Spiral Knights - Callahan support

Callahan support

34 replies [Last post]

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 17:29

Alynn

so.......

After reading stuff and reading stuff and watching videos and reading more stuff, I came to the conclusion/assumption that Callahan shots are weak(under powered) and is not good as a sidearm. I hear it only does around 120dmg per shot in FSC against zombies without gunner equips/trinkets/UVs. And the only use, from the stuff I read, seems to be hitting devilites, healers, and wolvers(T3). Blitz seem to beat it everywhere else.

BUT, it does seem to be great at PVP (personal experience and reading stuff) due to its fast shot and stun.

I can see that Callahan isnt a great DPS gun as Blitz out dmg it, and for swordsmen, BTB or FF would probably do more dmg anyways(and its safer).

What Iv read in almost every post in the fourm is about the crap DPS/solo/Pure gunner aspect of Callahan. What I havnt read, is the support side of this gun.

So my question to Callahan users is this:

Does the gun do enough(dmg, interruption, status, etc) for it to be worth grabbing for a non-gunner party player OUTSIDE PVP?

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 20:17

Jontlemen

Callahan is useful for making

Callahan is useful for making Howlitzers, devilites, regular wolvers, and gremlins flinch. That is, unless you have too many people in your party and the knock down fails to be enough to do so.

Generally, I'd say that Callahan isn't a good choice for non-gunners and you'd be better off with a rapier most of the time. The only enemy it really helps against comparatively are devilites.

EDIT:
Thanks cake for the correction.

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 18:14

Somenubcake

your hypothesis is absolutely correct.

the callahan is a very good support piercing gun. even for a pure gunslinger, it's probably the best support piercing gun (you do need a capable party for it to be a good support gun). however i would not recommend it for a non pure gunner. piercing swords and DBB are better

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 18:18

Tsubasa-No-Me

I have a Iron slug...

Which is just a normal damage Callahan with splash, range, and charge tweaks... but i'll tell you this, it will work well (Cal or Slug) if you have a sword... if they get too far, shoot one or both... zombies breathing down your back? turn, shoot, and get back to smashing!

The flourishes will out DPS... mostly because they're OP and very fast... but also because they're a sword... my suggestion is to have all 3 damages in swords, and use a slug to aid them... The slug will still get Wolvers, devilites and gremlins... but they can now stunlock Puppys and retrodes...

~Tsu

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 18:22

Alynn

ah i see

I guess ima sell my magnus instead of upgrading it

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 18:45

The-Rawrcake

"and the knockback fails to

"and the knockback fails to be enough to do so."

There is no knockback on Callahan. Knock down is what you were looking for, I have heard people call Callahan bad for groups because of knockback. Which makes no sense.

"piercing swords and DBB are better"

This - if you are anything but a pure gunner, then choose one of those two based on what you are / playstyle.

"but they can now stunlock Puppys and retrodes..."

@Tsu, What do you mean by this? Interrupt gun puppy attacks? cause stun? If you meant cause stun that is just Callahan, and you are better off killin the puppys and retrodes with because stun isn't worth that.

"I guess ima sell my magnus instead of upgrading it"

Woah woah woah you might think of going pure gunner after you get bored of this game - not much content, at least currently. I would keep it in your inventory just incase.

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 19:34

Otaia

Callahan's damage on monsters

Callahan's damage on monsters that aren't weak to piercing is pitiful and knockdown isn't that great unless you're fighting one monster at a time. I think Stun is the least useful PvE status in the game (besides Sleep).

I wouldn't use a piercing gun as a utility gun. Monsters weak to piercing:

Chromalisk - easiest monster in the game
Wolver - 3rd easiest monster in the game (after Scuttlebots)
Alpha Wolver - also pretty easy post-nerf
Devilite - better off using a Blitz / BTB / FF / DBB?
Trojan - better off using a Blitz / BTB / FF / DBB
Silkwing surrounded by monsters - better off using a Blitz or charge spamming a Brandish / Sealed Sword

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 21:17

Bopp

and greavers

Otaia left out greavers. Greavers are fiends.

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 21:26

Alynn

@Rawrcake

well..........the thing is, I already have a strike needle and once I upgrade it to Blitz, it would serve as my main piercing gun

I don't know if Callahan is worth replacing Blitz, even as a pure gunner, mainly cause of the crappy dmg output compared to Blitz.

I don't really know this but what do gunners use their callahan on anyways? just the ones that dodge, like devilites and wolvers, and sometimes healers? cause if that is the case, I dont see the point of getting it. I have a BTB and a DBB that I can use to kill devilites and wolvers with ease, and healers dont really bother me that much cause i can kill them pretty fast most of the time.

The people that I have talked to ingame that have Callahan say they got it mostly for style/PVP and they rarely use it in the clockworks. But then again, I havnt talked to any pure gunner about it and Im interested in hearing from one.

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 22:25

The-Rawrcake

Sorry I had a TON of stuff

Sorry I had a TON of stuff written out but then I hit back button and lost ALL OF IT

So because most of you are wolver clones, I am going to be that guy and not explain what I was going to. Get gunner gear and find out yourself, if I was ever to talk smack about a sword without swordsman gear people can just ignore me because I am the minority and look at me as a naked swordsman.

You guys talk smack about guns and apparently you are correct and others without gunner bonuses as well agree being the majority. So keep using blitz on devilites, I will be enjoying my burst damage for dodgers and knock down (and using my blitz properly for that matter).

One thing I will tell you is that Callahan is not a DPS gun. Blitz is a DPS gun. Callahan deals burst damage. Blitz does not deal burst damage (ton of tiny bullets does not equal burst that is called a DPS wep) And for the love of god, do not interpret "burst damage" as "looks bursty-like." I am aware you see a gajillion numbers on Vanaduke using a blitz, regardless that is not what burst damage is.

Think of what type of damage would be useful on a dodger and think of which of the two you use on trojans / slags and Vanaduke.

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 22:14

#10

Demonicsothe

Pure gunner is not a play

Pure gunner is not a play style with benefits. Its.. a vanity? For those who wishes to use guns, all guns, and only guns. They pick callahan over blitz, as most of the piercing weakness enemies are dodgey. Wolvers, devlites, and to some extent, greavers. None of those give you time to correct a bad aim. You don't want to be firing a blitz, when a wolver/devlite slips behind u to attack. The individual bullet speed of calla is more effective at hitting, and thus dealing damage.

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 22:17

#11

The-Rawrcake

"Devilite - better off using

"Devilite - better off using a Blitz / BTB / FF / DBB?"

Thank you for using a question mark - I feel better now.

And no, if you were fishing for random weapons to try and come up with something that out-performs Callahan on devilites, the correct answer was Polaris.

Polaris on big groups of devilites.

Callahan on small.

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 22:28

#12

The-Rawrcake

"Pure gunner is not a play

"Pure gunner is not a play style with benefits. Its.. a vanity? For those who wishes to use guns, all guns, and only guns. They pick callahan over blitz, as most of the piercing weakness enemies are dodgey. Wolvers, devlites, and to some extent, greavers. None of those give you time to correct a bad aim. You don't want to be firing a blitz, when a wolver/devlite slips behind u to attack. The individual bullet speed of calla is more effective at hitting, and thus dealing damage."

We are by no means vain. Gunning gains survivability in more than just kiting situations and killing gun puppies. On the topic of gun puppies, we kill them more effectively with our bonuses.

For example, some people hate devilites where they are my favorite to kill without shadow defense or the proper shield because shadow defense and the proper shield is not necessary when you run around spamming polaris / Callahan snipe.

especially soloing as a gunner has benefits... if it didn't have any benefits, we wouldn't be wasting our time with it.

But you are right, that is what I mean burst > DPS if anyone doesn't get what I am saying.

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 22:28

#13

Alynn

well

that basically answers my question
Callahan isnt a good sidearm for non-pure gunners

but I will keep my magnus JUST IN CASE Callahan gets buffed in the future. My weapon are chosen based on 70% usefulness and 30% looks :P
Callahan definitely gets 10/10 for looks but only 6/10 for usefulness right now. if its usefulness gets buffed, then ima get it cause iv always wanted that gun but Iv also been VERY hesitant on the usefulness.

Guess im not ready for Callahan just yet

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 22:43

#14

Demonicsothe

I don't argue the

I don't argue the effectiveness of guns. I won't as I use two swords and a gun loadout. They work. Gun puppies can eat my volt driver charge anyday.

Sorry, I meant that a pure gunner is not as effective as a hybrid gun+sword, or vice versa.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 00:00

#15

Batabii

Use it on wolvers, gremlins,

Use it on wolvers, gremlins, and devilites. You won't be sorry.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 08:22

#16

Otaia

@Bopp oops, I didn't mean to

@Bopp oops, I didn't mean to "conveniently" forget the only monster I'd prefer to use Callahan on.

@The-Rawrcake I do wear gunner gear. Here is my current loadout:

Nameless set
Crest of Almire
Blitz Needle
Nova Driver
Shadow Nightblade
Elite Trueshot module

I have no idea what you mean by saying that Callahan is a burst damage weapon. Burst damage is usually defined as "a lot of damage at once." Blitz Needle's strength comes its charge attack, which can one-shot some monsters even in a party of 4 and one-shot 3-4 monsters at once when soloing. You don't spam it. You wait for an opportunity to use it, then let loose. On the other hand, Callahan is a weapon where you use by constantly zipping around, taking potshots. Seems to me that Blitz Needle is more of a burst damage weapon. Also, sustained DPS is usually better than burst DPS in PvE unless you're dealing with monsters healing.

The question mark for Devilites was only meant for DBB, because I have no experience using bombs and don't know how effective they are against Devilites. Blitz Needle obliterates Devilites when they are alone. I'd only use Callahan instead in the Dark City levels, where Devilites are supported with Kats and Greavers. Blitz Needle is weak against monsters that zoom up to you and surround you.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 08:34

#17

The-Rawrcake

"Burst damage is usually

"Burst damage is usually defined as "a lot of damage at once.""

I'll quote myself to answer this, "And for the love of god, do not interpret "burst damage" as "looks bursty-like." I am aware you see a gajillion numbers on Vanaduke using a blitz, regardless that is not what burst damage is." That is called a DPS weapon.

"I have no idea what you mean by saying that Callahan is a burst damage weapon. Burst damage is usually defined as "a lot of damage at once."

Callahan is a lot of damage at once. Blitz needle is a lot of damage in many bullets. With a Callahan, being a lot of damage at once, you can get one great shot in before a dodger dodges, if that dodger even ends up dodging.

"Blitz Needle's strength comes its charge attack, which can one-shot some monsters even in a party of 4 and one-shot 3-4 monsters at once when soloing. You don't spam it. You wait for an opportunity to use it, then let loose. On the other hand, Callahan is a weapon where you use by constantly zipping around, taking potshots. Seems to me that Blitz Needle is more of a burst damage weapon."

Once again, don't interpret burst damage as looks bursty like.

The reason you can take a whole bunch of potshots on things with a Callahan is because it is burst: a lot of damage at once.

If you fire a blitz needle's charge at a wolver that isn't doing anything a ways away from you, not only will most bullets miss due to the fanning effect, but the wolver will burrow, causing most of the charge to miss.

Think of Burst vs. no burst in PvP. In every MMO with PvP, you do not look at DPS, you want burst damage. In PvP in other MMOs with healing, you would want to burst someone down before they get healed. In lockdown, you use an Umbra or Callahan because it is 2-shot, and once practiced, easy to hit someone that runs around dodging and hit them hard.

Now let's pretend this is in PvE, wolvers aren't so much running around dodging, but burrowing which is much faster yet. Devilites have that quick side step.

When you described Blitz, you described it as a "sometimes" gun. A Callahan's all about "always."

"Blitz Needle obliterates Devilites when they are alone. I'd only use Callahan instead in the Dark City levels, where Devilites are supported with Kats and Greavers. Blitz Needle is weak against monsters that zoom up to you and surround you."

Then I have no clue how you knew this yet interpreted "Devilite - better off using blitz"

Wolvers and Devilites (and Gremlins) tend to be in packs.

they do not let us fight 1 monster at a time :)

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 08:35

#18

The-Rawrcake

"Elite Trueshot module" Is

"Elite Trueshot module"

Is that one or two?

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 09:00

#19

Fradow

"Callahan is a lot of damage

"Callahan is a lot of damage at once"
No it's not. At least, not by my standards. Its damage is just a little above average (with the proper stuff).

"Blitz needle is a lot of damage in many bullets"
You can also say : it's a lot of damage in a short timeframe, then you are out. Which is my definition of burst. And it will also one charge kill almost any enemy. Which is also in my description of a good burst.

"If you fire a blitz needle's charge at a wolver that isn't doing anything a ways away from you, not only will most bullets miss due to the fanning effect, but the wolver will burrow, causing most of the charge to miss."
Even by missing 3/4 of the bullets, it still do better burst damage than Callahan. May I point you to the old demo done by Abathur : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krJtNczQ5zU ? It starts at 2:30 for blitz vs wolvers. Keep in mind it was before the nerf and you can do way better now because wolvers won't turn/burrow when they attack (wait for them to attack, go on their side, OS them).

The PvP argument is moot since the Blitz Needle makes it useless there because of game mechanics. I'm sure we would see more Needle if the game mechanics didn't break it, but that's pure speculation.

You seem to have a non-standard (to not say strange) conception of burst, where burst doesn't mean huge damage and doesn't mean after doing it you are out for a good amount of time.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 09:13

#20

Otaia

What you're saying does not

What you're saying does not make any sense whatsoever. If you hit someone with a Blitz charge in PvP, they die instantly. Burst damage. Pretend for a second that Callahan wasn't like 3-4x weaker than Blitz Needle, and that the total DPS on both weapons was equal. Callahan lets you shoot once every second (or whatever the interval is). Blitz Needle takes a couple seconds to charge up, then does all of that damage at once. After firing Blitz, you're unable to do another charge shot for a few seconds. Blitz Needle is in every way a more bursty weapon than Callahan.

I believe that you're trying to say that Callahan has a faster attack point than Blitz. This is true. Your bullets hit almost immediately after you click, and you can start moving away to do other things. This means you are not left open for very long when firing Callahan. That's why people use it for PvP, not because it's good for "bursting someone down."

Devilites are typically only accompanied by other Devilites and occasionally a Silkwing. Haunted Passage and Devilish Drudgery maps have plenty of walls to hide behind, narrow pathways, and open spaces in which to dodge. You can force Devilites to pile up and come at you from one direction, which makes them extremely easy to dodge. Throwing two Blitz Needle charge into a pack of Devilites usually kills them all. Blitz Needle bullets are fast and Devilites do not dodge them (if they do dodge, it's after the first bullets have already hit them, and they usually get hit by more bullets because of the spread). If you're using a Blitz Needle charge while Overtimers are darting around, you're doing it wrong.

And I don't know why people keep talking about Wolvers. Wolvers project their attacks for a very long time. They have very little range. They don't even turn any more. You should hardly even consider Wolvers when choosing your weapons. No one gets piercing armor for PvE because of Wolvers, if they do get it, it's for Jellies (which are also fairly easy). And even if Wolvers dodge your Blitz Needle shots, Blitz Needle is still so much stronger than Callahan that they end up dying at about the same speed if not faster.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 10:28

#21

Alynn

Callahan is "inferior" to Blitz in almost every in the hands of a expert gunner except its bullet speed and knockdown

thats the idea im getting from all the posts

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 10:34

#22

Paweu

"Callahan is "inferior" to

"Callahan is "inferior" to Blitz in almost every in the hands of a expert gunner except its bullet speed and knockdown"
Yeah sure, but only if that expert gunner has some kind of magic that will freeze all monsters around you, otherwise, sorry, nope.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 10:38

#23

Demonicsothe

People use best case

People use best case scenarios to compare things. Best case, blitz will yes, be better. But that's assuming nothing dodges. Yes, you can herd them all into a tight corridor. But the city with fiends, tend to not have tight corridors to fire through. And not every floor has such corridors to do so.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 11:17

#24

Somenubcake

@ Paweu

'"Callahan is "inferior" to Blitz in almost every in the hands of a expert gunner except its bullet speed and knockdown"
Yeah sure, but only if that expert gunner has some kind of magic that will freeze all monsters around you, otherwise, sorry, nope.'

good job labelling yourself as someone who isn't an expert blitz user lol

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 11:20

#25

Paweu

"good job labelling yourself

"good job labelling yourself as someone who isn't an expert blitz user lol"
Record a video of doing Dark City levels with blitz only not using SMB, go ahead, i'll wait

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 12:40

#26

The-Rawrcake

Just show us a video of dark

Just show us a video of dark city... please... only blitz the entire time instead of polaris / Cally, don't even need a video, do it solo, and report how good that went. Please do multiple dark city runs too so it isn't just an easy dark city.

Anyways, Callahan is 10x safer if you want to argue that. Try using Callahan vs. Blitz on a solo vana run w/o shiver. Callahan is very useful on him, once you learn when to shoot / shield to avoid bad stun, I managed to kill him solo Callahan only with one revive because I am awful at mask phase (even with full elemental def).

I have watched gunners in my group die from using blitz multiple times in dark cities and even on wolvers before and after the derp patch and still tell me how it is so much better.

So forget that it is "bad damage," forget what we all think "burst" means, and find out what it is like mobility / survivability wise.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 12:40

#27

Somenubcake

@Paweu

for dark city (and any small rooms with devilites), i agree the callahan is the better of the two. but in general, the blitz isn't as bad as you've described it (unless you are exaggerating of course)

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 12:44

#28

Nicoya-Kitty

For the record, the DBB is

For the record, the DBB is spectacular against devilites. Just make sure you have some CTR and are quick on your feet with the dodging.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 12:57

#29

The-Rawrcake

what the... a double post

@ Fradow, when you utilize a Callahan you don't have to wait for charge times / worry about those few charges where he did obviously waste (there were a few).

We really cannot claim that blitz makes wolver levels go quicker than the cally unless we have a good (not that one where the guy has auto taget on permanent and not hold shift and wastes like 50 shots) video of someone using Callahan to compare.

And something more difficult than wolvers to test survivability, like I said before, try using blitz + some other gun only for kats but blitz for everything else and report how great it is.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 12:55

#30

Batabii

I don't know, I dont like

I don't know, I dont like using DBB for devilites, it leaves you too vulnerable between charges and you don't have the freedom to shield-cancel. BTB lets you strike fast and hard while still being versatile, interrupting their attacks quickly. And I'd rather use RSS anyway if there's big enough groups to bother bombing.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 15:07

#31

Otaia

If people you're partied with

If people you're partied with die to Wolvers, they're either bad or lagging heavily. Callahan isn't going to save you there. Even if you're wearing Vog /Snarb and using DA/Acheron/FF/Polaris (typically considered the best well-rounded loadout), you can still lose if you don't know how to play. The game is fairly easy, but you do need to dodge.

Myself and others have already admitted that Blitz Needle is not the most effective weapon in places like Dark City. I can get through it, but I do have to play carefully and I do take some damage. Well, okay, but it's not as if Blitz is designed to be an all-around utility weapon. The fact that you have to do some digging and narrowing down just to get an example of a situation where you might want to use a Callahan over a weapon that has as big of a limitation as Blitz Needle just proves how unsuitable it is as a utility weapon. Even in the niche situations where Callahan is worth using, it can be replaced by a weapon with more utility.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 15:40

#32

Paweu

"I do take some

"I do take some damage."
Enjoy your energy revives. I also laughed in real life on the "niche situations" bits. Well, you tell that to the fiends in danger rooms/arenas/[shock/freeze] devilish drudgeries/infernal passages once they kill you.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 17:34

#33

Blue-Flood

Callahan is fun. I managed to

Callahan is fun.
I managed to craft a flourish to see how easy it was to win with in PvP, and must admit that while I heated it it was better against wolvers even before the nerf. Two hits with it then dodge produces much more damage then one shot at a time from callahan (even with damage modifiers). On the flip side, committing yourself to sword swings against devilites is painful. I can't seem to solo those areas with that sword, but I manage to with a callahan/hail driver.
Then again I only used it till FF was heated to lvl 10.
Blitz I'm not a fan of in general. Basically useless in LD, and only useful in certain situations in clockworks. If you could at least rotate while shooting... no I still wouldn't use it. Sentenza or AP are choice.

To answer the origional post, no. Stick with the flourish outside of pvp. You should be able to take down devilites fast enough before ya run out of health, and the wolvers are a snap. Just my opinion.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 20:23

#34

Batabii

If you use BTB or DBB you

If you use BTB or DBB you barely need to dodge at all since they deal so much damage and knock wolvers down constantly.. Callahan knocks down too, but needs better aim. Plus if you miss, the wolvers will teleport.

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