Spiral Knights - Damage Overload.

Damage Overload.

12 replies [Last post]

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 20:30

Severage

I couldn't find another thread like this via the Search bar (Maybe I'm that ignorant), but here goes anyway...

The Grand Flourish's damage goes pretty much all the way to the top of the gauge. Not quite, but nearly. While the Final Flourish's damage starts out stronger at LV 1 than Grand at LV 1, it seems to barely go any further. Does this gauge have an "Overload" similar to if you have too much health to display?

Just curious if it's really worth it. 800 CE is a hefty fee for what looks like very little difference.

EDIT: On a relevant topic, if you have "Maximum" ASI, and get an extra trinket with Medium ASI, does it still affect your AS? Or does it stop at Maximum?

Thanks in advance,

~Sev

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 20:33

Iron-Volvametal

...

From what I heard, Final Flourish is a LOT Better than the Other Lines, because the Statuses are "Lack-Luster."

Everything Stops at Maximum!. Nothing goes beyond it.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 20:36

Severage

o.o

Um, I wasn't comparing Grand Flourish to Furious Flamberge, I was wondering if Final Flourish's damage was worth upgrading to from Grand Flourish. :o

Thanks for the UV answer though.

PS: Grand Flourish is the 4* version of Final Flourish. :P

~Sev

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 20:37

Rangerwillx

The bars lie, a lot

1. NEVER, ever ever ever, look at a weapon and let the bars decide if it's the better weapon for you. The bars lie, a lot.
On upgrading your Grand Flourish, it depends. Do you have your 5* armor yet?
Do you play tier 3 lockdown? Will you use this weapon in D24-D28, or will you use before?
If you answered yes to I have my armor and helm, and I will use this weapon in D24-D28 a good amount, then you should consider upgrading.
It's another plus if you play lockdown. Be warned, the damage is the same before D24-D28.

2. It caps at maximum.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 20:38

Rangerwillx

Lulz, Ironskullkid.

Ironskullkid is the perfect example of someone who didn't read the entire post.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 20:45

Severage

@Rangerwill:

1. I believe I noticed that before based on the Sealed Sword lines...no harm in double-checkin' though I suppose...

:P Yes, I have two sets of 5* gear (I almost regret making Deadshot) and a different 5* sword/gun. The other sword is DV striker though and its usefulness ran out after T2.

I do play Tier 3 LD (Though, even with Grand Flourish and Skolver, I hate it...probably because I have no UVs/Trinkets).

I plan on using it universally, whenever Piercing damage is necessary (Due to it being my only pierce weapon). Most likely in FSC since DV Striker doesn't do much good there.

2. Thanks.

xD And it was such a short OP too.

So the answer is: Yes. Thanks :D

~Sev

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 20:46

Darkbrady

Max! is the cap aye, anything

Max! is the cap aye, anything beyond that is wasted.

Try and ignore the stat bars for the most part, they won't give accurate figures if you compare separate weapons.

Personally, my theory on the stats is that they're used to compare ratios of stats on the same weapon, and are just used between multiple weapons to get an idea for the overall ratio balance between separate weapons, but they're certainly not to be judged side by side as if the stats were static figures.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 20:53

Fehzor

Actually...

I'm not sure that max is the cap for status resists and defenses. I'm fairly sure that there is no cap on them, or that the cap is at least more than max.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 20:54

Severage

@Fehzor:

It'd kind of make sense that "Maximum" is...well..the maximum. But, you never know.

At least now I know those people who play LD don't have Maximum Pierce defense on every piece of gear they own. lol...

~Sev

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 20:55

Iron-Volvametal

@Rangerwill

...

Shaddup. I'm Tired. ._.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 21:16

#10

Rangerwillx

I do think that there is no max on armors and and status resists, though the status resist shields it doesn't matter

@Ironskullkid :p

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 21:43

#11

Darkbrady

Afaik, there's no "max" on

Afaik, there's no "max" on armours, as damage etc will always continue to be reduced slightly, but I think there's a diminishing returns threshold, where you're better off getting UVs for other defences and making it more multi-purpose.

Like two parts Vog both with Max! Fire UV won't really pay off that nicely compared to Max! Pierce or Shadow UVs, imo.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 14:10

#12

Antistone

"Maximum"

Abilities--such as increased damage, increased attack speed, charge time reduction, and increased movement speed--appear work on a 6-point scale where "low" is 1, "max" is 6, and abilities from two sources just add their ranks together. 6 ranks ("maximum") is the highest you can get on any of these.

Defenses are not abilities and do not work on the same scale. A UV "maximum" defense vs. piercing is only 4 times as big as a "low" UV (not 6, as you might expect). There is no evidence of a defense cap or diminishing returns until you reduce received damage to zero (or something very close to it)--in fact, the most recent evidence indicates that defense provides flat protection (not exponential as previously thought), so the proportional returns on additional defense are actually INCREASING, not diminishing.

The natural defense on a 5* armor is in the ballpark of 10 "ranks", so even a max UV on both armors will give you MUCH less protection than wearing armor that naturally has the correct defense type.

Status resistance is currently not as well understood, though bar lengths indicate that a "maximum" fire UV is also only 4 times as big as a "low" (not 6). Some limited tests on status resistance seem to indicate that you get roughly exponential protection until some magical point at which you become completely immune, but I bet it's more complicated than that. The point where you get immunity is different depending on the strength of the status effect, but many people report being immune to status bombs in Lockdown with 7 "ranks" of resistance (e.g. Skolver + Snarbolax, or Skolver with a "high" UV), I've found that you become immune to the status traps in the Advanced Training Hall with 10 ranks (e.g. full Skolver plus a 5* trinket), and Lapper has determined that it is possible to get enough fire resistance that you can't be ignited by shadow fire in FSC (but has not yet narrowed down exactly how much is required).

The natural status resistance on most 5* armors is equal to 4 ranks (same as a "maximum" UV), so UVs and trinkets can potentially make just as big a difference as your armor's natural stats in this area.

There's also some doubt as to the way resistance UVs stack. I'm guessing that's just a UI bug, but who knows?

But there's actually some pretty substantial incentives to stack bonuses from armor and UVs to get super-high defenses, especially if you can afford to craft other sets of armor to wear in other areas.