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I just found out why damage weaknesses and resistances make sense

17 replies [Last post]
Wed, 01/25/2012 - 04:50
Renpartycat's picture
Renpartycat

Now I'm not the type that wants realism in video games, but I've always wondered how the different damage types work so well and so poorly against certain enemies. And after a short time of thinking, I've found out why.

Shadow Damage:
- Because darkness is more of a psychological element, it affects sentient beings such as Gremlins and Slimes. However, since Beasts and Constructs are not sentient, they're neutral to it. As for Fiends and Undead? They're filled with darkness, so it's obvious that they can resist it.

Elemental Damage:
- Elemental weapons are based on energy and magic. The electromagnetic pulses can devastate construct, and the great magic within elemental weapons can send undead back to their graves. However, Slimes and Fiends are neutral to elemental damage because EMP and magic doesn't have any extra effects on them. You would think Fiends should have an elemental weakness because they're evil, but they're not completely corrupt by darkness. They're just evil, spirit-like creatures. As for Beasts, they're animals that can easily adapt, which is why we see beasts of different status types, so they can resist elemental damage. Gremlins can also adapt, but they have special gear that's made to resist elemental attacks. While we may not have Gremlin armor yet, the Darkfang Shield is enough proof.

Piercing Damage:
- Piercing weapons are sharp weapons made to penetrate enemies. Since Beasts and Fiends are unarmored, they are vulnerable to piercing weapons. Gremlins are lightly armored, so they are neutral to piercing. And while Undead do not wear armor, piercing weapons are neutral to them because undead are tough and fueled by darkness. But if you ask me, Kats should be Fiends. As for Construct, they're heavily armored so piercing weapons can't do much against them. Slimes might not look tough enough, but they are. Penetrating a slime with a sharp sword is a difficult task because it'll easily get stuck inside the jelly. That is, if you're able to stick it deep enough.

And Normal weapons are just Normal weapons, average weapons that don't have any unique traits, weapons made for general usage. So yeah, that's about it. Discuss.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 05:30
#1
Darkbrady's picture
Darkbrady
Not to just belittle your

Not to just belittle your post but..isn't that what everyone thought anyways?

Idk though, never really talked about it because it always just seemed to fit in my mind. As all things go, I think they generally made things pretty logical, at least considerin' they kept it down to a pleasant three special types; 5+ "types" of damage in games always get exhausting dealin' with, but 3 types tend to be disregarded for flavour purposes, which was kept nicely done in SK.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 05:48
#2
Renpartycat's picture
Renpartycat
@Darkbrady

I doubt anyone has focused on the realism enough to know all this, I just thought they rolled with it.

And yeah, the damage system of this game works quite well.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 06:03
#3
Metagenic's picture
Metagenic
normal dmg still doesn't make sense

Dragon Scale Shield is weak because of its lack of normal protection…so it can resist piercing and elemental attacks well but not brute force general damage?

I think the game mechanics misrepresent normal damage as another unique damage type when it's being used against the player.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 07:19
#4
Mirmulnir's picture
Mirmulnir
Dude, YOU DON'T SAY? :O

Dude, YOU DON'T SAY? :O

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 07:30
#5
Mafiaso's picture
Mafiaso
awarded noble prize!

awarded noble prize!

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 07:36
#6
Etendue's picture
Etendue
"awarded noble prize!" A

"awarded noble prize!"
A prize for nobility, or the prize originally commissions by Alfred Nobel?

Nice thread, btw :O

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 09:36
#7
Eltia's picture
Eltia
Kudo to OP

Makes sense.

So according to your theory, Dragon / Wyvern type of monster (when we have one) will be weak to Shadow? Since Wyverns / Dragons have tough scales like armors to shield them. So obviously normal and piercing damage will be resisted. This leaves us with Elemental and Shadow. Don't think Elemental damage will be a problem to Wyverns / Dragons because some of them breath fire (which is elemental).

What's your take on this?

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 10:25
#8
Velcro's picture
Velcro
@Eltia:

End-game boss will be a Shadow Dragon (that breathes fire) then. =O

Scales for resistance against piercing and normal.
They breathe fire so it'll resist fire and elemental.
It's made of shadow so clearly shadow will be resisted.

Then it'll fly too, so you can only shoot at it. And then it'll regenerate too because the room will be so dark with shadows everywhere so the shadows will feed it, or something.

IMBA BOSS

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 11:51
#9
Merethif's picture
Merethif
@Renpartycat

@Renpartycat
I doubt anyone has focused on the realism enough to know all this, I just thought they rolled with it.

I think you underestimate most players.
I doubt anyone has just rolled with it. But maybe it is me who overestimates humankind.
Anyway, here some comments:

1. IMO Piercing Damage are stabs that do harm to vital organs and such - something like critical hits in D&D. Constructs and Slimes are resistant to them because they don't have "normal" vital organs and "normal" anatomy (for example in D&D constructs and slimes are immune to critical hits, backstabs and that sort of things).

2. Gremlins are resistant to elemental damage because, as mad inventors and engineers (not the ones overly focused on work safety issues), they experience a good deal of premature explosions, accidental electrocutions and unintended acid baths on daily basis.

BTW, personally, if I were SK designer, I would swap Fiends and Undead weakness. Piercing hearts (viatl organ) is a common method of dealing with vampires (undead) and energy based damage suits well with bashing creatures from other dimensions.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 13:37
#10
Az-Rel's picture
Az-Rel
actually

actually i disagree on elemental mainly :P i have always seen it like this(puting them all just 'cuase i got free time).

elemental:
nature stuff is strong against "not alive" stuff like construct (robots not living things) and undead (Duh).
weak against natual alive stuff beast and gremlins.
and neutral against alive but not so natural stuff jellies(they are alive but they are a living mass of goo) and fiends(they are supernatural thingies)

shadow:
evil or mind tricks.(i much agree on this one) is strong against slimes and gremlins 'cause they are sentinent non "evil" creatures. neutral to nonsentinent beings(beast and construct) and weak on evil (undead and fiend).

piercing:
poke... I dont think its about how armored a thing is. (mainly for slimes) is more about how much damage u can do poking a thing, like pokes go right thru slimes not damaging much, can't go thru construct as they are hard, on beast and fiends they got organs and stuff and as the poke tries to go deeper this damages them more (aplies to trojans too as one can asume the cristal continues inside the trojan). amd finally the neutral i guess gremlins are ligthly armored? and undead well reanimated bodies dont need their organs so poking is as good as hitting it(normal) exept for kats they are weird if they are ghost-like things poking would be really unefective, but since they are, aparently, more solid than that they are neutral

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 14:14
#11
Demonicsothe's picture
Demonicsothe
I feel like dragons should be

I feel like dragons should be a unique family, with different weakness/resistance based on what they look like. Or the other way around.

Such as, wyvern and wyvern-like dragons be weak to piercing. Many folklores has wyverns as a smaller, less intelligent cousin of dragons.

Status breathing dragons and the like be weak to shadow. Skelly/dark/necro'd dragons be weak to elemental.

Or it could just be dragons based on existing families. Fiend, wolver, constructs, ghosts. And the one I really want...

Jelly Dragons.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 14:50
#12
Aylnine's picture
Aylnine
I think piercing is the only

I think piercing is the only damage type that's pretty self explanatory: goes through fleshy things, can't harm hard/gelatinous things, does neutral damage to light armor and things-that-used-to-be-fleshy.

Elemental makes a little less sense, probably because there are so many kinds. It damages constructs because the elements (flowing water, rain, oxygen) can rust and break down metal or short circuit appliances, and its holy aspect (DA/AP) is effective against undead. It's not effective against gremlins and beasty things because they are adapted to the elements, since they live in the wild or build armor to protect against it. It's neutral against jelly and fiends because it just works out that way... though if I had to guess it would be because the jelly material isn't particularly flammable or conductive and fiends are covered by their health insurance.

Shadow makes the least sense to me since it is effective against jelly and gremlin. My best guess is that shadow is the only type of power that can damage the "heart"/soul, so it cuts through to the core of the jelly or the heart of the gremlin. It is neutral against beast and construct since beasts cannot be either good nor evil and constructs do not have a heart (hello Tin Man), and weak against fiend and undead for obvious reasons.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 15:09
#13
Orangeo's picture
Orangeo
I always saw it from a

I always saw it from a mathmatecal prespective... saw my parents putting presents under the tree on christmas T.T scarred for life.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 15:20
#14
Eltia's picture
Eltia
Why there will be no Shadow Dragon

Because everyone (and their dogs) have DA already.

Unless of course, OOO decides to nerf DA in favour of CIV.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 16:16
#15
Demonicsothe's picture
Demonicsothe
@orangeo: wut. @eltia:

@orangeo: wut.

@eltia: but...jelly dragons...

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 16:18
#16
Aylnine's picture
Aylnine
I don't think that's any

I don't think that's any reason not to have a shadow dragon. If anything, I think dragons should be in the Beast class, as piercing weapons are woefully underused in PvE, and do differing types of damage. Of course, that makes the armor make little sense as the dragon-type armors are strong to piercing, but then Skolver is strong to piercing too, so armor defense not always == enemy defense.

ETA: We can have jelly dragons too -- they would just be jellies in the shape of dragons =D Faux-llo dragons!

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 18:06
#17
Aemicus's picture
Aemicus
Yeah, all of this was kinda

Yeah, all of this was kinda obvious, but you did bring up a new idea. I'm not saying it's a good idea, in fact, I think it's pretty awful and not thought out.

"it affects sentient beings such as Gremlins and Slimes. However, since Beasts and Constructs are not sentient, they're neutral to it."

Sentient beings... slimes... Beasts are not sentient...

Slimes are sentient... Beasts are not...

You think a cube of jelly is sentient, yet a wolf isn't?
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/epic-jackie-chan-templ...

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