Spiral Knights - Flame on: Remove Energy System

Flame on: Remove Energy System

41 replies [Last post]

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 19:47

Phuxer

In a Nutshell i just started playing and having fun then realised all of a sudden its 1 of them "Energy" games....have not found a good game till now, killing mobs killing bosses getting ores and such and now im sat at 0 energy and litteraly nothing to do at all...nothing...zilch nadda not even a side thing to do that dont cost any energy but fun to do...

Please do more microtrans and remove the energy system! i want to play more but i will not be forced into buying play time! i feel like the coins have i worked hard for im just throwing away to pay for game time and not actual items that it should be used for.... that is not free to play in my eye's.

Also dont come at me with the whole "but they will lose money" and "there a buisness" i dont care about any of that, thats there job not ours.

The F2P label standards have gone downhill allot recently and it needs to change. Vindictus and Dragons Nest are much better games and have removed the energy system they had and are doing incredibly well...besides the hackers ofc, only reason im not playing them is cuz my laptop got downgraded and i cant play them anymore. so i play this game in place of them...for now.

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 19:52

Imperialstriker

omg

"The money problem is their problem not ours."

Oh for lord's sake do you want this to become a Runescape Scenario where 90% of all content is locked away permanently behind a membership?!

Be glad you at least can ACCESS all content in the game.

But I bet you wouldn't care cause "that's their solution to the problem."

The greed that taints humanity to this day haunts my flesh and soul.

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 20:06

Phuxer

hmmm

No thats why i said more microtrans as in vanity and pets and such that can make money, where did i say membership cuz im pretty sure i did not say that? runescape sucks compared to this game..i should know i played it for years and even payed for a sub.

Also i cant ACCESS anything when i have 0 energy. only thing i can do is wait ages or log out and both options is not playing the "F2P" game as mentioned its more like F2W (Free2Wait) if anything. whats worse is the energy regen is incredibly slow! Empires and Allies has a faster Energy regen system! that gives 1 energy every 5 mins. (i think...that or lower).

There is a difference between Greed and Need, i learned that playing World of Warcraft. played many rpg games in my lifetime, its the only kind of game i play really.

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 20:10

Imperialstriker

Alright new Question

What tier can u currently access?

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 20:20

Phuxer

Tier 1 because i cant do

Tier 1 because i cant do anything with 0 energy..its terrible for new players.

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 20:35

Darkbrady

Aye, the game is extremely

Aye, the game is extremely slow for new players, anyone will admit that; there's an ongoing rally to get T1 costs reduced to 5 specifically for new players. You can also join guilds and people are more willing to be helpful than ever now; with elevator passes, people have mist that they have less use for.

Fact is, that due to energy being the solution to their costs, it means that the entire game is completely accessible to everyone.
Other MMOs:
Membership fees to get access to increased content.
Initial purchases+extra payment.
Subscription.
Or the other kind of microtransactions, where you buy "goods" that, no matter how well you play it off, always winds up paying off better to p2p.

Here, p2p can get access to things *faster*, but they can never get access to *better* things, or become better to the game, and they get access to nothing that the f2ps can't get (excluding the ele pass)

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 20:52

Phuxer

Yup

At least you make more of a fair post than others but yes i know they need to make money but hitting play time with a "energy" microtrans is just shameful and low in my books.. Do anything with loot and such and do tons of microtrans but never touch playtime with an energy block. Always hurts the new players and turns them off very fast. 10 energy a floor? I get 10 floors a day and u call that f2p?. Cmon...

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 20:55

Metagenic

look at it this way

OOO are kind of anti-noob; they want to keep their hardcore fanbase but not attract new players.

Your suggestion makes sense and I agree somewhat, but they would never implement it.

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 20:58

Nechrome

No. Don't ask why. Just...

No.

Don't ask why. Just... no. It'll make things way to easy.

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 21:16

Phuxer

Easy?

It wont make anything easy. It will make the game more appealing and accessable to new and old players.

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 21:23

#10

Nechrome

Well, think of it this way.

Well, think of it this way. Every day, you do runs and more runs and even more runs. You don't have to spend any energy, so you can do unlimited.

Then, when you're done, you'd have a bunch of crowns because you did runs all day. you buy a bunch of recipes, and guess what? THey don't need energy to be crafted! Only cr, mats, and any previous weapons. You craft a bunch of weapons and the such like, and you're suddenly in the next teir! Congratulations!

You could pretty much get to endgame in a few days if you do ^^^. So no. But seeing from your point of view, I guess that they could give you a bit more mist energy or a faster regen time.

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 21:29

#11

Phuxer

Indeed

I know what u mean i was thinking of it as well, maybe keep energy as a side thing for crafting and maybe some other stuff for the future. But let rides be free? And add more micro trans n such.

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 21:32

#12

Blaze-Breaker

The issue is that CE prices

The issue is that CE prices will skyrocket because there'll be infinite crowns and limited CE. That will make the game much more of a grindfest.

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 21:34

#13

Blaze-Breaker

Assuming you're saying they

Double post. My apologies.

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 21:42

#14

Phuxer

Yeh..

Well the game itself is a big grind fest but the unlimited rides would not change anything about it, people could do more runs in the end.

About the skyrocketing of crowns can be changed by making crafted stuff more expensive crown wise ... Nice if they made loot more interactive with gem slots or enhancement system to sink some crowns..... Maybe even add a dye system?

Sat, 01/21/2012 - 22:13

#15

Darkbrady

What you're saying is to make

What you're saying is to make things more expensive and remove limitations. That'll turn it into every MMO where you /have/ to spend 6 hours a day grinding runs over and over to make money. As things are, crafting a full 5* set takes a good while in making money. Let CE prices skyrocket and increasing other costs will mean you /can/ run all day every day, but it'll also mean that you'll be forever trapped in T1 if you /don't/.

There's no two ways about it, the game is horrifically slow to start up, no one's denying that. But once you have started up, runs start to pay for themselves, and you can buy CE to keep playing free thereafter. It starts slow, but if you stick it out, when you get to that stage (which is sooner than you'd expect, btw) then you'll be set. As soon as you can do a run that pays for 100 ce, then all your costs are mitigated right there, and you don't have to live on mist anymore.

Beyond that, you can always suck it up and pay.
Starter pack is costly, but gives you heaps of raw CE and goodies to play with.
Ele pass is very cheap and lasts a month, which mitigates ALL elevator costs in the game, letting you play as long as you want, and allowing every run to make a full profit.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 00:24

#16

Severage

Oh boy..

"In a Nutshell i just started playing and having fun then realised all of a sudden its 1 of them "Energy" games....have not found a good game till now, killing mobs killing bosses getting ores and such and now im sat at 0 energy and litteraly nothing to do at all...nothing...zilch nadda not even a side thing to do that dont cost any energy but fun to do..." - Phuxer
------------------------------------------------

Clearly you have just started playing because you can always play LD and BN which are free to do. And, if you haven't found any other good games, you haven't looked very hard.

"Please do more microtrans and remove the energy system! i want to play more but i will not be forced into buying play time! i feel like the coins have i worked hard for im just throwing away to pay for game time and not actual items that it should be used for.... that is not free to play in my eye's." -Phuxer
---------------------------------------------

No, you're not forced into buying play time. 100 Mist is a decent amount of time to play the game, buying more time is an option. The coins you've "worked for" generally go to crafting items, and although it is difficult for F2Pers to get 5* gears, it's plenty possible.

"Also dont come at me with the whole "but they will lose money" and "there a buisness" i dont care about any of that, thats there job not ours." - Phuxer
-------------------------------------------------
If you don't care about any of that, then this game will die, and your account along with it. It IS their job, and this is what they've come up with.

"The F2P label standards have gone downhill allot recently and it needs to change. Vindictus and Dragons Nest are much better games and have removed the energy system they had and are doing incredibly well...besides the hackers ofc, only reason im not playing them is cuz my laptop got downgraded and i cant play them anymore. so i play this game in place of them...for now." - Phuxer
---------------------------------------------------------------
"A lot" is two words. And here you contradict yourself first saying "have not found a good game till now,", now you say there are games that are better? No logic here. If they have hackers, it's most likely not a good PC game.

I don't care what game you play, Free-To-Play will almost ALWAYS, 99% of the time, have limitations. If it doesn't, then it will be overrun with advertisements wherever you go. If you don't buy playing time, you'll be buying convenience items, reduce-build/learn skill time items, or a subscription fee. They have to make money somewhere.

~Sev

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 03:32

#17

Asukalan

DOH, mircotransactions are

DOH, mircotransactions are worst thing in games. Hey wanna this? DONG PAY. Hey wanna go there? DONG PAY Hey wanna move right? DONG PAY Sorry, you cant go upwards, you need to go left and down, wanngo up? DONG PAY

Phuxer, you just admited that you started playing recently. You should visit a New recruits section and dig there a little, there are suggestions how to start a game in right way to not bancrupt on very beginning. Also you should check out a wiki page to start thinking about right equipment (since choosing wrong stuff on very beginning will just make you regret wasting energy on useless stuff).

Playing on beginning is all about managing your CE and Crowns, you cant afford going into wrong direction.

Also i cant shake feeling that you came here from other game, played a bit, though "OMG this game is not like the other i played" *tup tup tup* suggestions.."please make it tatatatat, and dadaadada oh and i dont care how you make it"

You should play, learn a bit about game and then start posting suggestions.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 03:32

#18

Melisan

@Phuxer

A lot is indeed two words, also "*they're* a business”,” *that's their* job not ours" and many others...
Yay another poor me, self-entitled pile of nonsense with poor grammar and spelling. Go away and play another game, this forum is already bursting with moaners like you. There are many people in this gamer at 5* status who have never spent a dollar on energy.
Rather than whine about it, use the forum's search box and find ways to make your energy go further. Make a few friends and do boss runs. It takes a while to get off the starting blocks but no longer than two weeks at the most.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 04:24

#19

Phuxer

Moaners...

Im not moaning, im trying to make a decent thread about energy. This is the reason i hate txt talking u can never understand how things come across. Im a new person who has has many years playing RPG style games its not like i dont know what im talking about.

Also attacking me for my grammar? Grow up mate this is the internet if hadn't noticed, typing from an iphone also at the moment .

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 04:32

#20

Melisan

About your iPhone, not my

About your iPhone, not my problem. It does come across like you don't know what you are talking about. Maybe you should get a little more experience in this game before making suggestions here like Asukalanforum said.
Also why should I "grow up"? You’re the one with poor spelling grammar.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 05:31

#21

Triplescrew

@ Phuxer

Haaaaa~!

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 05:40

#22

Phuxer

There is always 1...

This is a thread about energy, if you have nothing posative to contribute dont talk in my thread. ill report you for personal attacks if you keep going on about something as petty as grammar. 95% of the people on the internet dont have pro leet typing skills and as long as you understand what im typing i see no problem with it.

Back on topic.

No i dont have much experience in this game..know why? because i cant get any when im sat in town doing nothing! i just got on now and spent my measly 40 energy on 4 dungeons and yet again im sat bored doing nothing. not enough crowns to buy any energy ether. something needs to be done and soon.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 06:45

#23

Xsword-Master

right

you extremly,mega,alfa,elita,epic,suger attck,right!

this not f2f game!

i think the energy shold only use for bouns and crafting

make more staff to buy with energy and then sega still get the money for making the game even better!

if the compeny denied the suggest i stop playing this game FOREVER!

even thet is gone be extremly,super,epic,chips killer,damm hard!

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 06:51

#24

Phuxer

ok...

Zsword please tell me ur trolling....you doing this because we talked about grammer and now you abuse it to the max....but at least i can understand it...kinda.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 06:54

#25

Softhead

Wut?

I agree with the other RATIONAL people. -1

Xsword-master, I didn't understand a word. This is a F2P/P2P game. The game you don't have to subscribe or pay to play, but pay to advance quicker. Energy is the way they get money. If they remove E for lv, more crowns, flood energy market, kills game. If OOO doesn't listen to your request, the community would be a better place. Also, GRAMMAR! God, what are you four?

F2P= You don't pay to play/don't Subscribe ect.

I don't think you understand this game or a bit of ecomnomics.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 07:27

#26

Phuxer

right...

I played every kind of rpg mmo game there is i know a lot about economy and balance. i already said there is solution about this and ways to deal with it.
If i just said " i want energy gone now" with no reason or explanation that my friend IS IRATIONAL, but at least i explain and give insight into what im talking about.

Also you said "The game you don't have to subscribe or pay to play, but pay to advance quicker." No thats where you are wrong, its more like "pay to actually play the game" OR "Dont pay and you cant play the game at all" unless you call sitting in town doing nothing "playing the game".

Also 1 more personal attack on grammar and ur reported. sick of you grammar nazi's that have nothing better to do than point out flaws in text.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 08:01

#27

Softhead

Wut?

Report people for what? You're being Irrational. Also, this isn't ingame. I could report you for reporting someone else for no reason.

People can go t3 as F2P. Just alot of grinding.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 09:03

#28

Imperialstriker

Alright...

look, lettme tell you (as another F2P player) it will get better.

Have you heard of the "Royal Jelly Palace" ?

It's crown output is 6-7k crowns.

All you gotta do is conserve your energy, and slowly, but surely, upgrade your gear.

What are you? Swordie, bomber, or gunslinger?

Look up the spiral knights wiki for the details, but if you want the quick stuff:

Bomber is spiral demo.
Gunslinger is gunslinger set.
Swordie is wolver set.

Once u get the sets and a good weapon and shield to par (consider owlite or plate shield as your firs choices). You can begin grinding T2 for it's huge crown output.

It is a grind. But so is almost every other MMORPG.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 09:45

#29

Autofire

What you aren't getting is

What you aren't getting is that you play a run, then wait for the next day. When you grind like mad, (which you "must" do in other games anyway) it starts to drain the fun out. One point of the energy system (which at least I think is a point) is to help keep people from sitting in front of the screen all the time. The other thing is, it keeps people playing the game. This may sound opposite, but the energy keeps people from getting all of the items right away, so this makes it so if you want to get all the items, you have to keep playing the game. Unfortunately, it seems to also deter new players. -_-

I have gone through the same experience as you, wanting to play the game more then the energy system allows, but look at it this way: by playing the game some everyday, instead of playing it during all your free time, you keep the game feeling, idk, fresh? The fastest way to get to the fun part is to join a nice guild, such as BnFn(By Noobs, For Noobs) or BoE. (Brothers of Eternity, in which I am a guild master)

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 10:16

#30

Darkbrady

I played every kind of rpg

I played every kind of rpg mmo game there is i know a lot about economy and balance. i already said there is solution about this and ways to deal with it.

Obviously not enough.
Energy games generally suck, but SK managed to get a solid balance for the latter 3/4 of the game. unfortunately, the first quarter or so of the game remains slow and grindy, but there are people trying to get them to fix that.

Forget all this "remove energy, crowns will inflate blah blah blah" crap.

Want it in a nutshell?

remove energy and one of three things will happen:
1/ the game shuts down. You lose, they lose, we lose, everyone loses. Crap plan.
2/ they convert into cash shop sales, promoting pay-to-advance and allowing P2Ps an edge over F2Ps like most other games. No one likes that, SK is popular because they've done a fantastic job of completely avoiding that.
3/ They game lives on, funded by genies, no one ever pays energy and we all get free Darkfang Shields. Cool plan, but not very likely.

In other words, quit complaini'n about the energy; removing it will do NOTHING other than make things worse. What you should be doing is ralllying to have T1 elevator costs reduced, that's all you want, that's all everyone wants, and that way you'd be far more productive than rantin' on a doomed thread that will never, ever, ever get Dev attention.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 10:42

#31

Melisan

"This is a thread about

"This is a thread about energy; if you have nothing positive to contribute don’t talk in my thread", Firstly this is an open forum, secondly just because a comment isn't positive, doesn’t mean it's not constructive. If people didn't see both sides of a discussion then it would be useless to bring the suggestion to bear. Don't get upset because we are not sycophantically fawning over your idea, just accept that it has been discussed before, found to be a bad idea and thrown out.
On the topic of personal attacks, if you are not going to bother to search for previous threads on the same subject, expect people to be annoyed that you have been too lazy to do so, and have created yet another energy thread that has nothing new to offer.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 12:02

#32

Zyborg

I've read through this entire

I've read through this entire thread, yet I don't see what any of this has to do with the Human Torch.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 14:31

#33

Hexzyle

@Darkbrady

I am going to copy your post, and put it on any "I want infinite mist energy NOW" thread I see. Is that okay with you? :D

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 16:16

#34

Fehzor

At its core, Spiral Knights is a rather greedy game, and this scares off new players. Obviously, you are right, removing the energy system would benefit the game in the long run. In the short run, it would make a lot of people WHO PAID rather angry. You aren't the first to bring this up, and you certainly won't be the last.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 19:18

#35

Phuxer

ugh..

I been playing all day and grinding royal jelly palace, its nice. im a bomber and im am using the spiral set. im in full tier 2 armor and now im in tier 2 the coin has picked up allot more and now i can actually buy energy with cash to spare. guess id say lower the energy cost for rides for newer players. it really is terrible start for them.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 23:12

#36

Demonicsothe

Now do you see why there is a

Now do you see why there is a rather negative view on your remove energy suggestion? The moment anyone hits T2, they can run on ce and still make profit.

5 equipment at 2*. That is anywhere around 5k to 10k worth of crowns. And if you follow any kind of guide, you would run snarby gates, getting enough tokens for the shield or sword. All 2* gear. It shouldn't take more than 5 days to actually get gear for 2*, with the cr payout letting you buy some wolver or demo suits at almost one item every run.

Lowering T1 costs might sound like a great idea, but hits upon the problem of higher tier players farming low tiers because it is reduced elevator costs. Why run fsc, when you can run gww for less than half the costs, way less time, and still a smilar cr per ce output?

Mon, 01/23/2012 - 01:17

#37

Metagenic

My thoughts

Make T1 elevators cost 8 energy, that way you can squeeze in 12 levels in a day instead of 10 and still have 4 mist left over. A 20% discount should be reasonable.

Mon, 01/23/2012 - 01:28

#38

Melisan

You get 100 mist energy every

You get 100 mist energy every 22 hours (more or less) so time it to play in the evenings (after school/work), sleep, then the next day play some more. By the weekend you should have enough to play as much as you like.

Mon, 01/23/2012 - 03:02

#39

Skold-The-Drac

T2 opens things up

Don't waste too much time on 1* gear... maybe if you want to do T1 lockdown events, but apart from that save your crowns and energy up for 2* equipment. I played for 2 weeks (off and on) and have made it to the point that the only reason I can't play more is because I lagged up in the comp and got killed in boss levels like Roarmulous twins, or just because I wanted to ragecraft some more 2* items and sell the ones I don't want.
Honestly if you wait to get 4 people in a party with some 2* equips, you can get a profit in crowns by about 200-1.2k in ANY t2 series and continue to play with CE. That's estimating a tad low (I manage to pull large crystals most the time and sell mats that I will never use).
If you get good enough at T1 Lockdown matches you can play close to endlessly and continue to profit off those matches albeit a bit slowly but it's fun. Enamorocks and heart pendants sell really well in the game. In fact I'm working on getting a pendant slot opened up and making it to where that slot can permanently be used for me. (using 200 CE a month is not that bad and helps keep your butt alive when you make those mistakes or lag up for a bit)
And honestly anyone who regularly plays T2 will tell you that recipes are a profitable venture if you're willing to afford it. (Aka CE becomes more and more liquid as you get along in the game)
You wanna know something? A person named Kuger funds a roughly 40 CE/day operation in Treasure Vault called "Question of the Day". They're an awesome person because they can plunge through the clockworks and make enough CE to regularly play and still fund that forum. So instead of whining about energy... realize that SK did an amazing job about balancing the game. They are indeed more F2P than a long list of games that advertise themselves as F2P.

TL;DR making it to tier 2 opens up SK's playability (play length), people all over SK develop means to play often as they like without paying and will even give some CE to others, SK did an amazing job and in fact earned their F2P stamp a lot more than multiple other games

Mon, 01/23/2012 - 05:48

#40

Spyash

is t1 really that hard?

i found t1 insanely easy i didn't spend any crowns till i got up to 4700 and some thing in a day of good work. i went over to my friends house the next day (he asked if i knew the game cuz he thought i might like it i said i did and we played it on his computers) i saw his gear asked "wow! how did you get that?" he showed my how to find cheap prices in the Auction house i bought a hot edge and we played and easily earned back my money for the hot edge (650) and earned some more (we had alot of fun and the energy system helped here cuz we were forced to stop playing spiral knights and played something else) next day (i was still at his house) i played with his brother and we did a solid run with our new gear (my friend told me his hat was the magic hood which i bought right away). in 2 days (i think it was) (at his house again) we met online with another friend of mine,him,and his brother and we did a snarby run until we got to clockworks terminal where he left. so it was the brother, my other friend and me so we got to snarby where my other friend died and couldn't rev so left (we didn't know at the time snarby needed to be stuned so we snarby was at full health) i used my mist tank reved us both and then we found out that snarby need to be stuned and killed snarby using elemental swords (which we learned later weren't effective) and had a crap load of crowns (in our perspective).i boungt all the stuff for t2 armour:wolver coat. hat:magic hood. sword:brandish gun:didn't have a t2 one yet (although soon after clearance of t2 i bought a autogun) bomb:didn't have a bomb

thats how i cleared t1 in what is it less than a week?

sorry for spelling mistakes or bad grammar,

~ spyash

oxxxxx{===================>

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 01:10

#41

Diabound

I recall it taking less than

I recall it taking less than a week to get to tier 2. I mean let me think, how many crowns do you get in a tier 1 run? Probably 300 crowns per level? I'm not sure but yeah, beeline it towards tier 2 and the best way is to DO ARENAS! Find them do em, that should increase the amount of crowns considerably.

Now, most 2 star weaponry cost at best 1000-1500 maybe (i got a flourish for like 900 or something)? Shadowtech alchemers were also cheap because they suck (but are good against jk so keep that in mind). Anyway, one day should net you one to two new pieces of equipment (don't be picky just get whatever at this point because it'll take a while to figure out what suits you and also a lot of the great stuff come as tier two prizes). Also to be perfectly honest, try to join a guild also because at tier 3 I don't mind taking a newb to JK and that would net you a massive 7000 something plus tokens which would should catapult you there.

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Flame on: Remove Energy System