Spiral Knights - Gunner without Gunslinger armor

Gunner without Gunslinger armor

21 replies [Last post]

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 15:31

Alynn

Im thinking of becoming a gunner but I don't really like the gunslinger armors. Since im fine with the reload time from all my guns, I dont need much ASI for guns, and if i do, il can use my swiftstrike buckler. I mainly use 3 shot guns, with the exception of my strike needle, so i just shoot twice, wait a bit, then shoot twice again.

Right now I have 2 options:

Options 1: go hybrid

I get 1 piece of gunslinger armor, and mix it some other armor (im thinking divine veil)
This way, I can get some ASI bonus for better recovery from my Strike needle, and I can reload a bit faster

Option 2: No gunslinger armor at all

I dont use any gunslinger armor, so I don't get any ASI bonus. I get some other armor that has a general buff, like Fallen, Divine, or just my vog.
This way, I have normal reloading speed, which isnt much of a problem, but I get really good defense and stat resists.

I will be using:

slot 1: BioHaz
slot 2: Polaris/Storm Driver
slot 3: Blitz Needle
slot 4: Bomb/Sword

Which setup would be the best for NON-SOLO T3 loadout?

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 15:45

Otaia

Mm, the best setup would be

Mm, the best setup would be to use full gunslinger, specifically Nameless. The ASI does make quite a big difference. So obviously, having one piece of gunslinger would be better than not having any at all. If you would rather forgo that other piece of Nameless, well, you seem to already know what your other options are.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 15:58

Alynn

ASI

How big of an impact would ASI VH make? for gunners, it would make them load faster, but thats about it. If I always leave 1 bullet in the gun and shoot that way, wouldnt the overall DPS be roughly equal? I know it helps alot for Blitz users, but I only use my Blitz's charge against Trojans, Vana, and other SLOW enemies so reloading isnt a problem.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:33

Zekrypteox

Here's my ideas...

~~For some hybrid sets:

#1 - Divine Veil w/ Justifier Jacket (My setup)
With this setup, you get defense for all 4 types of damage, a med. handgun ASI, fire/shock/curse resist, AND a med. damage bonus against Fiends.

#2 - Crown of the Fallen w/ Justifier Jacket or Nameless Poncho
With this setup, you get either normal/shadow/piercing (from Justifier) or normal/shadow/elemental (from Nameless), low ASI for your bomb/sword, total high ASI for your guns (Fallen gives general low/Justifier & Nameless give med. to guns), poison/fire resist, curse weakness (only a concern with Phantoms/Faust line), and a med. damage penalty against Fiends.

#3 - Vog Cub Cap w/ Justifier Jacket
With this setup, you get normal/elemental/piercing defense, med. handgun ASI, med. sword ASI, and fire resist.

~~And for non-Gunslinger sets:

#1 - Divine Veil w/ Royal Jelly Mail, Mercurial Mail, Ironmight Plate Mail, or Skolver Coat
With these setups, you get defense for all 4 types of damage, fire/shock/curse resist, and either: stun/sleep resist (Royal Jelly); more shock resist & low movement speed increase (Mercurial); max normal defense, stun resist, sleep weakness, & low attack speed decrease (Ironmight); OR freeze resist & med. sword damage bonus.

#2 - Divine Veil w/ Armor of the Fallen
With this setup, you get normal/elemental/shadow defense, neutral damage to Fiends, neutral curse resist, poison/fire/shock resist, AND general low ASI.

#3 - Divine Veil/Crown of the Fallen w/ Vog Cub Coat
With this setup, you get normal/elemental/shadow defense, med. sword ASI, fire resist, and either: shock/curse/more fire resist, med. damage bonus against Fiends; OR poison/more fire resist, curse weakness, general low ASI, high sword ASI (Vog Cub gives med. to swords/Fallen gives general low), & med. damage penalty against Fiends.

~And for your sword/bomb:
Sword: Any Brandish (can deal elemental or shadow), Leviathan Blade (deals normal, good backup), Sudaruska (deals normal, can stun w/ charge).

Bomb: Nitronome (deals normal, biggest blast), Shivermist Buster (deals elemental, can freeze), Radiant Sun Shards (deals split elemental/piercing, high damage bonus against Fiends).

If you intend on using both the Polaris and Biohazard, I recommend a hybrid setup, as ASI for guns increases projectile speed and rate-of-fire (note, however, ASI does NOT decrease the reload time).

Hope I helped!

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:47

The-Rawrcake

For gunners, ASI very high

For gunners, ASI very high makes a noticable and big difference.

And also I would not focus on our reload times.

The tactic of shooting we will do most often is called shoot-pause. You shoot > pause > shoot > pause > shoot (or shield cancel during pauses). This way, you never have to reload and risk being unable to shield quickly.

Unload-reload is shooting off your entire clip. We don't have the data to compare shoot-pause and unload-reload's DPS, so it is safe to stick with shoot-pause for most DPS situations.

There are burst situations where you will want to use unload-reload however. One example, you know a darkfang mender needs only 2 hits left from your Umbra. Shoot the two bullets off quick so it can die before it bubbles.

Another example of unload-reload being best is a mecha knight. Let it shield a bullet, then you unload-reload to get the most possible bullets on it before it shields again.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:47

Alynn

@Zekrypteox
oh ya ASI also increase rate of fire, but projectile speed? I dont think it increases the bullet speed does it?
I was thinking of going divine veil + armor of fallen, but now im also considering divine/fallen + nameless. I still havnt found the ASI on gun to be that useful yet, so im still unsure if it'l help alot.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:50

The-Rawrcake

ASI does not increase

ASI does not increase projectile velocity.

ASI makes a difference in fire rate and reload speed.

ASI helps survivability and DPS, though gun damage bonus may prove more useful for DPS. That still needs testing however.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 17:10

Nicoya-Kitty

ASI makes a fantastic

ASI makes a fantastic improvement on mobility when using an autogun line weapon. You can experiment by equipping a swiftstrike shield, which is honestly a good piece of equipment for anyone to have.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 17:14

Alynn

ASI

Yes, I realize how important ASI is for my Blitz because it significantly reduce reload and improve reation time, but I still cant tell how it helps with other guns. especially, since I dont spend the whole clip, and i avoid reloading

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 18:24

The-Rawrcake

You really will not be able

You really will not be able to tell until you can compare very high to not very high.

In other words, when you get very high, you will notice then.

If you get used to it now, you can live with it because you don't know how very high feels.

Once you know how Very High feels, you will always want very high.

The bad thing about skipping ASI is that someone might not have any ASI then complain about guns being bad survivability... how would we know that he or she was not using optimal gear that makes a difference?

Personally, I require maximum on my alchemers (achieved by ASI UVs).... it feels so weird when I take off all my ASI gear. With my non-ASI uv'd alchemer.

But my Callahan and Polaris. They do not have an ASI UV, and I don't even know what maximum feels like with them. So it doesn't bother me.

See what I am saying? I would definately get gunslinger armor.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 19:06

#10

Alynn

would these work?

Fallen + Nameless + Swiftstrike = MAX ASI
Fallen + Divine Veil + Swiftstrike = VH ASI

I REAAAAAAAAAAALY hate how the gunslinger stuff dont offer any stat resist (except deadshot but curse isnt helpful) and I run FSC for most of my money so fire resist is a must for me. I also want some shadow def cause swiftstrike isnt that good at blocking, and when i do get hit, I want to minimize the dmg taken.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 19:22

#11

Demonicsothe

As a gunner, you shouldn't be

As a gunner, you shouldn't be close enough to tank multiple zombie swipes. One or two, yes, but any other shield can do that. Get an owlite, the 4* is decent, the 5* is great. Has enough health to tank a trojan smash, but if those are really bothering you, get a volcanic plate shield. Fire resist is not a must, just useful. Don't run into fire pits/shadow fire, and the occasional slag breath won't kill you if you got more than 11bars of health.

As long as you practice and focus on dodging hits and shieldbumping, offensive armour is a better alternative to defensive. Drop the biohazard, as it is not useful in FSC. The occasional slime won't be around for long enough to stack charges, or even shoot at. If you switch it with another sword, your vog will see much more use.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 19:36

#12

Alynn

@Demonicsothe

Im using Swiftstrike buckler (SSB), and I dont tank any zombies. But I will need to block off occasional attacks and that thing breaks in 1-2 hits and Im defenseless until it fully regenerates.

occasional fire is a disaster for someone without any fire resist. Im bound to get set on fire sooner or later, cause im not pro enough to walk through FSC unscratched. "Occasional slag breath wont kill you if u got mroe than 11 hp" ya.....so.......getting set on fire without fire resist means taking 11 bars of dmg? makes me want to have fire resist even more >.<

I never said im bringing my biohaz into FSC. Its part of my gunslinger set. I listed for reference.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 19:51

#13

Otaia

Fallen/Nameless isn't bad.

Fallen/Nameless isn't bad. Though honestly, I don't think Fire resistance is that big of a deal in FSC, and one of the main reasons I neglect to get any Fire resistance on my gear is because I use a Crest of Almire. It completely negates all damage from slag breaths and takes a lot of swipes without breaking. I'm not that great at the game and I rarely get set on Fire. Also, the fire itself doesn't actually do 11 bars of damage, some of that comes from the initial hit.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 20:05

#14

Zekrypteox

hmm...

@The-Rawrcake: It seems we have either differing opinions, or differing sources of information. To be sure, though, I just checked the wiki, and it seems that you are right about the reload time reduction. I can tell you from personal experience, though, that ASI does increase projectile speed (I tested my Gunslinger Sash in combination with my Swiftstrike Buckler, and both my Master Blaster and Polaris had noticeable projectile speed increase). So it seems that we're both right!

@Alynn: Oh, your an FSC runner? Well then, I suggest that you use your Fallen/Divine/Swiftstrike combo, since the fire resist will come in very handy. If you can use a trinket, you could get an Elite Quick Draw Module to get you that max ASI.
Also, for your 4th weapon, I would now suggest Divine Avenger (elemental, useful on the Undeads), Leviathan Blade (normal, useful on Vanaduke), Radiant Sun Shards (split elemental/piercing, useful on the Undeads and Trojans), or Shivermist Buster (elemental, can freeze everything, even Vanaduke).

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 20:22

#15

Alynn

hmm

@Zekrypteox
maybe the ASI on guns got stealth patched to make the bullets go faster
I need to test this out with my guns to make sure, but I know that gun ASI didn't affect bullet speed before. If it does, im definitely going for ASI MAX.

@otaia

I lag. a lot. very very badly.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 20:30

#16

Zekrypteox

Well, if you find out that

Well, if you find out that ASI doesn't affect bullet speed, then I will have learned something new! If it does, then that's good news for gunners everywhere! So its a win-win situation!

P.S. I feel for your lag situation, I hate getting lag-killed. Have you tried turning down the graphics details? I went down from high to medium, and now I have a greatly increased lifespan.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 20:33

#17

Alynn

@Zekrypteox

I just tested my proto gun, GW Pulsar, and Biohaz in training hall with Swiftstrike buckler, and without SSW.
Bullets travel at the same speed, but with ASI High, I reload faster and can fire faster. But ASi does NOT affect bullet speed

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 20:38

#18

Demonicsothe

I said 11 bars because when I

I said 11 bars because when I did fsc in half 4* armour, I was set on fire and survived. Take the owlite shield, it's a great all rounder for fsc.

Here's a tip, if you get caught in a slag breath and set on fire, don't run out. Let your shield continue to block the breath. If you do that, the fire status will tick down, but not deal damage. You can literally take only 2 ticks of fire damage this way.

If you see zombies swiping you, run at them and shield bump. That way, your shield won't take damage. Won't be the most effective in all situations, just something else you can do with a swiftstrike.

Occasional fire hurts, I would know. I'm currently running fsc and vana with ashtails and asi trinkets. No fire resist on anything besides my shield.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 20:52

#19

Juances

About fallen + Veil combo:
Divine veil would remove fiend penalty, but it doesnt have any defense against trojans/slimes/wheels.

Vog offers same fire/elemental resist with normal defense wich works on zombies AND trojans/slimes/wheels, unlike the shadow defense from divine, but you'll end up with less damage vs fiends and a useless sword bonus.

Now tell me if the dangers of getting hit because of lag justify being weaker against trojans.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 21:09

#20

Zekrypteox

Well then...

@Alynn: I guess I've learned something new! So its still a win!

@Juances: I see your point about the Trojans, but they're still fiends, which means the damage penalty would make it take longer to kill them. Although survival is key, especially with lag. I'd still recommend the Divine Veil, though.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 21:37

#21

The-Rawrcake

It hasn't been proven that

It hasn't been proven that ASI affects bullets speed. You could have, say, upgraded your blaster from 3* to 4* and had a projectile velocity increase.

Bullet speeds only increase when the gun is upgraded.

But either way, we cannot solve this any other way. Both my Hail and Umbra hit ASI: Maximum! with nameless or my justifier + medium / high ASI UV So I will use my Nova driver without any ASI and see what happens.

brb!

Ok results are in. ASI has no effect whatsoever on projectile velocity from a maximum to nothing comparison, it wasn't even arguable from my observation.

Also, for FSC, just get Nameless. Armor doesn't make too big of a difference once you learn the place. Elemental because zombies are way too easy to avoid even with my lag... Vanaduke is the real threat. The mask phase. Having no fire isn't too big of a deal, make sure you've got those remedies and transport remedies as well as pills incase you are getting him.

ASI help you move and avoid stuff.

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Gunner without Gunslinger armor