So I have been finding a shadow damage gun for my gunslinger set, but it there is only 3 shadow damage gun, sentenaza, Umbra Driver and Biohazzard. Which is the best gun for normal use? please give me some advice so I could decide on which to use
The best shadow damage gun
Tue, 01/31/2012 - 05:39
Tue, 01/31/2012 - 06:58
#2
You only have two choices for
You only have two choices for a shadow gun at the moment. Umbra Driver is a solid all-around gun. Biohazard is an incredibly gimmicky weapon and you either love it or you hate it. Personally, I think it's awful. The normal attack is pitifully weak, and the bullets travel very slowly and are thus hard to aim (especially since Gremlins dodge). Effective use of the gun requires setting up multiple charge shots and blowing them up all at once. The charge shots do no knockback or damage at all, and travel just as slowly as the normal shots. Every battle with the Biohazard is an elaborate routine that just gets really annoying after a while. And forget using the gun in parties. The monsters will just be too spread out.
If Sentenza becomes pure Shadow, I will use that as my Shadow gun instead. I mostly find myself wanting a Shadow gun for things like Polyps and large Lichens. Groups of Jellies aren't too difficult to deal with as a gunner.
Tue, 01/31/2012 - 07:53
#3
If I were running a
If I were running a gunslinger loadout it would be:
Nova Driver
Umbra Driver
Blitz Needle or Callahan (Blitz better for FSC)
Wildcard: Normal sword, status bomb, status gun, whatever
Tue, 01/31/2012 - 09:37
#4
Umbra = excillent for sniping
Umbra = excillent for sniping gremlins, one shotting w/ charge even in full partys.
Biohazard = excillent at taking out packs or jellies and litchen, especially if healers are present because it will often inflict poison status.
Both challenges can be overcome with observation of monsters attack habbits and savvy playstyle.
~Lucas
Tue, 01/31/2012 - 10:04
#5
May I ask...?
How often do T3 gremlins dodge? Because in the first half of T2 (which is the furthest gremlin level I've been to), gremlins are still slow enough to get hit by my toxic catalyzer. But I recall from somewhere on this forum that sentenza is not a popular gun because the damage type makes it effective against wolvers and gremlins, both of which dodge sentenza rounds with impunity...
Anyway, just my two cents' worth about the catalyzer line... I feel that catalyzers work better in smaller parties or when soloing. It's easier to get the mobs the cluster, and you can be more assured that the mob with all the charged shots won't die before you activate the charges.
Tue, 01/31/2012 - 10:04
#6
I concur with BSD
Gunslinger chiming in, I've used every gun in the game at one point or another.
I keep my Sentenza for Gremlin menders, because the accuracy is nice, and repeated shots kill quick. Also, it is marginally usefull against wolvers, but I really wouldnt bother.
I use Umbra Driver as my Shadow gun, charge attack into a group murders all comers. Polyps fall to my wrath. Lichen colonies are damaged nicely.
Used a Biohazard, sold it. Great damage, but i feel it is outclassed by the speed of umbra driver. BY the time you get the 5 charges loaded on a colony, ive destroyed the colony with Umbra and moved on.
As for a sword, I carry the appropriate sword for the level im in. I have Acheron, VOltedge, Glacius, Final Floursih as my main swords. They interchange as needed.
Tue, 01/31/2012 - 13:48
#7
Biohazard stuff
Just a note: if you're judging catalyzer-type weapons, just know that the projectile moves a little faster with each upgrade. It's not saying much, but they move at running speed at 5*, whereas you can normally run faster than the shots on the lower grade ones.
Anyway, it's been a while since the thread, but when Neutralizer/Biohazard first came out, I think someone may have come to a conclusion that you do faster 1v1 damage doing normal biohazard shots than stacking charge attacks, faster 1vMany using charge->detonate, and faster 4vAnything if everyone stacks charges and one person detonates it.
In both PVP/PVE, it definitely feels more like a retreating gun than an offensive one. In PVE, it's easiest to use when you have the aggro than when you're trying to snipe (LOL) something chasing your teammates. I've toyed with my Biohazard in lockdown and have gotten most of my connecting hits by predicting a dodge pattern or running away and "dropping" shots behind me while being chased.
In PVE, charge attack is useful if you're delaying an attack though. While I have landed a few charge attacks in lockdown, I don't have any reliable use for it there.
ex:
Jelly King circling around invincible --> load a normal jelly with charges --> shield push into jelly king when he's vulnerable --> detonate.
Wed, 02/01/2012 - 18:39
#8
Umbra Driver has far better
Umbra Driver has far better AoE with split bullets + ricochet. It's charge attack can be much more explosive when positioned properly one shotting, say, a polyp. It is also safer to use compared to chain charging the Biohazard. If you are getting your first shadow gun, definately the Umbra Driver. Once you have that, you can get the Bio to test it out and do things like Seiran said during berserk jello king.
Right now we do not have much options for pure shadow guns, so you'll pretty much see a great majority of gunners using an Umbra Driver.
When Sentenza goes pure shadow, it will be the best single target damage shadow gun. It will still have no AoE or Utility though, so even after the change most gunners will probably be using the Umbra unless they go antigua just because they are extremely tired of using Umbra.
Wed, 02/01/2012 - 18:51
#9
What? Define utility. A
What? Define utility. A weapon with high utility to me means that it can be used in a lot of different situations. Sentenza is a very fast weapon that can be used against almost any enemy (it's just not the ideal weapon for most situations, more often than not because its damage is resisted). There isn't a lot that Umbra Driver can do that Sentenza can't.
Sentenza's charge attack is also quite effective at killing large clumps of monsters. Umbra is definitely still better, though.
Wed, 02/01/2012 - 18:57
#10
Most don't like the antigua
Most don't like the antigua charge attack due to the long period of immobility, but I have never used it because I am not a fan of antiguas overall because the thought of not only not having AoE but not having a pure damage annoys me. So I cannot say.
But I guess my definition of utility might be way off, so let's just say it still has 0 AoE compared to Umbra :) there is 2-mob clipping inbetween the two mobs with Sent, but when you 2-mob clip with ricochet split bullets from umbra, you don't double your damage but quadrouple it roughly. you'll disintegrate monsters when shooting inbewteen them.
Wed, 02/01/2012 - 19:12
#11
I have +4 ASI, and I also use
I have +4 ASI, and I also use my Blitz Needle as much as possible within reason (the charge shots seem to take roughly the same amount of time), so I don't have a huge problem with the immobility. You just have to tread carefully and make sure you'll be safe for the next two seconds or so before unloading. The bigger problem with the charge shot is that the shots preceding the owl don't have any mini-stun effect and make it more difficult to aim. But it shouldn't really be a problem for Slimes and Gremlins.
I don't have an Umbra, but I have a Nova and a Magma, so I'm well aware of the ricochet tricks. I mostly want a pure Shadow Sentenza to kill Polyps and Giant Lichens more effectively. Blitz mows down Gremlins and Magma is good enough for Jellies imo to not warrant getting a weapon specifically for the purpose.
Wed, 02/01/2012 - 20:08
#12
Until then, both polyps and
Until then, both polyps and giant lichens can clip split bullets on normal shots even if you position the shot a little bit to the right of them like the charged shots. Then, for every one shot you deal double normal damage :) it's pretty sweet. It's like that split bullet that splits off to the left automatically just clips and hits the target of the original shot itself.
But you might already know that - I imagine sentenza pure shadow might still be better single target against them.
Wed, 02/01/2012 - 20:13
#13
One thing about Biohazzard
It is not just about pure damage... because it has switched place with Umbra. Umbra (and Prisma) don't inflict status like most Alchemers... instead Biohazzard gets it.
Also note that the Toxic Catalyzer line can inflict poisoned status with the normal shot. With menders around, you can simply spray poison all around and have the menders kill for you.
Wed, 02/01/2012 - 20:35
#14
"because it has switched
"because it has switched place with Umbra. Umbra (and Prisma) don't inflict status like most Alchemers... instead Biohazzard gets it. "
Nova / Prisma gains extra damage swapped for not having a status. Because of this, most gunners are turning to Nova Driver, but I do not think there has really been much testing with it.
Also note that Biohazard actually sacrifices damage for its poison when compared to the Neutralizer. But it can make up for that being specialized damage against slimes and gremlins that is.
Also something for menders, they are one of the easiest things for gunners to take out. A few shots of the Umbra will tear through a mender, and a Callahan can rip up a wing when you learn when to and when not to position Callahan bullets on wings. When in a giant mob, gunners can just snipe them out. With new nerfed gremlin dodges, I don't see poison being a big deal at all for menders. Remember it is easier to target menders first.
Thu, 02/02/2012 - 02:19
#15
"With new nerfed gremlin
"With new nerfed gremlin dodges, I don't see poison being a big deal at all for menders."
The nerf doesn't work though - gremlins can still dodge non-stop. With the history of having to scold menders multiple times for attacking (and I still saw them using that attack animation), I am not sure how soon can OOO fix this one. It is indeed very easy to keep attacking and let the gremlin dodge into a wall/corner, but this is only feasible if you have nothing else chasing you. Compared to hunting down the menders - remember you have to do it multiple times in quick succession, or other menders will revive the ones you killed - it's far easier to instead poison the crowd and let the menders help you kill. You will have a much smaller crowd, allowing you to go after the menders (that you didn't poison) with little pressure behind you.
In a party you will have help, but when you solo, it's you alone against all of them.
Though honestly these days I don't use my Virulent Cat much - since Combuster out DPS menders easily.
Thu, 02/02/2012 - 02:23
#16
You have pretty much two
You have pretty much two options
a) Umbra Driver
b) Biohazard
Umbra ; Lovely damage,Fast bullets,ricochet and shines with charge attacks(1shots menders and such)- 2 shot clip
Biohazard ; Lovely damage,slow speed bules (good for spraying),quick built charge attack can devastate hordes and high chance to inflict poison status-3 shot clip
For both umbra and biohazard against gremlins, all you need to do is dont shot where they are shot where they will be (1 square backwards)
both of them nice imo Bio better for pve and Umbra better for pvp neither of them bad guns.
Ps: I choose sell my Umbra because Biohazard overshadowed it for my loadout (blitz,callahan,bio,polaris/magma driver (outside fsc magma most of the time)
Thu, 02/02/2012 - 06:41
#17
There aren't many jellies and
There aren't many jellies and slimes unless you are in RJP because most tier 3 gates are just hordes of devilites, shock, or poison random levels nowadays.
So you can pretty much just take your pick: Bio or Umbra.
I am going to say though, Umbra is also amazing at annihilating groups with its split bullets and ricochet. You can deal damage 5 times per bullet inbetween two jellies or in giant groups of jellies.
Sentenza is not really a shadow gun, due to its half-piercing damage. It doesn't do great damage, and it's hard to work into an optimized loadout in most of the Clockworks. Some people use it for PvP, I guess; otherwise, it is just not a great gun. Note that the developers are actively considering changing its damage type to pure shadow; if that happens, then we will have to re-evaluate.
Umbra Driver has the same mechanics as any alchemer. Two-shot clip, medium-fast bullets, ricochets. It's a solid gun with nothing strange going on.
Biohazard uses the Catalyzer mechanics (charge, charge, ..., charge, blow up), so it's really different from Umbra Driver. I've never used it, so I'll let others comment on their relative merits.