Spiral Knights - Enduring a fatal blow: is there any sort of pattern at all to it?

Enduring a fatal blow: is there any sort of pattern at all to it?

21 replies [Last post]

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 01:28

Noomad

I've been playing this game for about half a year, and I still can't make sense of it. There are times when I'm at 1.5 pips of health and I survive an obviously fatal hit, losing only the half a pip of health. And then there are times when I have 6 or 7 pips of health and I die in a single shot.

I'm at a loss here. Is there ANY sort of way to tell if you'll live or die from an attack while having more than 1 pip of health?

PS: is it pip? I'm not sure what else it's called, and I'm pretty sure I've seen pip thrown around a bit.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 01:34

Tengu

It all has to do with your

It all has to do with your armor. If you do t have resists against the particular hit, the hit goes thru your defenses like butter.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 01:37

Noomad

But i've been in cases where

But i've been in cases where i've had none of that armor type and lived, and had a bunch of that armor type and died...

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 01:51

Maeko

Case in point, I joined a

Case in point, I joined a graveyard level wearing no shadow defense, each swipe does a massive amount of damage, except the one instance when I have 2.5 pips of hp left, I only take 1.5 pips and live.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 02:03

Lan-The-Wizard

I think that hits take out a

I think that hits take out a percentage of your hp and your armor affects those percentages.

Like 20 pips with 1 swipe doing 50%.
So 20 pips -> swipe -> 10 pip -> 5 pip -> 2.5 pip -> .5 pip -> dead

Again I could be wrong.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 03:04

Asukalan

I read somewhere here on

I read somewhere here on forum that its about some kind of rule that you cant get one hit killed or so.

When you get hit at full health and hit takes 5 pips from you, while having 1 and half pip same hit will take from you only half of pip. Its like system is giving you last chance to survive, only next hit will kill you.

Thats why rushing in with proto armor into T3 wont get you insta killed. First hit will take your whole but 1 pip health and then last one will finish you off taking the remaining one.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 05:21

Etendue

Actually, I've gotten killed

Actually, I've gotten killed with 3 health or more left in one hit. It may be my latency, but I don't think so. I recall this, because it was back when I just started tier 3. I rushed into a fight with about 3 health, thinking that I could take at least one more hit. I died.

:O ?

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 06:08

Mirmulnir

That made me remember when i

That made me remember when i was on that shooting-area-that-no-one-actually-shoots on FSC. Charging into battle with 1 pip of health (for spartaa!), leaving it with full health.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 07:45

Aubie

@Etendue

I believe what Asukalanforum is saying is if you have 100% health then you can't be killed with one hit. When you go into a fight with 3 pips (not full health) then you can get killed on your next hit.

Though you may have been posting in response to Llan, in which case I am pretty sure that is not how it works. Depending on the depth, you could go from full health to dead in less than four hits.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 07:52

Trying

I remember there was a thread

I remember there was a thread about it before and Nick commented about it. If someone wants to dig around and find it go ahead.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 08:43

#10

Xairathan

Hmm...

I know for certain that I can survive a) with 100% health and b) with 2 or 3 pips. I've been in situations where I look like I'm about to die because of a hit, and then it leaves me with a pip or half a pip of health left. I do remember the thread Trying mentioned, and I'll see if I can go dig it up :P

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 10:49

#11

Demonicsothe

Happens to me when lumbers

Happens to me when lumbers decided to go teehee and slam my face from the bottom of the screen. I'll fly, watch trailing green bars, and somehow come out alive after losing 5 bars with 1.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 10:50

#12

Noomad

I tried searching for it, but

I tried searching for it, but the odd search method on the forums pulls up every thread with any words searched for in it... Any definitive answer on this would be so appreciated! I've been doing DFV runs recently, and it's horribly annoying dying to a cursed deadnaught in one hit after just being revived with 6 or so pips of health...

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 12:11

#13

Mysticbeam

yea

its called the "last stand effect"

it was dubbed that by some player in some thread that im not gonna dig up, lolz

the game pretty much ensured u get at least 2 hits, then die, so u cant just take one tick of dmg and die instantly :)

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 15:16

#14

Noomad

But when does it come into

But when does it come into effect? Is it so many times on a certain depth? Is it just random? I tend to feel like once I go down with more than one pip once, it happens a lot more the rest of the dive. All I want to know is if it's possible to expect when it will happen so I can plan accordingly.

Basically @mysticbeam, I'm saying it's not ensured.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 20:47

#15

Noomad

/sigh

I've spent 20-30 minutes looking through the forums for a thread that nick commented on about it, but I couldn't find it. All I see are threads where people talk about it and no definitive answer is reached...

Does anyone remember enough about it to find it? I was just heating up the 3* cobalt armors in RJP and died several times with 2.5 pips or so in a single hit from jellies... What is the rule??? /crazy

Mon, 01/23/2012 - 07:28

#16

Lostillusion

Well....

It used to be that you would never die from an attack if you had more than one pip with life in it, even if it was just an extra half. Could take a big hit in T3, pick up a small heart, and take another big hit just fine.

But then a few months back it started happening where you could die with 2 pips, or 5 pips or what have you. As far as I've been able to figure out, as long as you have some extra health, there's a decent chance you won't die next hit. I haven't seen anything where someone has sat down and figured all this out again.

Short version: Nobody knows.
Not what you wanted to hear, but there it is.

V He quit begging.

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 23:21

#17

Demonicsothe

@Lostillusion

I was going to rely on that as a way to get by fsc with 4* gear. I didn't do it, not because I found fsc a tad bit more grindy than hard, but because it is unreliable.

Off topic, lostillusion, what happened to that guy who was begging for 90k cr for a glacius?

Mon, 01/23/2012 - 00:15

#18

Buckdida

If I really had to guess, it

If I really had to guess, it has to do with the damage you're taking, and the defenses you have.

The tier you're on may also come into play.

For the most part, the general rule is:
-If you have 3 pips (bars) of health, and an a fatal attack connects with you, this attack will leave you with exactly 1 pip of health.

This rule may be modified by these various things (which are actually complete guesses):

-Amount of Health: Higher levels of health (such as 5 pips, or full health, etc.) may give a higher chance of allowing the Last Stand Effect to activate.
-Armor and Helm Defense: Complete lack of defense may have a chance to disregard the Last Stand Effect due to overwhelming damage at lower amounts of health, and kill you anyway.
-Armor and Helm Defense: Likewise, "perfect" defense may have a chance to strengthen the Last Stand Effect and allow it to activate while at 2.5-1.5 pips of health, due to "underwhelming" damage (leaving you with .75-.25 pips of health, respectively, instead of 1) or a variable that is unknown to us, i.e., the Last Stand Effect is calculated with a formula somehow that factors in your armor defense.
-Dice Roll: There could be random chance involved that we have not been able to obverse. It's possible, anyway!

Anyway, that's what I got. The general rule, followed by four modifiers that could change the rule. In general, I think the Last Stand Effect revolves around the "3 pips of health" thing, combined with the amount of damage you receive from the attack. Take too much, and you're headed to the floor anyway; have perfect defense for the situation and you're more likely to survive- which makes sense.

EDIT, extra thought: Or perhaps it's something more simple, like, "If 25% of the damage would have killed you anyway, then you're dead" or something similar. Both theories could hold, but still, it goes back to "wear the correct defenses."

Mon, 01/23/2012 - 00:38

#19

Noomad

I did a run today, and

I did a run today, and started trying to pay attention to people in my party dying with more than 1 pip of health towards the end. My current hypothesis is this: When you start a level, you can last stand. You can keep last standing until you go down. Once you go down, you must pick up hearts in order to last stand again. It doesn't matter how much health the person gave you, until you pick up a heart, you wont last stand again. This probably applies to health caps as well.

I'll be testing this tomorrow. Think about it though; when you give someone heat in FSC levels or arenas, you stop last standing after he picks you up the first time...

Mon, 01/23/2012 - 04:29

#20

Twiddle

I read about it once on the

I read about it once on the forums. Someone made a guess that made sense to me:

If a fatal attack hits you then it does half damage. If you would die from the reduced damage then you die. If you would have died from the full hit but not from taking half damage, then you survive with less than a pip of health.

But that's just a guess.

- edit -

I frequently solo non-FSC T3 levels in a mishmash of 3 and 4 star gear. I have experienced the last stand effect there, and I frequently have more than 3 pips of health remaining when it happens. My guess is that there's nothing special about 3 pips of health.

Mon, 01/23/2012 - 06:35

#21

Etamalgren

My theory is that you're able

My theory is that you're able to last stand as long as
A: You have more than 1 pip of health
B: You haven't taken a hit in the past 10-15 seconds or so

EX 1. I have 10 pips of health. I get hit by a Kat for 7.5 pips, taking me to 2.5 pips. Three seconds later I get hit again, causing me to die.
EX 2. I have 10 pips. I get hit by a Kat for 7.5 pips, taking me to 2.5 pips. I survive to the next fight area, where I get hit by a Howlitzer for 7.5 pips, but Last Stand activates and leaves me with 1 pip.

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Enduring a fatal blow: is there any sort of pattern at all to it?