Spiral Knights - Damage increases/penalties for supereffective/resistant monster types?

Damage increases/penalties for supereffective/resistant monster types?

5 replies [Last post]

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 00:46

Linkalee

I feel like this has been answered before, but half an hour of searching gets me nowhere and I need to sleep soon.

If I use a Divine Avenger against a Construct, what percent damage increase does it get? If I use it against a Gremlin, what percent damage decrease does it get? I know that much more damage is resisted than is given as a bonus, but does anyone have exact/ballpark numbers? So that rough damage can be figured if an Argent Peacemaker was used on a Beast, or what kind of UV could be used to make a Voltedge equally effective against Slimes as it is against Constructs?

Any help/tests/knowledge would be much appreciated.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 03:12

Renpartycat

@Linkalee

From what I know, Damage UVs add a certain percentage to your damage when fighting certain enemies, and that bonus is best when your weapon is 5-starred.

Resisted damage feels like -50% damage. Not sure about critical damage. Might be at least +25%

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 04:42

Metagenic

I think

Critical damage should be somewhere around a bonus of 20+ percent

Resisted damage should be somewhere around a debuff of 70+ percent

You'll have to use a piercing sword to test this though, because elemental and shadow swords deal half normal damage.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 11:16

Chronovore

Critical/resisted damage is

Critical/resisted damage is not a straight percentage bonus. I made a thread about this subject here: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/39273
The short version is that (at least in tier 6 and for 5* weapons) at very low base damage values you receive a small damage bonus. This bonus increases faster than base weapon damage for a while, but after a while it slows down, and then the bonus damage starts decreasing, until it reaches a threshold where all attacks with base damage higher than that amount receive the same flat bonus to damage (at depth 28, this is ~160 base damage and ~81.5 bonus damage).
For the damage penalty, things seem to be simpler: you lose 85% of your base damage, but a certain amount of your base damage (~20) is immune to the penalty. So at 100 base damage, you lose 80*.85 = 68 damage. At 200 base damage, you lose 180*.85 = 153 damage. At 300 base damage, you lose 280*.85 = 238 damage.
Split damage weapons just get the bonuses/penalties for the two halves calculated separately and added together.

Note that (at depth 28, at least) from ~38 base damage to ~131 base damage the bonus is actually larger than the penalty, while for <38 or >131 base damage the penalty is larger than the bonus (and, since the bonus is capped while the penalty is not, as you reach very high damage values the penalty becomes much larger than the bonus).

I haven't investigated the effect of UVs/damage bonuses from armor on this, so I can't tell you how those affect damage output.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 14:31

Bopp

precision vs. simplicity

Metagenic gave good rules of thumb. They reflect the conventional wisdom. In truth they don't describe reality very precisely.

Chronovore has studied this in detail recently, and probably has the right answer, although his answer is disappointingly complicated.

Linkalee, the simplest and most precise thing for you to do is to ask this question about each of your weapons individually, using the damage tables on the wiki. For example, at Depth 28 the Divine Avenger looks like this:
* first swing: 40% bonus against preferred, 35% penalty against resistant
* second swing: 22% bonus, 38% penalty
* charge: 14% bonus, 40% penalty
Assuming that DA really is half normal and half elemental, these data support the idea of a 70%-80% penalty. But Chronovore's model is more detailed, with an 85% penalty but a certain amount of damage exempt. So you can see how Metagenic's rule of thumb for penalties approximates Chronovore's precise model. Sadly, bonuses are more complicated.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 20:52

Linkalee

Wow, wonderful answers guys.

Wow, wonderful answers guys. I never knew that the bonuses and penalties weren't concrete numbers, that they were more fluid than that. That would explain why I couldn't find any definite answers, there really are none to be found. I get the jist of what Chronovore's saying, and it seems that the curving on the bonuses would help in keeping the higher-base-damage swords from getting overpowered, that makes sense. Looking at the Wiki for damage values for each weapon and calculating percentages from that is a great idea, I'm too lazy to run my own tests. Thanks guys, the spectrum of replies here and the Wiki damage listings are extremely helpful for anyone just now blundering into this topic, like me.

Search

Damage increases/penalties for supereffective/resistant monster types?