Is anyone else upset about the survey question again?

Adding more equipment into the game?
Countless times people have suggested balancing current equipment in the game, like bombastic, shadowsun, azure guardian, and some of the shadow lair armor specifically almirian crusader.
Why did the survey just come out about adding more equipment into the game? We already have to balance the current gear, and that task is more difficult when more unbalanced gear enters the game.
Here is one example of balancing we can do, taken from Happyapathy's OP in the thread that he made to let gunners finally be heard. Obviously, based on the survey question and dev response in the thread, we are still being ignored and the thread will continue to be active and brought back for every following month that we remain ignored.
And here is the example I talked about:
"Balance the Shadowsun Set
Gunslinger armor is not the greatest, I can live with that, however the Shadowsun set damage bonus is too low to outweigh its resistance reduction, the demand for it to be fixed has been repeatedly brought back up for half a year now with no response or action from the devs, its basically a shifting of number values and not asking for a whole lot yet other weapon balances that are not as big of an issue or as old are been addressed while this one is completely ignored, is there a reason for this?"
Taken exactly from what Happyapathy said.
Let's fix our priorities.
When I made the thread talking about messed up priorities from balancing 0 and 1 star items I did not mean start adding more equipment into the game.
So far it has gone Balancing brandishes which were fine compared to other unbalanced weapons and armor > 0 and 2 star items > NPC graphics. Surveys have been about adding pets!? and then now new equipment?
What the heck??? This game really is not in a position where we can do things like tweak NPC graphics. There are much more important things that need to be done.
Fix your priorities!

The devs basically just only gave you the option to answer as if you WANT more equipment, even if you don't.
I never thought of that, because I worked my way around it to answer in a way like my OP summed up.
I agree about the devsusing forums more. The devs using the forums more does not mean wasting their time with three word games and how they got their usernames and the discussion of NPC's genders! Things that actually matter to the game like gun balance.
This is outrageous!

They don't comment doesn't mean they're not reading suggestions. Suggestions take a VERY long time to implement, and the survey questions are for things they're probably working for 4+ months down the line I would think. Just because they don't instantly take every suggestion made on the forums and put it in game doesn't mean they're not listening. I fully agree about balancing the gunner gear and guns in general, but I honestly do think that in the upcoming large update, it's going to happen. Patience, designing a game that not only looks great but has fun play is really tough, and takes a long time to work on the mechanics so that we don't get catastrophic glitches. Even after small patches there are usually some glitches, they have to be even more careful with bigger changes.

Well then why don't they comment? It seems like the best way to get a GM to say something is to make some random topic in gremlin chatter or to make fun of chris. (That was for you jim-dale).
On a side note, antigua and sentenza are getting changes.

most of the time, there is no need for them to comment. Nick posted an update thread not too long ago, and they are making it known that they are working on both the gunner gear (which has probably the most complaints) AS WELL AS new content in the form of images released showing different gremlins.
Also, if they were held responsible for answering every question everyone posted on the forums, they would never sleep. They don't work all the time, and whether you think they care or not, they read what's written.
But as someone in an older thread pointed out, most forums are very mean spirited. It's easy to complain when something goes wrong, but it's harder to remember to say good job when things run as planned. It can really get to developers if they had to reason out why they can't do their job exactly as someone on a forum expects.
I have full faith that OOO's will get the job done, and the gunner changes ARE coming. Just a little more patience.

You act as if the developers are only capable of doing one thing at a time and that this survey will miraculously spawn several new weapons before a balancing patch occurs (which has already been announced..).
Would it make sense for them to ask what gear needs balancing in their survey? No. They've heard it from the forums, and they are in the process of addressing these balance issues. Obviously balancing is not the easiest thing; It's gonna take a bit of time.

"Also, if they were held responsible for answering every question everyone posted on the forums, they would never sleep."
Not every question. I'm just saying they shouldn't religiously not post on suggestion fourms.
"But as someone in an older thread pointed out, most forums are very mean spirited. It's easy to complain when something goes wrong, but it's harder to remember to say good job when things run as planned."
I'm not gonna disagree with you on that. I remember, but I just don't mention it as much as I should. If I posted every nice thing the devs did, I would never sleep.

"It's gonna take a bit of time."
How long has the Shadowsun armor been like this? By Happyapathy's post, there are things like the brandishes being looked at.
There hasn't been any feedback from the devs concerning Shadowsun specifically. And they proved that they could care less by slapping us in the face adding 0 and 1 star item... balance??...
"Just because they don't instantly take every suggestion made on the forums and put it in game doesn't mean they're not listening."
I posted about PRIORITIES. NOT instant feedback suggestions. Their priorities are apparently 0 and 1 star items and NPC Graphics. Can you not say that that is pathetic and a waste of your donations?
"Also, if they were held responsible for answering every question everyone posted on the forums, they would never sleep. They don't work all the time, and whether you think they care or not, they read what's written. "
They are active. in threads about NPC gender and Chris and how they got their username.
It is all messed up priorities. They might read suggestions, but they disrespect us by not giving feedback for anything else besides gender confused people.
Bechamel and Chris should both be a sign of ignorance to all gunners and bombers who are being ignored.
"You act as if the developers are only capable of doing one thing at a time and that this survey will miraculously spawn several new weapons before a balancing patch occurs"
Once again, this is about the dev's PRIORITIES. I did not complain because they added or are planning to add new weapons or equipment, but because it is apparently their top priority.
So, after reading this, any more people that see the weird (not necessarily wrong, just weird) path that this game is taking?
Something that I want to see be done is less activity in pointless things like three word games on the forums. More activity in things regarding the game itself. It infurates people when we and we alone are who we argue with in the threads asking for gun change. We should get feedback. Feedback! Not just a quick glance and an ignore by the devs. If they both read and take part in discussion about an NPC's gender, then they can both read AND take part in discussion about what the heck we have been wanting for a long time!

The-Rawrcake, are you mistaking my posts for dev posts? I don't see much dev activity in the threads you mention.
Anyway, the uplink surveys should not be taken in any way as an indication of immediate dev activity or priorities. Look to Nick's "What's in Development" posts for that.

Aside from the occasional post from Nick, the devs can't and/or won't talk about what they're doing. They have a policy about it. I'm pretty sure they read a lot of what we say, although whether or not they actually care about our best arguments is a different story. It would be very nice if they'd tell us what was up with some of the equipment in the game that is just inferior, like the Chaos set, like a "this is what we were thinking when we made this." It would be nice if they'd directly tell us that they're considering our suggestions, rather than a vague "changes to handguns are coming at some point" which could mean nearly anything, including the AP/Sentenza change and nothing more.
So yeah I'd like more gear, but the current manifestation of the game renders most gear nonviable due to being outclassed by other gear. Above all, I'd like to know whether OOO is considering the changes and testing them out, or if they think that gear is balanced as it is. I'd really just like to know what they're thinking when it comes to gear balance in a game where the gear is pretty heavily not balanced.
What people like to see from their game developers is some indication of what's coming next, spelled out exactly. The devs did this with AP/Sentenza changes (though we haven't seen those yet). They've told us what they're working on in January, but they're not keeping us posted or giving us more details. They gave us the dragon wings preview, but we want to see legitimate gameplay changes, when the last thing that's happened in that regard since October were new Brandish charges. Basically, we have no idea when things are coming, what things are coming, or anything. Every update OOO makes is a complete surprise.
Basically, change your policy of "we can't say anything related to the game." Telling us a couple of things here and there prompts player interest, doesn't reduce your sales, and is fun for you guys, too. I KNOW you guys enjoy designing your game. Let us in on the fun; you don't have to listen to what we say, but we're certainly going to listen to what you say and talk about it. The complete lack of transparency makes us have to try and discern what you're working on through the polls, and we're not getting a very good impression. You don't have to spoil the big surprises, but an art update here and there and maybe a balance move on an item or two? Telling us that kind of thing in advance isn't going to ruin anyone's fun. And one person taking half an hour every week or so to type up something is hardly a huge time commitment. "Developer's Game Design Corner Blog" if you have to.

"It would be nice if they'd directly tell us that they're considering our suggestions, rather than a vague "changes to handguns are coming at some point" which could mean nearly anything, including the AP/Sentenza change and nothing more."
I can't find the post but, someone explained it once that the devs can't respond due copyright law or something close to that , don't know how true it was as i know nothing about US laws.

I'm pretty sure their terms and conditions cover the fact that if you submit ideas to them via the forums then you can't claim copyright over said ideas if they make it into the game. At any rate, talking about what they're working on is certainly not going to have copyright issues. It would be like being unable to show a movie preview because of copyright issues. That doesn't really make any sense.

though I will say that this is FAR from a perfect explanation.
When someone signs on to work on a game like this it is certain that they have to sign a non disclosure agreement, almost certainly a very comprehensive one. If they wanted to have someone do something like Kalaina suggested, they would have to alter that agreement for the specified employee, in very specific ways. This could cause said employee a lot of stress, considering that if they overstep their bounds on what they can and can not say, they could get in a good bit of trouble.
The trouble is that they can't release a lot of what they're working on because most of it is probably riddle with bugs till close to the release, and then why not wait and make it a surprise! More specific info would be nice, yes, but they HAVE put out pictures of designs in development, Nick DOES put out development updates every so often and they do let us know what's going on in general. While yes, I would love to know more, it is a very tricky situation about how much they can tell us. Let one thing slip and then they give it all away.
Tl;Dr
US law/disclosure agreement stuff is HAARDDD and complicated and probably part of the reason they can't tell us much (much like beta testers can't say much) but it would be nice to get a few snippets here and there more than we get.
Edit: thanks for catching that Kalaina, that was my bad.

I don't think it's copyright you're looking for there. It's more along the lines of corporate propriety and PR.
The problem is that it's a game, and game development really shouldn't be like other businesses. The game developers that are most appreciated by their communities are those that don't feel like a faceless corporation and actually feel like individual, cool people, all working on facets of the game. With OOO, I don't even know how many employees they have, how many programmers, how many artists, or what. I don't know who has a say in game content and who doesn't. I don't really know anything. OOO feels like a faceless corporation.
So yeah, I understand the feeling that there is a need to tread lightly, but that's the sort of thing that makes people hate capitalism and lawyers. It's really not that hard to avoid telling us exactly what's coming. I'd be perfectly happy with occasional interesting tidbits about how certain things in the game now were designed. Like how'd they come up with snipes? Where'd they get the idea for weapon x or armor y, what were they thinking when they designed Aurora Isles, etc. I just want to know that OOO is a group of people who love their game rather than a faceless entity I know nothing about. And maybe occasional feedback to us on the forums, if they even read anything we say. Maybe they don't. I have no idea.

"Once again, this is about the dev's PRIORITIES. I did not complain because they added or are planning to add new weapons or equipment, but because it is apparently their top priority."
You think them posting an optional survey question for something that might happen months down the track makes it their top priority?

And while I'm ranting, might as well suggest having a Q&A event. If the community could borrow Nick for a few hours every month, it'd be nice to have a thread, made by Nick, that basically says "ask questions and I shall answer," wherein we ask him questions and he answers. Everything from "Snipe wings - how do they work?" to "When are we going to fight King Tinkinzar" is fair game, and he doesn't have to answer the questions he feels are spoilers or would ruin the surprise. I figure if anyone knows what he can and can't say, it's Nick.
Basically, there are certain things we want to know, like what's up with the Chaos set and when are they actually going to get around to adjusting the damage types on AP/Sentenza, and if we had a chance to ask these questions at a time when we know we're going to be heard I think there'd be a lot less complaints on this forum about how the devs don't care about us. Sure there are going to be some stupid questions, too, but this forum community is honestly pretty excellent, so that would be minimal. A line or two to answer any given question is not exactly difficult, either.

"The-Rawrcake, are you mistaking my posts for dev posts? I don't see much dev activity in the threads you mention.
Anyway, the uplink surveys should not be taken in any way as an indication of immediate dev activity or priorities. Look to Nick's "What's in Development" posts for that."
Oh I see. There is a little thing under your name, I just took it as all purple = dev. Well that explains something I was missing, thank you. I see that you are very active in the forums, is the activity of the devs in the forums often read and not join discussion? Or are they not allowed to join in discussion? Example being something like Antigua changes thread.
And the issue I have with "What's in Development" thread is that there was something similar regarding the changes to antigua and RSS. We all discussed it and came up with RSS remaining the same (some suggested going elemental) and then the Antigua changes would be for the better. Then poof, we have no idea what type of work is being done on it because we have no feedback. It is either A. Quietly a priority, or B. Not a priority. You can see that I took option B pretty quickly, because it is the most clear one.
Same deal with the handgun changes mentioned in the January "What's in Development" thread. Lately, the updates have been focused on the Brandish line, a popular weapon and not exactly worthy of a buff. Swordsman would argue they like the buff, but then again, swordsman tend to be (because I discriminate them, I view them as sheep) not very open-minded and would love to see a 100% damage buff on everything they have because it benefits them wether or not it benefits the game itself. Anyway, with the unnecessary Brandish line buff, there came the 0 and 1 star item change. This is the most confusing of all of these. Nobody that I have seen has openly complained (at least not nearly as much as the Dear devs gunner thread for example) about 0 and 1 star items not being powerful enough, because they do not impact the game that much.
Now the "January" changes aren't supposed to happen in "January." I realis/ze that, but when there is no feedback for the entire month of January, this is where I get the whole "not a priority" thing I have been saying over and over.
So what I am seeing is that the "What's in Development" things, like handgun balance, is going to end up being a Possible changes to split special weps thread 2.0 - vanish, or at least we think, because we do not have any feedback to support that there is indeed changes going to happen.
And then the idea goes away?
@Kalaina - Your idea of the thread where devs themselves would answer every question in the thread sounds like a great idea. Then there wouldn't be those "So... what about gunslinger hat graphics?" slips in development threads that never get a response which resorts to the revival of a rage thread (which I support, as long as things are the way they are, Happyapathy).

I just gotta say we need new playable content fast.
After the Dragon wings, I dont want to see any new accessories or costumes for at least 3 months UNLESS the devs finally release new monsters or better a new boss stratum.
Freakin' open the Core for all I care, just hurry up!

Making new gear or Re-balancing old gear.....it's obvious they're going to release new gear first. Releasing new gear is another CE, crown, and time sink. Not to mention giving the appearance of new content. Re-balancing old stuff which most people probably have already isn't going to accomplish those nearly as effectively.
As for accessories and costumes, yeah....what I said above to a much grander scale.

LOL @ this thread. Particularly at OP.
--> Thinking Survey Questions is NOT simply a way to make up for the fact that a large number of the game's players don't actually touch the forums (and I'm fairly certain of this).
--> Thinking the Survey Questions actually refers to things Devs are going to put in the game soon rather than generic data-gathering.
--> Forum moderators and Game Masters and the Development team are the same people
--> Ad Hominem and stereotyping against anyone who prefers using a sword to a gun
--> Oh my, do I spot a little... TRANSPHOBIA? Oh lord
--> General self-entitledment because the Devs seemingly can't be bothered to repaint a hat. Excuuuuse me, Princess, but I'm fairly certain putting "make something REALLY special for CNY and appeal to both furries and Asians (WHO MAY EVEN INCLUDE THEIR OWN BUSINESS PARTNERS) playing the game" and "making a new animated model and making sure it doesn't spill it's polygons all over the place" as well as their usual "deal with corporate B.S." over "changing a bunch of numbers and repainting a hat a couple times" IS "prioritizing", you silly nit.
I CAN'T STOP LAUGHING.
say, consider that maybe instead of simply retexturing the hats they're actually working new models for them? Wiki suggests a Chapeau and a Stetson are two entirely different-looking hats.

swordsman tend to be (because I discriminate them, I view them as sheep) not very open-minded and would love to see a 100% damage buff on everything they have because it benefits them wether or not it benefits the game itself.
And gunners are self-entitled imbeciles who repeatedly make threads begging for buffs and arrogantly dismiss other playstyles because they stupidly think that their special snowflake "look at me I'm different" attitude somehow makes them better.
See how stupid it is to make sweeping generalizations about large groups based on a few select individuals?

I actually like having a good swordsman in the party, IMO. I'm a gunner, and I think that swordsmen help things go a little smoothly and add more balance. Each one can specialize in something that helps the party.
I tend to think of swordies as the tanks and DPS at the same time. They are taking the most damage up front in combat and keeping monsters at bay. At the same time they are dealing out the most damage and making things go a little faster. Gunners can snipe though and add an extra punch to the swing as they fire and pick at the enemies, and a lot of gunners have something that can cause a status affect to monsters, further debuffing them in combat.
As far as playing a bomber goes I like that too but I feel seriously crippled without a good party. I don't think this can be fixed. Bombs are made for crowd control, and without a crowd, it's just better to handle everything else with a sword. Thus the utility of bombers is sort of situational, but when the time is right they really shine.
A really good party can have a mix of these three working together, helping to cover every weakness of the rest of the party. I noticed for one, since I snipe from the back, I tend to not get hurt which makes me a perfect candidate for reviving the swordsmen because they're taking the most damage. Thus I manage to contribute in my own little special way.

@Wuvvums, I did not say anything about swordsman being entirely bad. I said one little thing. It's just that those two's anger posts makes it appear like I was completely trash talking them this entire time.
snowflake "look at me I'm different"
I haven't even mentioned myself being "different" or liking being different. In fact, I haven't mentioned a thing about swords except for that. The reason I said that is because some (not all) swordsman like to make things messy and talk about their shiny Polarises and other things which really confuses people. They'll also talk to a new player and instantly start suggesting that they should go for x sword and get wolver regardless of their playstyle. I have seen swordsman, regarding "would like to see a 100% damage buff," want to have their swords go pure specialty instead of split normal (though this wouldn't necessarily be a 100% buff)...
Thinking the Survey Questions actually refers to things Devs are going to put in the game soon rather than generic data-gathering.
I didn't say they would put it in the game. I said that this was just that, data gathering, but data gathering in the wrong way / time. That's what I meant by messed up priorities.
Ad Hominem and stereotyping against anyone who prefers using a sword to a gun
Calm down, all I ever did was call you sheep. It's better than things I've heard about gunners, like "I'd rather finish Vana in 30 minutes than take a gunner and have it finish in an hour and a half..."
General self-entitledment because the Devs seemingly can't be bothered to repaint a hat.
This isn't the only issue with gunners right now... I remember specifically talking about shadowsun.
You made it sound like all we have been wanting is different looking hats...
Next time, keep your anger inside. All I did was say you are sheep. Look at how you reacted...

"I'd rather finish Vana in 30 minutes than take a gunner and have it finish in an hour and a half..." Rawrcake, who the heck said that? I'd really like to know.
BLITZ NEEDLE IS A GUN, AND SO IS ARGENT PEACEMAKER

- I view them as sheep
:C
-They'll also talk to a new player and instantly start suggesting that they should go for x sword and get wolver regardless of their playstyle.
But Vescrit is a Salamander.
-I actually like having a good swordsman in the party, IMO. I'm a gunner, and I think that swordsmen help things go a little smoothly and add more balance.
Vescrit loves Wuvvums!
-gunners are self-entitled imbeciles who repeatedly make threads begging for buffs and arrogantly dismiss other playstyles because they stupidly think that their special snowflake "look at me I'm different" attitude somehow makes them better.
I don't agree, but I did see someone say that Swordsmen and Bombers don't deserve to wear Gunner armor or something along those lines. So what if I feel like running around as a cowboy with a sword?

"So what if I feel like running around as a cowboy with a sword?"
That'd certainly be an interesting way to herd cows!
Anyways, there's another reason I liked gunning over playing with the swords and I think it was more because I could make an alternate setup and not have to focus on clicking or pressing an attack button as often. There was a time when I used only the keyboard setup and a cutter-series weapon and my fingers HURT from it. The gun setup feels much more relaxed for my hands, though if anyone can suggest an ergonomic design for some other weapon setups I'm all ears.

"That'd certainly be an interesting way to herd cows!"
Vescrit rides a horse, unleashing Brandish charges near the cows.
"I think it was more because I could make an alternate setup and not have to focus on clicking or pressing an attack button as often."
As a swordsman, I expect a broken mouse button in my Spiral Knights future.
"The gun setup feels much more relaxed for my hands, though if anyone can suggest an ergonomic design for some other weapon setups I'm all ears.
."
As for that I'm a little bit ¯\(°_0)/¯, but what do you mean? Like control layout?

Yes, control layout. It's hard to explain what ergonomics is, but it's sort of like the design of something like a chair or a keyboard that fits the use for our body parts best in a way that makes us comfortable.

I know what ergonomics is, I just wanted to make sure I knew what you wanted to know.
Still a little hard for me to figure out what to tell you though. I assume you use the WASD Movement Layout with M1 for attack/M2 for Shield?
"the design of something like a chair or a keyboard that fits the use for our body parts best in a way that makes us comfortable."
The chair bit kind of throws me off. Makes me think you want to know how to sit although I couldn't really tell you how.
Sorry for my derpyness. Also does this count as thread derailing?

The chair was an example of something included in ergonomics. Then again -everything- would be designed for ergonomics including someone's desk.
My friend is going to try and play with a gaming controller and I do wonder how well that will work since game controllers are designed pretty damn well for, well, gaming.

My guess is that would ultimately depend on the controller.
Such as an Xbox controller.
1 Analog stick or the directional pad obviously covers movement. The triggers could be Attack/Shield. ABXY could be Vials/Pills I suppose.
In the case of you used the leftmost analog stick to move, you could use the directional pad to possbily switch weapons.
/has never played a computer game with a console controller
//wouldn't know how the console controls would translate into the control edit menu.

Just for how i read your first post. And i'm sorry, but i read it in Waspinators voice. You are now officially my favorite.
Just so that i don't derail entirely, as a gunner, yeah a couple things could use changes, but overall I'm happy with gunner equipment. Shadowsun would be more useful with elemental or shadow defense, but thats about it for me. Aesthetically, I could care less what our stuff looks like, i use costume armor 90% of the time anyway.
My only request would be gunner armor with fire resistance. Either deadshot, or shadowsun with fire resistance, the two weaknesses and the damage low, or anything really. Thats all. Do it or don't, I'm still going to spend my money on the only game I play: this one.
I voted yes, becuase voting no might sound like "I don't want there to ever be any more equipment in the game". Dev should just use the fourms more. Undercover devs would be boss....