If everything can be bought with tokens(grim/primal/forge in-particular) , then rare items can be purchased by even a player who has cleared only t1 dungeons. This lowers the crown value on all items purchasable with tokens, if anyone has been watching say the price of Trojan Horseshoes for example. A rare item isn't rare if a man in town has an infinite amount of them. With items losing crown value and energy rising (slowly but steadily), the only real way to make money is by chaining t2 or t3 dungeons without wasting energy on revives. I like the convenience of the additions to the token vendor. I feel some items should be rare drop only. Discuss.
Tokens...
Tue, 04/19/2011 - 17:31
Tue, 04/19/2011 - 17:50
#2
Exception
With the exception of anything you can buy with Primal Sparks it really isn't a problem.
Tue, 04/19/2011 - 21:21
#3
I agree
I agree with OP. Some drops should remain just drops. My biggest incentive to get to T3 was to farm Philoso feathers, and now that you can buy them from Brinks they might not be worth my time anymore.
Tue, 04/19/2011 - 21:24
#4
I can still get Philoso
I can still get Philoso feathers faster in T3 than by tokens.
Plus, I'd rather spend my grim spark tokens on Trojan horse shoes than feathers anyway.
Wed, 04/20/2011 - 01:54
#5
I have to back OP, I also
I have to back OP, I also feel that if an item is "TOO" hard to find(horseshoe before patch) it should be tweaked and rebalanced but putting everything up on the vendor(Carapace,Philoso,Horseshoe,etc) just literally kills the market.Anybody selling common materials can tell you how hard it is to make a consistent profit sometimes without trying to undercut everybody significantly because EVERYBODY is selling materials.We need rare drops that will consistently sell to maintain a healthy economy.
Because as it is, the longer the game goes on/more players join, the less materials will be worth parallel to this the CE prices will also raise.It becomes a Vicious Circle.
Wed, 04/20/2011 - 03:14
#6
Deal with it? The first 2
Deal with it? The first 2 weeks the game was out everyone was getting a mixed bag. There have been 2 gates that either gave a huge amount of forge tokens or a huge amount of grim tokens in that time until now. It's just your bad luck if you didn't take advantage of it.
Wed, 04/20/2011 - 04:44
#7
Way to completely miss the
Way to completely miss the point, Ezzi.
Wed, 04/20/2011 - 06:08
#8
"Materials should be harder
"Materials should be harder to get so I can make more money" is exactly what this thread is.
There are about twenty other ways to make huge money in this game aside from selling "rare" materials for extremely unreasonable prices. Figure them out, instead of crying about the devs trying to make it easier for people to gear up. Philoso Feather's drop rate was never remotely reasonable, and neither was Trojan Horseshoe's or Critter Carapace's. Grim Sparks are still extremely hard to come by relative to Primals, and even then, Philoso Feathers cost 20 - no small amount for any player.
Wed, 04/20/2011 - 06:24
#9
I wouldn't consider spending
I wouldn't consider spending my precious tokens on anything but trinkets until I have one of each 5-star trinket, and possibly 2 of each if you're allowed to equip copies. Those, to my knowledge, can't be obtained anywhere else unlike the materials. I'm gutted that I didn't buy some when they were only 40 each though!
I relish challenges, so I'd agree with the OP in making mats harder to obtain. However I understand why it was done and I reckon most of the playerbase will likely be glad that they're easier to get hold of.
Wed, 04/20/2011 - 06:25
#10
I agree with Hazel. It takes
I agree with Hazel. It takes many runs to get enough tokens to buy one of the rare items. It doesn't really drive prices down fast enough to be an issue.
Wed, 04/20/2011 - 07:12
#11
> Find Philoso Feather
> You
> Find Philoso Feather
> You just made 1200 Crystal Energy
I wonder why Three Rings could have a problem with this.
Wed, 04/20/2011 - 11:09
#12
Really....
Wanting items to be harder to obtain just so you can make more money is a very weak argument.
The market is already full of people trying to rip you off every chance they get. It does not need to be any worse.
Also, selling materials should not be the only way to make money in this game and it is not. If it was, it would really ruin the game.
Also, this game relays a lot on being in parties for the later tiers. Grated you need to solo a lot for your mats but it is going to be a pain. So what happens when there are 4 people and only ONE person gets that ONE rare mat through the whole tier? You get the picture.
Then we have the fact that the gates are always out of control. What happens if the type of dungeon you need never spawns on the right floors for weeks? Guess you can't farm that item then.
Finally, upgrading to tier 2 or tier 3 equipment requires items that are far too rare for their own good at the lower level tiers you have to farm them at. Remember back in the day when you REALLY needed iron gears? No problem at tier 2 but too bad you can't get to tier 2 until you have the gear for it. Or how about, a meteor mote, Miracloth, or Mug of Misery? Good luck getting a ton of those on tier 2. Too bad you can't run tier 3 yet where there is an abundance of it.
Due to these reasons and the rarity of these items it is helpful that they put an alternative for players that play the game for ages and still are unable to get that one rare drop they need. The tokens do not spawn nearly enough to make this an issue for low level tier players to cash in on rare materials. I'd like to see how long it takes a tier one player to buy just one shadowsteel. IN fact...why would they? If they have enough tokens to level up their items, they are going to. If someone would rather save their tokens for only epic mats to sell for more game time.....they are going to get bored very quickly. So why would they?
I don't want to sound rude but the token system is something I really enjoy and am glade it is there for those few items I am missing while making a recipe.
Wed, 04/20/2011 - 08:19
#13
You made me login and post.
Let's run this through the chipper machine.
The game does not rely on having a group for Tier 2 or 3. Granted, if you do mess up you will have to revive yourself using energy instead of relying on a buddy to pick you up. However, if you're careful you can easily make it through to the end of T2 and T3 completely flying solo in non-optimal equipment. I've done it in any number of occasions. And hey, who knows how the developers modify the current drop tables to accommodate groups? They may have already taken that into account and made sure each person in a group gets at least one rare material in a run. Or they may not. *shrugs*
Gates are *not* out of control. The devs have been fairly good in keeping the variety if the up and coming gates are all the same. And there was a push recently to get undead/fiend stratums for our latest or second latest gate which seemed to work out nicely. We do have some control over this which, yes, isn't the greatest against the masses of people autoselling their minerals for their crowns. So if you want a certain tier to have a certain stratum, make a ruckus on the forums and in the game!
Upgrading Tier 2 equipment maybe is a bit difficult. I don't know, I'm not part of that crowd. Thankfully, because there are other people--people who aren't trying to scam you out of your crowns--Tier 2 required materials aren't that hard to get a hold of now. And again, thankfully, for Tier 3 equipment those 4* materials required you only need 1 per equipment piece. Mix and match item sets and you won't be bogged down by having to get a large number of Miracloths for the entire Miracle set, for example. Or start trading your other, useless to you, 4* materials for the ones you need. Tier 3 seems to be paradise to you, but no: 4* materials do not drop like they were rain.
I agree on the token alternative being great. It allows a player to get that one material they are missing from the recipe so they can upgrade their item. It gets them into the higher end content quicker, making them money so that they are more willing to buy more expensive stuff (or alternative equipments to play around with!) from traders, such as whoever complained in this post. That's the argument you should be making.
Wed, 04/20/2011 - 08:53
#14
lets see here...i remember
lets see here...i remember trying to buy a philo feather a couple days ago and being asked to pay 30k for it. no, im sorry, even if i have the money i am not going to pay an overpriced price for 1 material just because you happen to have it.
now i can save up my grim sparks to get one. it will take me longer, but i'll essentially get it for free and i'll make crowns on the way to getting those grim sparks. it works out for me because i don't want to shell out a massive amount of crowns just to get my grey owlite shield TODAY instead of grind for it myself.
it gives a good option. pay for it now or grind for it later, except it isn't as impossible on either spectrum this way. i think its was/is a great change. and yes there are plenty of other ways to get crowns other than getting lucky as hell by getting a philo/trojan drop
Wed, 04/20/2011 - 09:24
#15
The game is fairly geared
The game is fairly geared toward casual players. In this, we see ME, an open market for CE, and the creation of the token system from the time of the Preview (where Primal, Forge, and Grim Sparks didn't exist). Because of these things, a player can hop on for his/her 100 ME per day, grind out T1/T2 for as much as they can, and eventually get the gear that will propel them further.
I find that giving the option of buying Philoso Feathers on an uncommon token (Primal Sparks need some more sinks or a drop in their drop rate) is pretty fair. We don't have a lot of Fiend/Undead lower stratums (still Beast heavy) so Grim/Forge Sparks are fairly rare. There are times when you can get lucky in a danger room or a Treasure Vault level, but for most players, we see collection of maybe 3-5 on a day's standard play.
For the people complaining about the price drop, remember that prices in this game are completely subjective. The perception alone of the value that this is a 20 GS material already "increases" the general populace value of the feather for people who may have sold one earlier for 16,000 crowns (and facepalmed after most undead T3 stratums went away).
Wed, 04/20/2011 - 11:50
#16
I do notice it is very
I do notice it is very possible to ruin Tier 2 and 3 by yourself. I run tier 2 by myself all the time. The downside is that it is a lot more frustrating than just running with a group. Furthermore, it makes me wonder why the heck I'm even playing the game if everyday I spend several hours just to play by myself. But you are right, I guess we can't count this as a main problem for not getting the items we want. If someone wants an item they can just play this game alone for several weeks and have most of what they need. Each to their own.
For over two weeks most of the tier 2 levels have been nothing but frost and beast. (It is changing now but I wouldn't be surprised if a similar pattern continues.) It started to get so ridiculous I started to consider a full frost armor set just for this. I can see that the developers are doing something about it and when a gate looks like it will be all one type, they quickly change it. For whatever reason though, I was not getting much variety in Tier 2. I guess my complaint isn't valid because I should be at tier 3 by now anyway. (This of course is assuming one doesn't try to farm the Jelly King which obviously will not have this issue.) The big issue is that there will not be the exact gate you need everyday on the exact floor numbers you want them on. There will still be a lot of repeat levels and some that you won't see very often.
This is true. Unlike five star gear, you don't need as many of the really rare items. Though it starts to stack up when upgrading everything you have and all four of your weapons. And what you think might be useless, you may need later down the road when making more than one set of gear. Mixing and matching with the best gear between checkpoints really helps.
I'm still iffy about selling anything to anyone I don't know in this game. I have had a lot of bad experiences but yes that is my problem then.
My reasons may not be a huge deal and we could all learn to bite the bullet, have no tokens, and what I say has no effect on anyone in this game except myself. I understand. I was just trying to come up with some valid points that somewhat hinder the process of farming these items besides their sheer rarity. Yes it helps get the items quicker. Everyone has said that and that is what is making the original poster upset. They don't want low level people getting the items or a way to get them quicker without buying from other players. So I had to come up with a few new arguments for the matter. If they are not valid points, I am very sorry if I offended you seeing as I forced you to log in and post this. As I said, I am not trying to sound rude and now I see it still did sound far too rude. Please forgive me.
Wed, 04/20/2011 - 15:14
#17
I've relogged for an answer!
I did not find your post rude so no apologies required. =)
You made some nice points and it was well written. However, it did not quite mesh with the game's reality. Your conclusion was true, but the reasoning leading up to it was weak. So I had to (stuff like this jumps out at me, can't help it) come in and post!
Keep rocking T2. Start small when selling, so you get used to it and get a feel for non-ripoff prices. =)
Wed, 04/20/2011 - 15:36
#18
Bit off topic
I already gave my opinion on the matter but I just want to add that I'm somewhat surprised at how offended people get over rare item prices. If everyone was selling a rare mat for 30k, it's not because they were trying to rip you off. It's because that was the market value of that item at that time. They were actually selling them for that much, they were worth 30k. If you don't want to spend 30k on a mat that's fine but there was more demand to back that up at the time than supply.
Wed, 04/20/2011 - 17:09
#19
Honestly people need to get
Honestly people need to get over being "ripped off" Philoso Feather was actuallly going for 50k+ at some point thats just how the market works and like I mentioned in the post Adjusting drop rates to make the items more obtainable is a good thing, destroying their market value ( see Critter Carapace) completely just makes the economy more unstable.
Just a quick note I do not make money out of materials ever, its just not my field its not that profitable
.People need to realize its not always about "YOU" the individual player.Sometimes its healthier for the game if you have to go through some pain to get the materials, a lot of the arguments where based on "Now you can't rip me off and I can get it myself easier now so its okay" thats an incorrect mindset to make decisions of what is good for a game.
For the comments on specific items, I think Philoso Feather is probably the more balanced one, 20 Grim sparks is still a hefty investment.
You really don't get tokens fast enough to make this a serious concern. By the time you could accumulate enough tokens to purchase one of these rare items, you could also have simply made it to tier 2. By the time you could purchase a couple more, you could make it to tier 3. It's not as much an issue as you think it is.