is a waste of effort. It'd need a new weapon model, texturing, animations, textures and coding for the afterswing graphics, coding for the weapon stats, coding/animations/graphical effects for the charge attack, and debugging all of those things.
Third, yes, this would be hard to implement. Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that they already know exactly how they want dual-wielding to behave. Off the top of my head, they have to program the mechanic itself, the weapon slot code, do all the attack animations for each combination of weapon type and attack pattern, code all the combination charge attacks, design any new graphical effects necessary, debug all of that, and then after all that, they still have to do testing to make sure it's balanced. All that effort for a gameplay mechanic, when they could be focusing on actual content, like the Mission System.
This is a terrible idea, you're not the first person come up with this idea, and it's not going to happen. GET OVER IT.
Thu, 02/09/2012 - 15:51
#85
1. Just adding content from a
1. Just adding content from a set pool will get stagnant, it might not take a year or two, but the chickens will come home to roost. It's just stubbornness on your part if you don't think it's not at least feasible. The problem is what they're putting in now are just redesigns (Shadow Lair), or inconsequentials (Accessories).
2. You seem to assume that just because it's in the game, it should be used for all stratas. Also the fact you have to rely on your shield shows it's a crutch. There are people who can run FSC with proto armor, if you're skilled enough you don't even need armor, let alone a shield. Also just because a few players can't adapt to new things and choose to complain about it, doesn't mean the idea should be thrown out. And you keep using that word, OP. I do not think it means what you think it means." Yes, new weapon model, texturing, animations, textures and coding for the afterswing graphics, coding for the weapon stats, coding/animations/graphical effects for the charge attack, I remember when they did that for the Bomb Blast/Lockdown Krogmo updates. Waste of effort those were.
3. You keep ignoring everything else in this thread that counter's your argument and rehashing your old arguments. Also you aren't a designer or programer, you're just talking out of your ass when you say it would be hard to implement. It would take time and effort, but that's not hard.
It's an idea of merit and many people have offered it means that people want it. The loud and whiny minority should not dictate what is and isn't in game. GET OVER IT.
Thu, 02/09/2012 - 18:20
#86
1. Yes, it's true, they will
1. Yes, it's true, they will have to change things up every now and again. That's what the mission system is - a change. It doesn't necessarily mean that THIS has to be that change, though. I'd much prefer new boss strata to dual-wielding, personally. Dual-wielding is only adding a new way to replay old content. I can come up with new ways to replay it on my own without a major overhaul of the combat system.
2. Time to turn your arguments around on you. They should add dual-shielding! The fact that you have to rely on weapons shows that it's a crutch. There are players that can run through difficult areas without any weapons. Just because weapons are in the game, doesn't mean they should be used for all strata. If you're skilled enough, you don't need a weapon. Also, judging by how many players are in Blast Network every time I look, yeah, it was probably a waste of time. Oh, and "I keep using the word OP?" I only used it once. Did you lose your ability to count in the same place you lost your reasoning skills?
3. I'm rehashing my argument because I still haven't seen anything to show that implementation would be easy. Also, you have no idea what my programming experience is, and how much I know about it, so don't talk out your ass about how much I know. Besides, if game design is so simple, why don't you do it? Make a better game. You can even pick your programming language of choice, you don't have to use Java. Actually, you know what, you can even use a premade game engine, if you want. Go for the Unreal Engine, Source, or whatever your preference is. Come back in a year and show us all your cool new game.
It's a terrible idea, and that many people have said so means that people don't want it. The loud and whiny minority should not dictate new additions to a game. You think that because you have people on your side that it means that everyone is on your side. They're not. They're not all on my side either, and short of doing a survey of every player, there's no way to tell which side is the majority, so stop making claims out of your ass about the "vocal minority."
The fact of the matter is that the game devs have their vision for the game, and you have your vision for it. Problem is, it's not your game, it's theirs, and just because a few players think it's a good idea, doesn't mean it will get added. Even if it does fit into their vision, it doesn't mean it's a priority for them, and shouting into a bunch of suggestions threads about how you want it is not going to change that.
So, for the last time, GET OVER IT.
Fri, 02/10/2012 - 18:56
#87
This thread has actually
This thread has actually gotten interesting. Eldibs and Treizeknight, great points, although Eldibs, don't use point 3. "why don't you do it? Make a better game" as it is an overused and faulty argument in the fact that one does not have to make their own game to prove something can be done/done better.
Fri, 02/10/2012 - 20:20
#88
Yes, it's true that one
Yes, it's true that one doesn't have to do it themselves to show that it can be done easily. But, the point is that if one cannot do it, why assume it's easy? I only brought up that point because I saw no actual argument that adding this to the game would be easy.
Fri, 02/10/2012 - 21:00
#89
Gonna have to agree with the
Gonna have to agree with the fact that this would be difficult to implement, and if it WERE implemented somehow it would be difficult to balance. They'd have to figure out which weapons would be dual-weildable or not. They'd have to create new attack combos for each possible permutation of dual-weilded weapons. If not, the only options I could think of would be to attack with both at the same time (which would be spammy and overpowered i.e. 2 pulsars, 2 status mists?) or attack with one, then the other (which can already be done by shield cancel and switching). Also, how would you switch your weapons? You can scroll wheel for one wep, but what about the other? How would you switch between dual-weild and single-weild? If not all weapons are dual-weildable then would it just skip that weapon when switching? Dual weapons sounds cool and all, but its just too much work for pretty much no reward. Only thing that I could imagine coming close to this would be a new sword/gun that works like our present swords/guns, takes up one slot, but has a weapon model and animation of a "dual-weilded" weapon. Wouldn't have any point other than aesthetics though.
Sat, 02/11/2012 - 16:55
#90
As I mentioned earlier, and
As I mentioned earlier, and Oreango told me to make a new thread with it. So i did. http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/42873 Didnt attract very much attention though.
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 08:33
#91
hhaahaaha!
You guys should leave this thread alone, and move one to the link HexZyle posted above. continuing would be meaningless since its not in the right place. i love your thoughts on these matters though, made me laugh.
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 09:03
#92
It was dead, and you have
It was dead, and you have just necro'd it.
Good job.
Sat, 04/28/2012 - 09:53
#93
This thread was left alone.
This thread was left alone. For 2 whole months. Nice going there, necromancer.
Thu, 05/03/2012 - 08:28
#94
LOL
I can't believe this was suggested again. What is this? The 12th go-round on duel wielding?
Alright, Here's my thoughts on this:
First of all, I'm for the idea and I don't think it'd be impossible to pull off. I've been playing SK for about a year so I'm in favor of the new challenges this could present (some of the truly elite players are doing Vanaduke in proto gear now so it really doesn't seem too far out of reach as some may think).
Now, some of you are against the mechanics that this would present, but are you really against the look of duel wielding? What if duel wielding was completely cosmetic? Meaning that you get no bonus by going this route but also no draw-backs as well. An example would be the swift-strike buckler. From now on, whenever the SSB is equipped it shows you carrying two of whatever your weapon is. This shield is to boost your speed while crippling your defense right? (Hmmmmm, sounds familiar)
My second option would be that your shield be placed permanently on your back and when your using your weapons you'd be able to block with them using the same defensive strength of the shield on your back. There'd be no bonus from this second option period, except that you'd look completely AWESOME.
Anyway, that's my take on it. What do the rest of you think?
P.S.
To the OP, please revive an old Duel-wielding thread rather than make another (unless, of course, the thread you found has been moved to the graveyard). Thanks.
Thu, 05/03/2012 - 21:41
#95
Uh....
WTF!?
Says the guy who just BUMPED it!
It was on it's way into oblivion already!
Mon, 05/07/2012 - 11:06
#96
:D
Will no one shoot holes in my suggestion? I've made this argument four times in the past and no one ever seems to has a problem with my "for-looks-only" suggestion. It could sort-of be like a height modifier or something. :T
Mon, 05/07/2012 - 11:10
#97
O_O
Why?
Just why?......
Mon, 05/07/2012 - 17:08
#98
Mon, 05/07/2012 - 17:40
#99
...
As a Skolver Clone? Hell no.
Mon, 05/07/2012 - 18:00
#100
@Ironskullkid
That's all? You don't like the armor I used? -_-
Well like Hex said dual wield doesn't mean you cant shield. Who said we can't use our swords as a shield?
They wouldn't be as good as the actual shield for example it can only block frontal attack (unlimited). However they shouldn't be able to block every kind of attack like the scorcher's flame thrower or ground spikes from jellies.
And maybe we can make shield a little better so they don't become obsolete, for example even when your shield breaks you should still be able to block frontal attacks( especially with any kind of plate shield because it make no sense how a think shield like those cant block attacks.
Also if the idea of dual wielding were to be added to the game you should only be able to dual wield similar weapons (because it would pretty hard to decide how to design combos if you wield a trokia and cutter or a gun and a bomb) so i think it would be best to keep dual wield with weapon near the same speed.