So I just rolled a Damage vs. Undead High UV on a Calibur. Starting out, I was planning on making a CIV, but considering that the bonus to undead is the main draw of that sword, should I just go with Levi for the added damage? Would that basically be best of both worlds, or is there some other facet of the Vanquisher that I don't know about? Or, would it pay to have a Damage vs. Undead MAX CIV? What's your opinion?
Cold Iron vs Levi
Sun, 01/22/2012 - 19:07
Sun, 01/22/2012 - 19:46
#2
in detail
If you turn this weapon into a Leviathan, then it will have damage bonus High against undead. If you turn this weapon into a CIV, then it will have damage bonus Maximum! against undead. However, the Leviathan's baseline damage is larger, and it will certainly do more damage against all monsters other than undead.
There is another consideration. A serious sworder tends to end up with sword damage bonus from armor, shield, trinkets, and/or UVs. As soon as you reach Very High sword damage bonus in this way, the innate bonus on CIV starts fading away, because it gets driven over Maximum! and hence is wasted. (The same goes for Wild Hunting Blade.)
So, in short, Leviathan is a much better long-term investment than CIV, as Maeko said.
Sun, 01/22/2012 - 20:10
#3
Yeah all this is pretty much
Yeah all this is pretty much what I assumed. But... CIV is so STYLISH. Fug it I'll go with Levi.
Sun, 01/22/2012 - 20:19
#4
They both suck. CIV moreso.
They both suck. CIV moreso. Any advantage it could possibly have against undead is greatly outclassed by any of the brandish line, or DA
Mon, 01/23/2012 - 04:21
#5
I prefer style...
I'm a big fan of how a sword looks. You wouldn't see me getting a Troika, even if it had UV Speed Maximum! (which isn't even possible). I would go for a Cold Iron Vanquisher instead just purely based on style.
DONT JUDGE MEH!
Mon, 01/23/2012 - 20:01
#6
All in all, if you have money
All in all, if you have money to spend on rolling UVs, I'd just recommend getting four weapon slots and sticking two
specialized damage swords in two of them, and other utility weapons in the others. You'd be doing more damage that way and
have a less irritating-when-used-often charge attack.
Tue, 01/24/2012 - 10:06
#7
CIV is actually better!
Not only does it look cool, but it is good against undead. If you look at the CIV's wiki page damage table, and compare it to the Leviathan's, The undead bonus launches up an extra 60-90 damage, but socks you 15-35 against normal monsters. I would take the CIV, and wouldn't care about the little penalty against the others. Better for Vanaduke runs, and isn't that what all end-gamers do when they got no shadow keys? Yes.
But the sacrifice for the CIV is a big one, you can not walk up to Kozma and get it, you gotta get it from Basil (rarely he'll have it), or buy it from the auction house (There are usually about 2-5 CIC recipe's in stock, and about 1 or 2, and sometimes none CIV's), plus they sell it for a higher price. So it is your move, wait for a FSC clearing sword, pay the price, or sacrifice the damage bonus and have the Leviathan recipe at your disposal anytime
Tue, 01/24/2012 - 10:36
#8
@Gianor
No it's not. If you
@Gianor
No it's not. If you are looking for a sword to kill undeads, an elemental sword will do much better anyway, and will benefit from DMG : max (if you reach it), contrary to CIV, which would then do less damage than Levi. For Vana run, those "end-gamers" are using Levi only for Vanaduke, which is not considered an undead, so CIV damage bonus doesn't even apply.
As it was said earlier, again, Levi for general purpose, CIV if you really care about the look.
Tue, 01/24/2012 - 23:35
#9
CIV for looks and
CIV for looks and originality.
Levi for mainstream omfgwolvers omfgowlites omfgsealedsword omfgshiverblitzvana.
You know which one I'd choose....
Yeah, neither.
WHB ftw ;O
#damnitfeelsgoodtobeahipster.
Wed, 01/25/2012 - 01:33
#10
Go for the vanquisher.
You do WAY more damage to undead with the sword's bonus alone, and with your undead UV you'll hit maximum.
Sure, you do just a tiny bit less damage than the Leviathan Blade, so what? Anyone that says the Leviathan Blade is better than the Vanquisher is just obsessed with damage. The Vanquisher has a better charge attack imo, because it can damage enemies multiple times. On the other hand, the Leviathan Blade is just one hit with knockback as it's charge.
Trust me, CIV is the way to go. You'll have a cooler sword that can devastate undead, AND a better charge attack.
Wed, 01/25/2012 - 07:24
#11
charge is important
Renpartycat does raise an important point. Both swords are mediocre in their regular attacks, but have killer charge attacks. I mean, the charge attack is really the point of these swords. And people tend to overlook that CIV's charge's lower knockback can be beneficial. It's worth noting that the knockback makes no difference on stationary targets (e.g. gun puppies), huge targets (e.g. RJP), and targets in corners.
I have already addressed the bit about the undead bonus in my post #2 above. For a sworder, the CIV's monster-specific bonus just ends up getting wasted in the long run. (Also, all of this is already addressed in my sword guide.)
Sun, 02/26/2012 - 21:48
#12
@ Fradow
Don't go off topic with elemental swords, we are talking about CIV and Levi. Nothing else.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 11:54
#13
@Bopp
"For a sworder, the CIV's monster-specific bonus just ends up getting wasted in the long run."
Well, only if you let it be wasted. Conceivably, one could choose full Vog and a shield that isn't BTS. Right?
Besides, for a sworder, any normal sword is wasted, as you've pointed out many a time. The CIV, being more specialised, is wasted *less*. (Presumably Voyevoda has other swords to use on things that aren't undead.)
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 13:23
#14
It is wasted if you do get
It is wasted if you do get max'd damage from other sources. Civ caps out on dmg vs zombies early, and suffers from a lower base. With a higher base and equivalen dmg vs zombies, levi's does more damage.
And a elemental sword with equivalent damage bonus will still do more.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 13:47
#15
still Levi unless you already have one
The only reason to have an Undead Max CIV (other then for the heck of it) that I can think of would be as a backup weapon for either a gunner or bomber on Undead maps (even here bit of a meh choice). A swordsmen will be carrying an Elemental sword which will out-damage an Undead Max CIV like crazy (especially with sword buff gear, like Vog set + BTS + 2x Elite Slash Modules for DMG Max, ASI VH).
I have considered utilizing the CIVs reduced knockback for a party friendlyer version of the Levi using that same UV Undead High for Undead Max. Thing is though, then you are left with CTR Med which is painfully slow or using a trinket slot for CTR VH which still feels slow to me or wasting 2x trinket slots for CTR Max. This is crazy talk. I am spoiled by my UV CTR High Levi (that I typically run DMG Max, CTR Max, ASI Med).
I think I would sell it and keep banging out Caliburs till you get some CTR (then make a Levi).
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 16:54
#16
CIV Verses...... Leeeeeevi!
I'd go for the CIV I mean, it does get a dock in dmg, but its barely! I have a Tempered calibur and am going to craft in into a CIC. But all in the end it's your choice.....
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 16:59
#17
Playing Styles
All Depends on your playing style! I've used CIV a lot and people have said Levi IS better STAT wise. CIV has a smaller knockback with spin and if you're good with dodging can be used as an extremely powerful tool. Levi does more damage and has a ridiculous knockback on spin also a very useful and deadly tool, however is recommended for players who want to keep space between you and the enemy. I chose the CIV cuz it looks awesome, and I know how to dodge. As a CIV user i have to say that unlike Levi users I don't have to chase an enemy and can pull off multiple spins on 1 enemy fairly quickly (mainly lumbers.), tho that really doesn't matter against bosses.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 22:22
#18
@Demonicsothe
"It is wasted if you do get max'd damage from other sources"
Yes, which happens only if you choose a loadout that does that. . . .
"Civ caps out on dmg vs zombies early, and suffers from a lower base. With a higher base and equivalen dmg vs zombies, levi's does more damage."
Yeah, but how do you get that damage bonus? Helm, armour or trinkets, right? Well, this would free up the user to use a helm and armour with different bonuses (Vog, basically, for ASI), CTR or ASI trinkets, and a non-BTS shield.
I'm not saying CIV is superior. I'm saying that which one to choose depends on the user's preference in other gear. Some loadouts will waste damage; other loadouts won't.
"And a elemental sword with equivalent damage bonus will still do more."
Certainly, but this is also a reason for not using the Cali line in the first place. Using either sword is already sub-optimal; using CIV for Undead (and using a different sword for all other things) is *less* sub-optimal (provided no wastage occurs).
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 22:40
#19
Technically, having vh damage
Technically, having vh damage from trink/skolv will waste one point of civ's undead high. I do agree with what you are saying, just that I believe, in terms of damage, levi is still better everywhere else, enough to warrant a small decrease in damage vs undead.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 23:53
#20
CIV < DA
CIV < DA
Tue, 02/28/2012 - 11:12
#21
I hear ya.
I guess it really depends on what the OP wants out of it. A sword to use everywhere (albeit less effectively than specialised swords), or a sword to pwn undead with (again, less effectively than specialised swords)? Heh.
Tue, 02/28/2012 - 11:34
#22
Wow, Necro much
I prefer CIV for style points, and less knockback on charge attack. I can live with the slight damage penalty over the Levi because of those two things. I think I'll make another one, with a nice UV on it. Maybe something family based, like fiend vh.
Tue, 02/28/2012 - 12:44
#23
you have two weapon slots,
you have two weapon slots, you don't really need "a sword to use everywhere", just use two different damage types.
Tue, 02/28/2012 - 13:40
#24
@Batabii
We all know this already. That argument, which is perfectly valid, is an argument against the Calibur line, period. This thread is about whether an Undead High Cali would be most effective as a CIV or as a Levi; its basic assumption is that for whatever reason, the player is going to be using one of the two 5* Calis. And yes, neither of those are *really* effective weapons to begin with--so what?
Tue, 02/28/2012 - 15:11
#25
Point taken, but still, I
Point taken, but still, I think this thread is pretty moot.
Tue, 02/28/2012 - 16:58
#26
It's not moot for someone
It's not moot for someone like myself that is just starting out.
I don't know if you've noticed, but it can be a big Pain in the A$$ as a new player to get recipes, because people buy them to sell them for more than I can afford on the AH. Then multiply that PITA by all of teirs that you will be hunting for a recipe for. The calibur line is at least available, even if it underperforms compared to other weapons.
Plus it's one of the better looking swords in the game, IMO.
Tue, 02/28/2012 - 17:16
#27
Actually, if you are going be
Actually, if you are going be recipe availability, the levi line is considerably cheaper and faster than the cold iron line. With the new mission update, you can get every recipe for levi up to the 4* for free, and buy the 5* leviathan recipe for base vendor price of 25k at Kozma.
Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:58
#28
Sup y'all I'm a 3 slot(most
Sup y'all I'm a 3 slot(most of the time) bomber, and I'm looking for a good utility sword to compliment my 2 bombs, I was thinking about getting a levi, but I'm a big fan of the Cold Iron's charge attack, which seems to be more effective compared to the Levi's charge attack. Suggestions are appreciated. tnx
Tue, 02/28/2012 - 20:19
#29
The charge is the same, minus
The charge is the same, minus the damage and knockback. Levi has a huge knockback, civ comparatively smaller. It still has a knockback, but the strength of it, I have no idea.
Thu, 03/01/2012 - 00:49
#30
If you're just starting out,
If you're just starting out, you wouldn't need 5* items anyway, and either way both swords are a waste of CE. By the time you earn enough money and CE to craft them, you could easily collect good recipes.
The Levi would then have a greater bonus than the CIV outdamaging it in the only area, the CIV was statistically superior. The Levi Benefits more overall.
Just keep in mind, Levi for damage, CIV for style.