Spiral Knights - Firestorm loadout

Firestorm loadout

47 replies [Last post]

Sun, 01/22/2012 - 23:58

Veacon

Hi guys, I've been planning for a late game loadout focusing purely on FSC and I'm not sure what to think about this. I have the 4* versions of most of these already and I'm still considering what I should upgrade.

Vanaduke is a secondary consideration; I'm most likely going to eat a few too many maces to the face due to bad lag. This is intended for a solo FSC run but not vana itself/himself.

Armour:
Fallen Hat
Vog armour
Barb shield (For damage bonus), am considering VPS

Weapons:
DA
Hail driver
Blight needle

Weapons of secondary importance:
Dark thorn blade

Assorted trinkets, most likely CTR sword.

From what I can gather, this set gives me good shadow and elemental and normal defense, which is more or less everything inside FSC.
Crown of the Fallen gives me ASI for both my sword and gun, and vog augments ASI for DA, which is quite important. Hail driver is just good for flash freezing everything while I run off to a corner like a sissy as defrosting kicks in.

Both CotF and Vog give fire resistance, which is all-important in 'Fire'storm citadel. I'm not going to get cursed.. right?

Anyway I'd like to know what the community thinks of this set! Thanks!

PS I have a bomber friend who runs shivermist buster. What else should he take into FSC?

Mon, 01/23/2012 - 06:01

Bopp

resposne

Fallen and Vog Cub are both classic armors for FSC. The only drawback to Fallen is the damage penalty against fiends, which include trojans. No, you will not get cursed. The fire resistance on these is not an afterthought, I hope; it's really important. You don't have any shadow armor, so you'll have to be careful around zombies, but this is not very difficult, especially since the recent update weakened them. Barbarous Thorn Shield is a bold statement that you're more into offense than defense. Better defense would come from Grey Owlite or Volcanic Plate Shield (or Crest of Almire).

Divine Avenger and Plague Needle are classic weapons for FSC. The latter is usually used in conjunction with a Shivermist Buster.

Why do you want Hail Driver? To attack zombies? There are two kinds of zombie fights in FSC: crowded and spacious. In crowded fights, you're going to be using your DA to get the zombies off you and dead. In spacious fights, you could use a gun, but why not just use your DA to deliver more damage? So, while there is nothing wrong with bringing Hail Driver, I don't see a strong reason for it.

Some people bring a Barbarous Thorn Blade into FSC, using it on trojans and on Vanaduke's phase 1. (You can also use it on the other phases, if you destroy fireballs with water). It's not a bad idea. But if you're charging Plague Needle, it might be redundant.

There are many ways to do FSC and Vanaduke, but the standard way requires just this: One person has Blitz Needle or Plague Needle. Another person has Shivermist Buster. Everybody in the party has an elemental sword. That's it.

Mon, 01/23/2012 - 06:25

The-Rawrcake

For rocket puppy room he has

For rocket puppy room he has the gun I think / hitting the secret ghost block... but that could probably be done with a vial / DA charge

Mon, 01/23/2012 - 06:52

Bopp

yes, vial or DA

Yes, there's always an extra vial lying around, that you can use to hit the hidden blue block at the end of depth 27. I don't remember whether DA can hit it. In any event, his Plague Needle can certainly hit it.

People usually shock the rocket puppy in depth 25. Does freezing it do any good? Doesn't the rocket find its way to you anyway? In any event, one can just skip the rocket puppy room, if one doesn't have good equipment or tricks for it.

Mon, 01/23/2012 - 06:55

Fradow

Why get a Blight Needle ? If

Why get a Blight Needle ?

If you are solo, the poison is not worth the drop in damage, though I have to admit I don't know if you can OS a trojan with its charge. You can for sure do that with a Blitz Needle.
But even then, are you already able to use a Needle in a room with 2 trojans ? If you are not, you may consider to use a thorn blade instead. It'll benefit from your swords bonus and trojans will still die fast, and it's way more safe. The main selling point of Needles is Vanaduke, because they shorten the fight a lot while being usable in pick-up (contrary to a full-swords strategy).

Mon, 01/23/2012 - 07:11

Bopp

well that's true

It's true that a Blitz Needle is usually preferable to a Plague Needle (unless there are already many Blitzes in the party). On the other hand, Veacon already has the 4-star version I think. Back on the first hand, it's never too late to switch to another alchemy line, because most of the cost of a 5-star item lies in the final upgrade. Returning now to the second hand, isn't it a little sad when all players have the same items?

I did miss the part about doing FSC but not Vanaduke. If you're not doing Vanaduke, then you don't need a gun at all (except perhaps for that rocket puppy). Shivermist Buster would make your solo FSC life much easier.

Mon, 01/23/2012 - 07:49

Veacon

Fallen

I was under the impression that everything in FSC was vog, vog and more vog, since skeletons were unlikely to hit you before the patch and now after the patch even less so, hence shadow defense isn't too important.

"You don't have any shadow armor, so you'll have to be careful around zombies, but this is not very difficult, especially since the recent update weakened them. "
Doesn't fallen give shadow defense?

I have never been to FSC before, despite having unlocked t3 access ages ago. I'm not too sure what the pre-vana levels are like and from what I can gather from youtube videos its mostly Left 4 Dead. Of course, that could just be the interesting parts.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I do think all gun puppies only shoot when you are in their line of sight. Freezing one should allow you to handle other mobs (if there are any) as long as you stay out of that line.

But anyway, thanks for the comments! I'll re-rethink about that volcanic plate soon.

Mon, 01/23/2012 - 12:43

Nicoya-Kitty

The rocket puppy room is

The rocket puppy room is easiest to do when you don't wake the puppy at all, or when you kill it fast before it can shoot any rockets. The former is easy to do by doing the room backwards, breaking the ghost blocks by shocking zombies; and the latter is easy to do by spamming the puppy with polaris shots.

I've got a full solo playthrough of FSC on my youtube channel, including both sides of D26; and three vana fights (one failed solo, one no-death solo, and one party).

Mon, 01/23/2012 - 12:59

Bopp

my bad

Veacon, I'm not sure what I was thinking, when I said that you don't have any shadow. (I even have Armor of the Fallen.) Yes, the shadow protection on Fallen is more than adequate for FSC. Yes, Vog Cub is certainly more popular.

I've never tried Hail Driver on the rocket puppy. I would think that it would awake when attacked, and start launching rockets. But I could be wrong. Maybe someone will answer better. Nicoya-Kitty is right about that room, but I've never seen that going-clockwise tactic done without Polaris.

As far as FSC itself goes, the hardest fights are probably the last three fights: Vanaduke, last fight of Depth 27, second-to-last fight of Depth 27. If you've been playing on Tier 3 for a while, you should find the rest pretty easy. (And you might find those fights easy too; how would I know?) If you play with an experienced party, then it all goes by too quickly; I recommend that you solo it several times, to learn it.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 05:58

Frederick-Sn

You can go clockwise with

You can go clockwise with alchemer bounces, too. It'll be slower with anything but the shock alchemer, though, since there'll usually be a slag in front of the ghost block, and you'll have to kill it before you can trigger the block.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 07:36

#10

Rangerwillx

Once you shoot the rocket puppy with anything, it's awake. Even a catalyzer charge shot will wake it up.
Freeze, generally is outclassed to shock, and shock is outclassed to pure damage, aka Prisma/Nova driver.

Fire is probably third best for the normal clockworks, second to shock and first to Prisma/Nova again.

I agree with the post above me, you can also do the room clockwise with a alchemer.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 08:10

#11

Demonicsothe

But then you risk hitting the

But then you risk hitting the puppy with a ricochet.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 09:49

#12

Carthiah

My loadout: Vog Cub set Crest

My loadout:
Vog Cub set
Crest of Almire / Barbarous Thorn Shield (I usually bring BTS - this will depend on skill)
Divine Avenger - ASI medium (not required)
Polaris
Leviathan Blade - ASI medium (not required)
Blitz Needle (your plague needle is a good substitute)
Elite Trueshot mod
Elite Slash mod

Why?
I've never found the zombies' attacks terribly damaging, and even with my snarbolax gear on, i don't seem to NOTICE a difference (I know there is one.)
Fire, on the other hand, is vastly reduced by the Vog armor, and I personally think this helps more. Also, the vog helps by granting an attack speed boost, making my combat more fluid and defensible.

Crest of Almire can stand up to almost anything in here with no problems. If you don't ever have this shield in the yellow/orange area, consider BTS instead - the extra damage is nice if you never break your shield anyway.

I use divine avenger for zombies, turrets and slag guards. When fighting the few jellies (especially oilers - they resist everything except normal when on fire), wolvers, and trojans in melee, I use Leviathan Blade. Levi outdamages BTB against trojans when using levi for the charge - i charge it up, have the trojan charge, and hit them from behind. I can usually only get one combo with BTB off like this, and one levi charge outdamages the BTB combo.
Polaris is nice for zombies, the rocket puppy room, and for soloing duke. Blitz needle is very efficient when taking down lone trojans, and also sees use when I want to hit zombies from afar without knockback. you could use it for duke too, given enough experience. This could be substituted for Shivermist, depending on playstyle.

I've killed duke more times than I can count, and this seems to be my optimal setup. There could be others which are just as good, but I haven't found any yet.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 10:28

#13

Velcro

Because people seem to forget

Because people seem to forget this tactic with the puppy room.

If you merely aggro it with anything, making sure you're northernly, then back out of the room to about the doors of the room to the left.

Now approach the puppy room while staying as close as possible to the south wall, then he won't see you if you didn't break the blocks. Proceed to kill room without puppy, success.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 10:35

#14

Demonicsothe

Blocks have no effect on

Blocks have no effect on puppy sights, afaik. I break all the blocks going backward with the polaris tactic. One time I attempted the bottom zombies, and walked in front of the unbroken blocks. Rockets start flying.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 12:28

#15

Velcro

All I know is that if the

All I know is that if the blocks are destroyed then hugging the south wall has failed, and the puppy has seen me. With the blocks, I get by everytime without fail.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 12:38

#16

Demonicsothe

I hug the corner by the ghost

I hug the corner by the ghost block and the wall, while zombies breath flames on my shield. If I get anywhere close to those 3hit blocks on the bottom, the puppy sees me.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 13:03

#17

Velcro

If you aggro it and drawn

If you aggro it and drawn it's attention as close to north as possible as you get out of range, it'll be facing northernly enough to not see you when you come along the south wall.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 13:09

#18

Demonicsothe

How do you clear the top room

How do you clear the top room then? Not that you have to. Do you draw aggro back down south and hook shots on the ghost block?

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 13:18

#19

Velcro

Just an image for

Just an image for help

---------North

West---Puppy-----East

---------South

1. Break blue block at Southwest wall, walk in slightly and spawn zombies then go back into West portion before wall respawns. Proceed to kill zombies in West and South components without breaking non-respawning blocks AND making sure not to aggro the puppy. After zombies are dead then position self near the Northwest wall and aggro the puppy. Proceed to run out of the room while staying as northernly as possible, generally running to the doors of the room to the west.

2. After puppy loses aggro, proceed to approach puppy room while staying against the south wall, preferably with shield up for slow movement. Continue to stay as far southwest as possible of the puppy while walking to the southwest blue block. Break the block and walk through the wall. The puppy should still be facing towards the west door at this point. Now you can proceed into the east and north portions and kill those skeletons, thus opening the faerie. Grab the faerie, break the blue block to the exit and leave.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 13:41

#20

Demonicsothe

Sounds like it takes

Sounds like it takes awhile... I'll stick to pulsar shocks. But it seems viable for gunless players.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 14:03

#21

Mohandar

Here is an offensive

Here is an offensive all-purpose loadout for FSC:
Volcanic Demo Helm, Vog Cub Coat, Barbarous Thorn Shield
Voltedge/Glacius, Leviathan/Polaris, Blitz Needle, Shivermist
Sword Focus, Sword/Gun Damage modules.
Depending on which UVs you have, your module loadout will be different. The goal is to achieve Very High on bomb and sword CTR, with any remaining leeway devoted to sword or gun damage, your choice. Choosing Polaris allows you to kill wheels and do the rocket puppy room with ease; choosing Leviathan (Dread Venom Striker is a better alternative actually) gives you better damage during phase 1, 2 and 4 of the boss fight. The strategy with this setup is to spam brandish charges (they are minimally disruptive, having only low knockback) and fill whichever role is needed in any situation.

If you know you won't be needed for a particular role, it's easy enough to retool this loadout to maximize damage on either sword or gun.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 05:38

#22

Veacon

Thanks

For all the comments! Very interesting, but I still have no idea what the rocket puppy room looks like. (HAHAHA)

From what I can gather it seems like a polaris will make my life much easier, and I am considering doing IMF a bit to get said polaris before really going down to FSC.

@Nicoya-Kitty: Can you post a link to your youtube channel? Thanks!

As for now my main problem is the terrible ping here in SE Asia, which is becoming worse by the day. I timed myself and I believe my ping is close to 2 seconds, which makes any adventuring close to impossible. When it was better (not a lot) I realised that my best way of dodging gun puppy bullets was to actually run into them, because the lag was so bad that it was actually way ahead of where it looked like at that time. Low ping is something I hope for all the time.
But this means I need the most failsafe option to run FSC (solo and party) in case I suddenly see my teammates walking off the map and then 2 minutes later I'm on the floor with little embers lying around me. If OOO decides to open an Asian server, which shouldn't be too impossible because SEGA is based in Japan anyway, then I can try more unconventional options.

Thanks once again!

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 07:32

#23

Bopp

not really

"From what I can gather it seems like a polaris will make my life much easier"

Polaris makes your life easier in the infamous rocket puppy room. But this is one room of eight in depth 25, and you need to complete only six rooms (or even fewer if you exploit a bug), so you don't need to do the rocket puppy room at all. I've never used a Polaris in FSC. It really, really isn't necessary.

The thing about FSC is that you just have to learn it. The first time you do FSC, stuff is coming at you, and you don't know how much you need to shield, or where the monsters are going to appear. It can be confusing and scary. But once you've done FSC a few times, you know all of this stuff, and it becomes much easier. And Polaris won't really ease this learning process, in my opinion.

So don't wait around for Polaris. Just start trying FSC, preferably solo or with other inexperienced people.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 09:18

#24

Demonicsothe

Go solo. The first fsc depth

Go solo. The first fsc depth is relatively easy. Throw up your shield, walk aroud fire, and pay attention to the wheels coming down. Kill zombies, tank hits on a shield, dodge hits. Learn to deal with trojans solo. Stand still for a few seconds to bait a smash. But you should move just before he raises his word. A dodged hit is better than trying to rush damage on it.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 11:15

#25

Nicoya-Kitty

@Veacon

@Veacon http://www.youtube.com/user/nicoyakitty is my channel. This is a link to my FSC video run: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4A3B2E5DBC57E434

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 18:35

#26

Elduderinoo

Why is everyone telling him

Why is everyone telling him to solo fsc? This will not give him experience to use in a party. It will get him killed many times. Just go with a group (hopefully one that is experienced in fsc) and they will be able to show u spawn control as well as spawning locations. That and some tricks with totems and the secret room in d27.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 19:16

#27

Bopp

because with a group you can't even see what's happening

There are parts of FSC, where the whole team fights together. In these parts, an inexperienced player will probably miss a lot of what's happening, but will also learn a lot from his teammates.

But in other parts of FSC, the team splits up, and the inexperienced player has no idea what's being done for him. For example, experienced people race ahead to destroy the wheels on Depths 24 and 27. On depth 25, the experienced people do 6 of the 8 rooms, or maybe 7, or maybe even 8. Meanwhile, they're using the glitch to get the water and open the treasure. You see a tiny fraction of what's happening.

I do not advise learning Vanaduke solo. Attempt that in a decent party, so that you have some hope of surviving.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 19:48

#28

Elduderinoo

Solo.

Not matter what, going into fsc solo when you have never fought there before is bad advice.

The only positive aspect of going solo is that you wont mess up an experienced groups run (if you do mess up at all). But that would mean that you care more about other player's run's going smoothly then running fsc successfully yourself, which I hope is not the case for anyone.

If he is solo then he might not see the wheels destroyed in Depth 24. But he wont know to hug the wall, or that you can only destroy them from a certain angle. That and at the end of Depth 24 you must deal with fire puppies and 2 Trojans, and unless you have solo'd Trojans before you might not know all the tricks.

Even if the other group members complete the other rooms in Charred Court, I would highly doubt that Veacon is building this gear to run fsc once, so he will get to see them all eventually. It took almost 4 runs for me to fight in each room of the Charred Court. If it is purely the experience of fsc he is looking for, then he can concentrate on a different room each run.

Vana solo? Even for an experienced player with optimal gear it can still be a losing fight without all the right strategy.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 20:11

#29

Orangeo

VPS is the way to go. It can

VPS is the way to go. It can withstand allot of damage from vannaduke himself.
I personaly use Volcanic demo/ vog coat.
Polaris is also a good call. Shivermist helps a ton. DA rocks. If your using fallen, you'll want a peircing blade (deals neuteral damage with full fallen). If you solo, you'll want at least 3 weapons. If you wanna use 2, I'd go with DA and Polaris. Kinda a grunt tactic but it helps your team. I use CIV (for the charge) and shiver (let's CIV hit 3 times with charge on multipule enemies).

"I timed myself and I believe my ping is close to 2 seconds, which makes any adventuring close to impossible. "
Jesus, that' like 2000 ping right? I cant play quake with over 200 tops. Personaly used to 80 plus or minus 20.

"Stand still for a few seconds to bait a smash. But you should move just before he raises his word. A dodged hit is better than trying to rush damage on it."
Not the only way. If you run in circles around it it will use the attack buff, where you can walk behind and use a sword to make it flinch, canceling the attack buff. At a range you can get them to attack buff instead of charge if you step pack and fourth in an arc as opposed to a full circle. But going under the arm as it swings is a useful skill as well. Plus it looks cool.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 21:14

#30

Demonicsothe

@Orangeo: Baiting a hit may

@Orangeo: Baiting a hit may be more dangerous than attacking during a buff, but in reality is not that much more. Besides, you can chain tons of hits during a trojan smash. Using FF, charge for 3, and follow up with 2 more, if you can aim. BTB, I use the first two attacks, to be able to fit 4 in a strike, and then another full combo if he decides to fart.

@Elduderinoo: Not a full party. Just one other guy. And once he is taught fsc trinks 1-3 times through, he should go solo. Don't expect to be babysat by serious groups, and don't drag them down. And practice is the way to solve that. If he just sits at the bottom, waiting for someone to clear wheels, how is he going to learn to navigate the tiles? This is all assuming the group is okay with you tagging along. Many times I've been kicked, because I don't have shiver, or blitz, or just to make room for other better players.

Could just be my style of playing, but really. I went solo after two runs with a friend. Had to learn sometime, and I decided to not wait for full 5* set to do it. Went in, died in ashen armory, and learned that you can push trojans with gunshots.

But on the vana thing... you're right. It is ridiculous for players who hasn't learned the tricks of each phase.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 21:33

#31

Traevelliath

Polaris!

I have brought a Polaris to all but two or three of my Vana runs, where I brought a Nova Driver instead. It took me those few runs to realize that I use the Polaris for AOE and knockback, not just damage. There are numerous instances where Polaris spam is effective, viable, and people who get mad at you for doing it.

I suggest doing your first FSC run with some friends to help point out the In's and Out's of FSC. Most of the time they can point out places that make great Pulsar spamming areas. Just remember that the Pulsar can be irritating, and should not be used as a primary weapon (especially when there are few targets that your allies are already engaged with). Use it as a first line of defense, but when Zombies start hopping past those expanded shots, swap to other weapons.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 21:43

#32

Elduderinoo

"And once he is taught fsc... he should go solo"-
-Exactly.

"If he just sits at the bottom, waiting for someone to clear wheels, how is he going to learn to navigate the tiles?"
-I think he should go with a group, not sit around in a group and let them do the work.

Truthfully, there is no plus side to going solo while learning fsc.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 21:52

#33

Demonicsothe

I wanted to learn, and I

I wanted to learn, and I don't need some impatient player rushing me. I want to see how the puzzles work, how to efficiently get past them. How was I supposed to learn each room if there is some guy that can do it better, faster, and safer than me? That is no challenge, and how do you learn without challenge? How does one deal with JK spins, the un-telegraphed ones, if he is never the target of aggro?

Yea, he should, but most people who can navigate tiles rush through it, timing the wheels and hitboxes in a way that new players will be hesitant to try. And many of such actions need to be timed carefully, not followed behind. Usually a wheel will peg you.

Best way to learn fsc? Teach someone else. I play it with a friend once a day, so we can both know the nuances of each room.

There's no plus side to going in a party, even if that party was made for you to learn. That whole mindset of spending ce to revive, because there is no one to help you, is a great motivator to not be hit.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 07:11

#34

Elduderinoo

"Best way to learn fsc? Teach someone..."
-Again, teaching someone is the right way, not solo.

"How was I supposed to learn each room if there is some guy that can do it better, faster, and safer than me?"
-Because you never run fsc just once, he will get many chances to try the other rooms. :P

"There's no plus side to going in a party, even if that party was made for you to learn."
-And here you go saying the opposite now... You just said the best way is to learn from someone else? Besides that you yourself play with in a party.

"That whole mindset of spending ce to revive, because there is no one to help you, is a great motivator to not be hit."
-It is not a motivator when you know he will die and waste the ce. We are talking about his FIRST fsc run ever here.

You are contradicting yourself. So learn from another player(s)? 2 knights is still a group/party.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 08:42

#35

Demonicsothe

Teaching someone is not being

Teaching someone is not being taught in a group. I'm against being babysat/carried without contributing.

Sure, he'll get multiple chances to try each room. Over how long a period? 4 runs for you. Rather low, as there are many rooms in charred court. Not impossible, just hard for a first time fsc player. Running it solo lets you learn all the rooms in one go, and another run lets you practice.

That whole plus side thing is connected to the bottom point. Don't pick my words apart, in no way did I say having no plus side in solo mean definate bonuses in a party.

It is a motivator. Would you like your teachers to tell you that turning in late work at anytime lets you pass the class? Thats no incentive to work. Same thing with a job. Boss says he'll pay you as long as you show up. Is that motivation to work? We are assuming he'll do more fsc runs after the first, and that he doesn't have to energy revive.

Looking back at my previous post up there, I did say learn the basics from a friend a few times. Then go solo to really know them.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 09:25

#36

Elduderinoo

Ok. So we agree you should

Ok. So we agree you should learn in a group not solo.

My entire point is that his very first venture to fsc should not be solo. We all can agree on that.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 09:44

#37

Veacon

Solo

HMMM a group who will be accepting of mistakes and epic lag should be rather hard to find. I'll try my luck after getting my fallen crown first, so I don't suffer the fire vulnerability of seraphic helm.
@Nicoya-Kitty Your videos have been very useful even though I've only been watching snippets of them. You seem to favorite voltedge's charge attack though, not sure why. (I could have missed it out in your dialogue but again I've only skimmed through them) Same goes for vial usage.

A couple of questions for the rest of the experienced vana killers:
Can trojans be set on fire?
How often do you die when going solo?
Do all you guys have 4 bars of ping? (Nicoya-Kitty I am so jealous)

Thanks!

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 09:54

#38

Fradow

@Veacon : "Can trojans be set

@Veacon :
"Can trojans be set on fire?"
Yes, but that's not super effective. For trojans you need massive single target damage

"How often do you die when going solo?"
Depends of how much skilled/trained you are. Some people can do it with 0 death.

"Do all you guys have 4 bars of ping?"
No, I am European and often play on American servers (because americans friends) so I generally have 2 bars of ping (in concrete term, about 200/300ms, which is perfectly fine to play)

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 09:56

#39

Nordlead

Yes, trojans can be set on

Yes, trojans can be set on fire, and I do it often with my combuster. It doesn't seem to be worth it at all though.

Typically only during the last fight before vanaduke. Since I can't solo vana, that is my cue to return to haven :-D

Yes, I have 4 bars of ping.

As for finding a group, I had no problem finding a random group with a helpful memeber. The guy I went with told me what was coming up ahead and we had no problem. I followed him around the charred court and cleared 3-4 rooms with him since we had a 3rd party member who cleared the other rooms. If you join my group randomly, then I'll help you out no problem.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 10:24

#40

Bopp

I do not agree, but I also don't care much

"Ok. So we agree you should learn in a group not solo. My entire point is that his very first venture to fsc should not be solo. We all can agree on that."

No, I do not really agree with this. I have not put forth any slam-dunk argument, but neither have you, in my opinion. But it doesn't really matter. The difference between the two viewpoints amounts to a few dozen energy wasted either way (by reviving himself, or by going through without really learning).

Perhaps we can all agree that the poster should start trying FSC, rather than waiting around for some equipment that doesn't matter. That was the original point.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 15:04

#41

Elduderinoo

I do care that you are giving bad advice.

"The difference between the two viewpoints amounts to a few dozen energy wasted either way (by reviving himself, or by going through without really learning)."
-More like the difference is learning with a group, or learning by wasting ce. This is contradictory to the OP's post, he wants to upgrade his equipment, not waste ce on revives.

You are going to honestly tell me, that based on Veacon's gear, your best advice is that he solo fsc for his very first time there?
I can't agree with that. You are basically telling him to throw his ce away, and he might learn a little at the same time.

I know people with optimal gear that can't solo fsc, let alone someone with no prior experience.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 15:53

#42

Bopp

compromise

How about this for a compromise:

* He watches a YouTube video of Depths 24, 25, and 26. Then he tries them solo. I honestly don't think that this is unreasonable. Most of the "tricks" that people have for FSC are completely unnecessary. For example, he doesn't have to walk up the left-hand side of Depth 24 and kill the wheels before the monsters. He can walk up anywhere he wants, and retreat to the starting place whenever monsters spawn. It's slow, but each time he'll learn and get faster, and he'll discover his own "tricks".

* Depth 27 is harder, so he's going to die, particularly in the last fight. So you may be right, that it would be too frustrating solo. Perhaps I'm overestimating the average player here. I don't play many video games, so I tend to assume that people are better than me at learning them quickly.

* As far as Depth 28 is concerned, I have always said that the novice should not attempt that solo, and Veacon is not interested in it immediately anyway.

There is a secondary goal that I'm trying to achieve here. A player can experience FSC for the first time only once. If it's all sanitized for him, then he misses out on some thrill of discovery. (I feel the same way about Shadow Lairs. If a Shadow Lair didn't cost so much money, then I would try to go in with minimal knowledge, so that the thrill wouldn't be ruined. But, since it does cost a lot, I skim a YouTube video.)

Veacon, if you're still reading this thread at all, then try FSC in a group or solo, whatever seems best to you. If your reviving cost gets high, then just return to Haven. The worst-case scenario is that you waste one day of play time. I don't consider that a disaster.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 16:25

#43

Bopp

assumptions, recommendations

As a footnote, let me add some assumptions that I've just realized:
* I'm assuming that the novice is competent at playing on Stratum 6 in general --- plays carefully, rarely takes damage, etc.
* I'm assuming that the novice knows the trojan AI well enough to be able to beat one solo.
* I'm assuming that Veacon will be using the 5-star verisons of the equipment he listed.

Also, let me add a couple of pointers, to make it go more smoothly:
* You can pass through energy barriers, but monsters cannot (except when bugs happen). Use this to your advantage.
* In the northeast corner of depth 25 is the infamous rocket puppy room. Skip it.

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 17:52

#44

Lightyourfire

Easy Alternative

I agree that this setup is good for FSC, but all of these might be to hard for people to get.

What I use is simple and relatively easy to get and it works perfectly fine for FSC, as long as you don't fight Vanaduke himself
(UV's aren't necessary, but at times I've noticed they've given me the edge to overcome an unexpected mess up)

Dragon Scale Helm UV Shadow Defense Low
Vog Cub Coat UV Stun Resist Low
Crest of Almire
Final Flourish UV Undead Low
Polaris UV Undead Low
Penta-Heart Pendant*
Elite Quickstrike Module*

I know that now you're probably thinking "Why isn't there anything with a good amount of shadow defense?", and I'll tell you. You Won't Need It!

With the weapon choices I made and the ASI I have from these, I barely even get hit. Since the Final Flourish is already one of the fastest swords in the game, adding ASI to it makes it so the speed you attack at is too fast to be countered. I think of it this way, the faster you can hit, the faster you can get away, and the faster you can get away, the less damage you take.(And we all know what the less damage you take would mean :D)

I prefer the Polaris over the Blitz Needle series because of the time of the attack. With the Blitz Needle, once you press whatever key or "click" as I call it on a mouse, you can't move or turn until you've fired all , which in the middle of battle, you could easily be killed in that amount of time. With the Polaris, you could move around all you want in between shots. Also, the chance of causing shock is very useful, and in some cases does nearly as well as freezing. Another important thing is, THE TRICKS!! They may have taken out many of the tricks with using the Divine Avenger's charge attack, but all Polaris bugs still remain, such as breaking the spike wheel rollers in the middle of Depth 24 instead of dealing with the gate buttons, and opening up the blocks in reverse order in Depth 25 in the top right corner room. The only downside I have about the Polaris is that the charge attack is terrible. It's practically a normal attack except it does about 1.5x the damage.

By now you're probably thinking "OMG WHEN WILL THIS COMMENT END!?"

Its ending now, besides the footnote below that relates to the trinket choice I had. I hope that if you try this setup, it works just as well for you as it does for me. :D

*These are not necessary, but they do help*

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 19:45

#45

Veacon

Reading this

Don't worry, I have been following most of what you guys are saying.
Truth be told, I won't be going FSC any time soon because I still need to level my seraphic helm and boost it to crown of the fallen, and that's where the important attributes come in.

I think I forgot to mention this in my original post but the reason why I picked the cryotech alchemer over all the other alchemers is because I'm an ice guy I have to wait for defrosting for additional damage as well as hoping that my ping goes back to 200-300ms; my service provider here is notorious for lagspikes, not just limited to spiral knights.

But I see that shock is a generally preferred status to have on monsters, so I'm curious as to whether I should change to storm driver or polaris, as opposed to my cryo driver now.

I am reasonably adept at soloing close to anything besides devils, because that's when I fight ping more than I fight devils. I'm an f2p player, so already getting to 5* is going to be hard on my money. Trojans are not an issue, but I usually wait for them to charge me then I attack from behind. This is a ping issue, and its not of a player skill issue. Some things are just limited because of ping. I'm also rather stringent with my CE, so if I have to use CE to revive I'd usually pass and go back to haven.

Another question: There seem to be heart generators in smouldering steps. Its perfectly possible to freeze zombies and just stand on the generators for health, right?

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 20:42

#46

Demonicsothe

Yes, but that won't work well

Yes, but that won't work well with a cryotech. The ricochet unfreezes, assuming you freeze on the first hit. If you really need to stand on those heart pads, better bring a shiver. Anything smaller, and the zombies would be too close for comfort. There is also the problem of freezing zombies that are facing the heart pads, you can't go back on it for obvious reasons. And they heal really slow for low amounts. You are better off killing the zombies for heart drops, than to sit and wait.

Like Bopp said, watch the videos. Nicoya-Kitty's youtube channel has nice fsc runs recorded.

I still believe that when a person is trying to solo fsc with a no revive mindset, they will try to get as far as they can without dying. Thus, playing safer, and learning how to deal with each room. But that may not apply to everyone.

Sat, 01/28/2012 - 10:21

#47

Bopp

some responses

Veacon, those heart generators are too slow to keep you healed while keeping the zombies frozen, as Demonicsothe said. But the truth is that whenever a zombie gets near you, you just wallop them with the Divine Avenger. In fact, you could do all of Depths 24, 25, 26 with just a Divine Avenger (except the rocket puppy). The guns are there to make you feel more secure, and to let you kill trojans a little faster.

I have Hail Driver, and I've always been disappointed with its tendency to unfreeze itself (and its low freeze rate to begin with), but you may be more skilled with it than I am.

As far as reviving goes, I too treat energy as precious. But one can be "penny wise and pound foolish" about it. If your goal is to learn Depth 26, and you die there, then do you (A) return to Haven and mount another expedition to Depth 26, or (B) revive yourself and keep going? At least for the first couple of revivals, option (B) is cheaper, right? (Of course, Elduderinoo favors the even-cheaper (C) have a teammate revive you. :)

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