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Give most guns ASI instead of CTR as they heat up.

24 replies [Last post]
Tue, 01/24/2012 - 08:04
Metagenic's picture
Metagenic

When you heat up any weapon, it gains a gradual charge time reduction at levels 5 and 10. However, this is another place where gunners essentially get left behind - the charge attacks on most guns are unnecessary or just terrible. However, they're ranged weapons, so they could use an attack speed increase to let gunners have a higher dps in combat. Here are my opinions:

- Autoguns: These guns already have a high fire rate, and the fully heated Blitz Needle's charge attack can oneshot everything that isn't resistant to piercing damage. Leave these guns alone.

- Catalyzers: The real point of these guns is charging and detonating, and a charge time reduction would further facilitate this. Leave these guns alone.

- Alchemers: These guns are all about ricochet dps; while the charged shots aren't bad, they're unnecessary and you'd have a higher dps if you just kited while firing the normal shots. However, these guns only have two shots in their clip. ASI instead of CTR.

- Pulsars: Their charged shot is essentially an expanded bullet with more damage. It's unnecessary, because the normal bullets already expand and the gun has 3 shots in the clip. A higher fire rate would help destroy turrets faster though. ASI instead of CTR.

- Magnuses: Ok, their charge attack is terrible. It's lackluster AND the recoil knocks the knight on his ass for a second, limiting the player's mobility while failing to dish out any effective damage. Their normal shots have high recoil and limited mobility already, and an ASI would help the wielder recover faster. ASI instead of CTR.

- Antiguas: Their charge attack sucks, because the knight has to struggle to fire the clip and the bird before being allowed to move again. However, you can move with the normal firing sequence, and these guns have comparatively low damage. ASI instead of CTR.

- Valiance: This gun has 3 quick bullets that also have knockback, so the charge attack simply isn't needed. ASI instead of CTR.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 08:22
#1
Juances's picture
Juances
~

If you want it that way, also give asi to Cutter line.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 08:54
#2
Metagenic's picture
Metagenic
okay, why not?

Give ASI to the guns I suggested and the Cutter line.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 08:57
#3
Asukalan's picture
Asukalan
-1

Dont take CTR from my beloved polaris, leave it alone! Mah lovely polaris with CTR!

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 11:50
#4
Severage's picture
Severage
Polaris

Does anyone actually even use Polaris' charge attack? Just curious...

~Sev

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 12:08
#5
Alpha-Stevo's picture
Alpha-Stevo
@Severage

Does anyone really use a gun's charge attack? Save for maybe the Neutralizer and the Blitz Needle, it seems like a waste of time, really.

So I, for one, support this.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 14:15
#6
Otaia's picture
Otaia
I'd rather see improvements

I'd rather see improvements to the charge shots (and regular shots) of the guns you want to see changed, so that people will actually use the charges. Makes no sense to have a useless charge shot.

The charge shot on Alchemers is fine and can be used to one-shot monsters. The only thing Alchemers could possibly use is a damage buff.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:11
#7
Orangeo's picture
Orangeo
Wha? Polaris charge is

Wha? Polaris charge is horrible. I'd dig a three-way polaris shotgun-style blast. The whole strategy with the polaris is to spread it over a wide area, and the charge isn't too good at that.

Charged alchemers are amazing when you solo. It's like a sniper in FSC.

Furthermore, give swords damage fuffs, but decrease the initial damage, and increase the initial speed.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 20:26
#8
Metagenic's picture
Metagenic
Alchemers

Their charge attack isn't bad, but it's simply more efficient to fire the normal shots instead of repeatedly using the charge.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 21:13
#9
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor
Or perhaps it would be even

Or perhaps it would be even better if the user of the item were prompted at levels 5 and 10 with a "Raise CTR, Raise ASI" box, and given a choice.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 22:39
#10
Duke-Sky's picture
Duke-Sky
@ Severage

Does anyone actually even use Polaris' charge attack? Just curious...

Yeah, I use my Firo Driver's charge shot all the time to do burn on groups I'm better off kiting, or before a room I know will be chaotic and I don't want to walk into.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 22:59
#11
Chris's picture
Chris
Swords gain ctr, not asi.

Swords gain ctr, not asi.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 23:28
#12
Psychodestroyer's picture
Psychodestroyer
....?

^Where did anyone say that?

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 23:30
#13
Renpartycat's picture
Renpartycat
...

Here's a better idea, why not revamp the charge attacks?

While it's an interesting idea, I'd rather have more useful charge attacks. Also, you've clearly never seen an Autogun line with Maximum ASI. Don't be hating on my swag, bro. ASI is a lot more useful than you think.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 23:47
#14
Metagenic's picture
Metagenic
revamping charge attacks?

Not trying to attack your post, but one would have to spend time thinking of how to revamp these guns, and then spend more time implementing these changes into the game and getting players to test them, instead of simply reprogramming the guns I mentioned to have ASI med instead of CTR med.

…and ASI on an Autogun…does that bonus actually do anything?

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 00:02
#15
Renpartycat's picture
Renpartycat
@Metagenic

I'd rather have quality, thank you. Your fix is effortless and not very original. If we could revamp the charge attacks, we could have some interesting new weapons. And it'll be worth the time invested.

And yes, ASI is good on the Autogun series. I have Maximum ASI and I can tell the difference. The reason why people think it's useless is because of the short cooldown at the end of your second volley. With my ASI, I deal more DPS, I have a bit more recovery time, and I finish my charge attack before the animation ends. The reason why there's that short cooldown after you fire your second volley. The Autogun series is a very strong and useful series of guns built for DPS and strong support. If they removed that little cooldown, the Autogun series would easily dominate most of the other guns out there.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 01:30
#16
Skold-The-Drac's picture
Skold-The-Drac
Agree with Fehzor

Prompt the user for their particular buff on heated weps.
Gives the player a better chance of individualizing the weapon.

ASI, CTR, Range, or Damage. 4 options, you decide.
yes?

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 06:32
#17
Athaza's picture
Athaza
Valiance Charge

They should change the charge attack on Valiance to a giant wave that blasts out and cuts through all enemies in its pathway. Since the gun is more utility than damage, it would make for a nice mass push-back.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 12:00
#18
Canozo's picture
Canozo
Dont take the CTR off my

Dont take the CTR off my Umbra driver :(

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 17:48
#19
Darkbrady's picture
Darkbrady
~Agrees with Ren~Also, with

~Agrees with Ren~
Also, with ASi I notice that the reloads themselves are faster as well as the shots, increasing the overall time involved in shooting completely, this certainly includes with autoguns; you notice the difference in all guns with ASi. Which is just one more reason why not to do this.

If you want to give ASi to guns instead of CTR, why not some swords too? Troikas could use ASi more than CTR. Sealed sword line probably could too. And the Cutter line's charge is basically useless, give that ASi too.
Et cetera.

There's a consistent bonus amongst every weapon. Don't just change some weapons becasue you want some free ASi; get a workaround like everyone else, or just do the simple thing and get a Swiftstrike. If I can use Swiftstrike at Vana, you can sure as hell learn to use it wherever you're goin' with guns, will supply all your ASi needs in the game, trust me.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 17:56
#20
Happyapathy's picture
Happyapathy
LEAVE MY CTR ALONE >:(

I love having the CTR bonus on my alchemers, I actually like my alchemers more then my polaris, if you fire a charged shot from an alchemer just right you can literally kill one, or possibly more, full health enemies with a single shot, whoever said firing repeatedly is more effective for alchemers clearly doesn't know how to do this (turn off auto-aim :D)

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 19:17
#21
The-Rawrcake's picture
The-Rawrcake
-1000 Please edit the OP and

-1000

Please edit the OP and let alchemers and pulsars keep CTR

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 19:24
#22
Orangeo's picture
Orangeo
"Swords gain ctr, not

"Swords gain ctr, not asi"
"Where did anyone say that?"
He's saying "what about swords", not making a correction.

"Please edit the OP and let alchemers and pulsars keep CTR"
I got an idea. Every five levels you get a "point" that can basicaly be used as a low CTR or low ASI or something;

Swords can gain damage bonus or attack speed
Guns can gain attack speed or charge reduction
Bombs can gain charge reduction or damage bonus

So each has two of the three, and none have two of the same.

(Just noticed Fehzor had simmilar idea)
A low is 7.5 % increase, so low range would be near useless. and it breaks the stable triangle -w- (OCD)

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 19:49
#23
The-Rawrcake's picture
The-Rawrcake
"Swords can gain damage bonus

"Swords can gain damage bonus or attack speed
Guns can gain attack speed or charge reduction
Bombs can gain charge reduction or damage bonus"

NO! Then give us the option of damage over ASI for gunners if you give it to swords!

We value damage so much more than ASI, it just isn't something you would place as a heat bonus.

-1 to all of these, OOO please do not do this it would only make balancing harder yet.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 22:36
#24
Encross
I think guns gaining CTR is

I think guns gaining CTR is fine.

#hipsterrules.

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