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Genders

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Lun, 02/06/2012 - 01:58
Imagen de Toxicblade
Toxicblade

Hey, just wanted to post my idea of having genders for our knights. We could pick them at the start of the game when we make our knights, and it would add a distinctly male/female look to our knights, instead of the current armor, some of which look male, others female. ( Emberbreak Line, That other line whose name I can't remember ((-.-)) and others)

I would like this so we can have better fashion choices on our knights looks, and not have a guy looking body with a head with pigtails, because they match colors nicely.

I know this would create a ton of work for Three Rings, but in the end I think it will be worth it. Somehow. In some strange way.

Any criticism/support/flaming/threats? Just post em here. Yes here. Not on 4chan, no.

Lun, 02/06/2012 - 02:15
#1
Imagen de Darkbrady
Darkbrady
I kinda agree. It's nice

I kinda agree. It's nice that they have included some gear for male/fem, but it also leads down the path of denying players the choice of usin' that as a fashion; the Fallen/Valkyrie sets look quite cool, but are inarguably fem. Same with Emberbreak. S'not so bad for fems, who can just pick whichever and get away with it, but I doubt they like havin' people assume they're males just becasue they don't have fem fashions on; my girl always keeps worryin' about tryin' to keep fashions that fit one of the..iunno, two or three hats she has.

Maybe not even a "pick at the start" one, could even just be an option at Bechamel or a new NPC next to her, just givin' you the option to "feminise/manise" your gear or your character in some fashion. New gold/ce sink, anyone?

Lun, 02/06/2012 - 02:19
#2
Imagen de Tsubasa-No-Me
Tsubasa-No-Me
Uhhh... +1!?!

... as a "Fem" I would REALLY like to be able to wear what ever armor i want, instead of like, two and one loaded with accessorys that cost the same as 5* rec... -.-

~Tsu

Lun, 02/06/2012 - 02:23
#3
Imagen de Metagenic
Metagenic
Um

It would just be misleading, look at Mass Effect. 90% of the playerbase are males with female characters.

And then there would be the problem of immature boys looking for girl players to hit on.

Lun, 02/06/2012 - 02:30
#4
Imagen de Diabound
Diabound
If you go to general in the

If you go to general in the topic asking about Bechamel's gender, the admins say something about not believing in genders or something like that, so... I don't think it's going to happen.

Lun, 02/06/2012 - 02:31
#5
Imagen de Imperialstriker
Imperialstriker
~

@Metagenic: I think I'll scare them off with some transgenderedness. :D

Lun, 02/06/2012 - 02:34
#6
Imagen de Toxicblade
Toxicblade
Eh

Yeah, I guess it would be better if when viewing our knights ( tab ) there could be an option to change gender. And I dont mean a whole new set of armor, you know. Just the graphics. So when you change gender it would change your graphics, nothing more. Or maybe girls could have slightly better elemental defense/speed and guys have slightly better defense/attack but that would be difficult and unbalanced.

Lun, 02/06/2012 - 02:39
#7
Imagen de Toxicblade
Toxicblade
But

This probably wont be Implemented though because it's a snipeload of work, with no probable significant gain for the company. Unless its priced high on ce/cr. New sinkhole for CE and our Crowns!!!1111!!!one!11!11!!!! :D

Lun, 02/06/2012 - 02:40
#8
Imagen de Toxicblade
Toxicblade
Uh...

I should probably stop posting now. Right?

Lun, 02/06/2012 - 02:43
#9
Imagen de Toxicblade
Toxicblade
Should I

I should shouldn't I?

Lun, 02/06/2012 - 02:52
#10
Imagen de Oblivion
Oblivion
+1

I think I like the idea :D Though yes it will take a lot of work.

Lun, 02/06/2012 - 03:05
#11
Imagen de Psychodestroyer
Psychodestroyer
Yeah

It'll take a lot of work, but I wouldn't mind this.

Besides, just about everyone assumes all spiral-tailed helm and similar lookalike helm wearers are all girls anyway (sorry for the stereotype), so immature boys trying to get some is already happening.

Why that happens is beyond me. I'd just like it so I have a better chance of not calling a dudette a dude.

Although I may as well bring up that it had been discussed before that there will probably be an addition of sexism to the game, some 'immature boys' finding a 'girl' player (actual or not) in their team and discriminating them just because they don't want a girl on their team, and (less likely, but) vice versa.

Discuss?

Lun, 02/06/2012 - 03:34
#12
Imagen de Uuni
Uuni
IMO the greatest thing about

IMO the greatest thing about the concept of this game is the unisex gender characters. No stereotypical female chest plates or anything, just neutral environment suitable for all ages

Lun, 02/06/2012 - 03:38
#13
Imagen de Tsubasa-No-Me
Tsubasa-No-Me
Well...

We don't need gigantic anime BOULDERS! ... just something to distinguish us... -.-

~Tsu

Lun, 02/06/2012 - 03:50
#14
Imagen de Hexzyle
Hexzyle
So kinda like the tails from

So kinda like the tails from the tailed helm to be added free to helms for girls, and removed from emberbreak for guys, or perhaps the shape of the eyes changed.

Lun, 02/06/2012 - 04:03
#15
Imagen de Tsubasa-No-Me
Tsubasa-No-Me
AH!

The eyes would be a nice change... it may not be to noticeable... but when you inspect... i think this is one of the pieces...

~Tsu

Lun, 02/06/2012 - 04:04
#16
Imagen de Toxicblade
Toxicblade
I think

That girls could have skinnier frames/whatever and maybe some gear could be heaps different from other gear, like wolver gear. Guys could keep the trenchcoat thing and for girls they could have a skirt/dress or something. I'm not saying they should be sexed up. Just something to distinguish genders.

Lun, 02/06/2012 - 04:09
#17
Imagen de Uuni
Uuni
Different eyes would be

Different eyes would be great, also double plumes for some helmets as on/off option would be sweet

Lun, 02/06/2012 - 04:12
#18
Imagen de Toxicblade
Toxicblade
Also

Don't some bodies have breasts already? (Said that formally to not sound like a horny 12 y/o. No offense, non horny 12 y/o)

http://media.spiralknights.com/wiki-images/0/0b/Spiral_Culet-Equipped.png

and

http://media.spiralknights.com/wiki-images/e/e9/Spiral_Scale_Mail-Equipp...

Lun, 02/06/2012 - 08:14
#19
Imagen de Psychodestroyer
Psychodestroyer
....T^T

Yup, it's official, someone just called out my costume as having a bra shape T^T

Spiral Sallet, y u make me look like girl? (Not that I have anything against girls...)

Lun, 02/06/2012 - 08:29
#20
Imagen de Alpha-Stevo
Alpha-Stevo
Considering how hard it'd be

Considering how hard it'd be to make separate models, I think a new eye style would be MUCH much easier. If I'm able to make new eye textures and can use them, I don't see how hard it'd be for OOO to do the same.

So +1 on new eyes to make ladyfolk happy.

Lun, 02/06/2012 - 08:41
#21
Imagen de Darkbrady
Darkbrady
But aye, "not believing in

But aye, "not believing in genders" is one thing, and wantin' to keep sexism out and neutrality in is fine, but fact of the matter is that the characters and world are driven by people who do have genders, and it's never that great to call someone a dude them have them inform you that they's not so much. The lassies don't like it and the guys don't like doin' it, and no guy really likes not havin' the option to wear "fem gear" either. If they wanted to keep neutrality, they shouldn't have introduced SOME fem gear, and should have just left it at point blank. Wouldn't be too hard to even just introduce a simple wee option to turn on/off a ponytail or pigtails or somethin' on the helmets.

@Tsu:

You're fem? I never knew that o.o
...
POINT AND CASE! D:

Lun, 02/06/2012 - 14:56
#22
Imagen de Zephyrgon
Zephyrgon
One question

WHY??? I agree that this is kewl, but still...

Lun, 02/06/2012 - 21:13
#23
Imagen de Nova-Royal
Nova-Royal
maybe give a costume for guy

maybe give a costume for guy and for girl, maybe have a set of ''proto'' costume at character creation. and then have a buyable set( like other costumes)

Mar, 02/07/2012 - 03:58
#24
Imagen de Metagenic
Metagenic
I personally prefer gender ambiguity

What would be a practical reason for this? First off, Spiral Knights isn't a role-playing game. Second, I don't want to give my fellow teenagers another reason to be immature. Like if you were a girl and made it obvious through a gender feature that you were a girl, you'd then have to deal with loads of idiots trying to ask you out.

Mar, 02/07/2012 - 08:20
#25
Sabaal
No offense, but...

If a player is both dressing and behaving ambiguously enough that you can't tell whether they're male or female, why does it matter? If, for some reason, a person wants others to know their gender, it's easy enough to advertise; I prefer having the option to NOT.

HOWEVER!

The problem that your idea illustrates is still an important one: for players who would like to visually distinguish themselves as male or female, the more subtle choices can get expensive. Perhaps some dirt-cheap accessories or the like for things like eye shape, etc?

...

*Shrug.*

Mar, 02/07/2012 - 09:04
#26
Imagen de Nodocchi
Nodocchi
Instead of having OOO double

Instead of having OOO double the amount of armour looks to fit both sexes how about this? Accept the fact that in all games, males and females are going to have different fashions. Some of these costumes in Spiral Knights are meant for males and some are meant for females. There is no need to give an explicit option for players to advertise their gender, what we already have is more than enough. In other games you are locked in what you can wear based on the gender you pick, just think of Spiral Knights as giving you the option to wear whatever you want regardless of your gender.

Mar, 02/07/2012 - 10:28
#27
Imagen de Heimdallr
Heimdallr
---

Considering how hard it'd be to make separate models, I think a new eye style would be MUCH much easier.

+1. Optional eye textures to distinguish gender would be more efficient, and much less time-consuming than making an extra set of models for almost every armor set in the game.

Mar, 02/07/2012 - 10:34
#28
Imagen de Blue-Phaze
Blue-Phaze
Considering how hard it'd be

Considering how hard it'd be to make separate models, I think a new eye style would be MUCH much easier.

+1 as well.
Currently, eyes are just circles, what gives knights a neutral look. A simple option to add eyelashes or whatever would be nice.
It'd be great if someone could come up with an artwork of a new eye texture.

Mar, 02/07/2012 - 11:27
#29
Imagen de Thimol
Thimol
-----

I think this was brought up once before. Probably just having "GENDER: (FE)MALE" in the character inspect would be enough.

Mar, 02/07/2012 - 11:58
#30
Imagen de Blue-Phaze
Blue-Phaze
@Thimol Some people like to

@Thimol
Some people like to 'visually distinguish themselves as male or female'.

Mar, 02/07/2012 - 15:11
#31
Imagen de Darkbrady
Darkbrady
@Meta:First off, Spiral

@Meta:
First off, Spiral Knights isn't a role-playing game

Spiral Knights actually is an RPG.

@Thimol:
Aye, it's one thing to find out if you're actively lookin', but the mentality goes beyond that. Eyes probably would be easier to implement. Hell, even just some femmy eyelashes above would about cover it; even the "eyeless" helms like Jelly have a faint image of eyes behind them.

Beyond that, I think the simplest solution would actually be just to remove the fem-armours and replace them with other completely generic models. That way they can openly say that SK is totally genderless, no male/fems, everythin' is unisex. Currently they have "unisex" (i.e, male) armours, and distinctively female armour, which immediately segregates the community into "fems wear this, guys don't" which keeps males away from those armours and encourages most fems to wear that armour, of which there is far fewer.

Mar, 02/07/2012 - 22:45
#32
Imagen de Mejezfeld
Mejezfeld
-1 to this suggestion because

-1 to this suggestion because I'm fine with the Knights as the way they are... however it is they really are

last two MMOs I ever played were heavy as heck on character customization (lots of body, hair, and face options) so it was sort of a relief SK only gets three helmets three armors and 24 colors for our starting and we can wear pretty much anything.

...Though I find it odd though that we have to wait till we can get 3* armors until we can get a single ponytail helmet but we can get a pigtails helmet at starting. But that's not exactly relevant here.

Mié, 02/08/2012 - 06:52
#33
Imagen de Metagenic
Metagenic
@Darkbrady

Not trying to shoot down your post, but look at Spiral Knights's non-RPG-ness:

- No preselected character classes (your "class" is based on your favorite weapon type and you can change between swordsman, bomber, and gunner anytime you want)

- No quests as of now (I know those are coming later, but that's beside the point)

- No experience points

- No difference between good or evil or whatever

What's the point of gender selection if there isn't really much roleplaying in this game?

Mié, 02/08/2012 - 14:26
#34
Imagen de Blue-Phaze
Blue-Phaze
@Metagenic "What's the point

@Metagenic
"What's the point of gender selection if there isn't really much roleplaying in this game?"
It doesn't matter if SK's an RPG or not, we are asking for genders for the sake of customization.
Do you think only RPGs have gender selection? hell, no. Shooting games, sports games, action, adventure, whatever; any of them could have gender selection simply because it is nice to have an extra option to add to your character.

Mié, 02/08/2012 - 14:43
#35
Imagen de Iyashi
Iyashi
I agree with gender specified

I agree with gender specified characters, but don't limit there choice in items, Allow a knight to have a Male, Female, or Unspecified (default) gender, and simply change the model data to look more girl or guy, changing muscles, size, curves, poses ect. Most importantly let old players change gender so we're not all forced to make new players, either a 1 time free change or a paid service.

Mié, 02/08/2012 - 15:40
#36
Imagen de Thimol
Thimol
-----

Some people like to 'visually distinguish themselves as male or female'.

From a purely visual standpoint, I'd like to customize my character, but I just have this feeling that once it's introduced, I just feel as if a huge chunk of the playerbase would start asking to have even more options in customizing appearance, for different genders and species, possibly even for orientation.

Eyes probably would be easier to implement.

Probably, but the eyes should be implemented sometime in the future anyway (though for some reason, I'm not hearing anything on it from the devs).

Mié, 02/08/2012 - 15:52
#37
Imagen de Iron-Volvametal
Iron-Volvametal
...

I actually Suggested something about Eyes. I'll try to Dig Around to see if I can find it.

EDIT: Found it.

Mié, 02/08/2012 - 16:22
#38
Imagen de Blue-Phaze
Blue-Phaze
Nice, Iron! I never really

Nice, Iron! I never really noticed that forum avatars have different eyes from those in-game.
That just sucks, why would OOO remove them? They look too awesome to be left out.

Mié, 02/08/2012 - 21:11
#39
Imagen de Psychodestroyer
Psychodestroyer
?

They were never removed, just never implemented.

+1 to eyes thingy.

Mié, 02/08/2012 - 21:59
#40
Imagen de Wuvvums
Wuvvums
"That girls could have

"That girls could have skinnier frames/whatever and maybe some gear could be heaps different from other gear, like wolver gear."

If they do implement gender, PLEASE don't do this. As if girls aren't bombarded enough with skinny being the ideal look for females. They are thin to begin with.

Honestly I don't think genders need to be defined other than by fashion. And even then it's not the end of the world if people mistake your gender. I get seen as a guy all the time, and when I am not seen as a guy someone's hitting on me -_-;

I think I would enjoy some more body types but I can understand if they don't do this. Why? Because I don't think there's a definite body model. All of it is based off the armor, so they would have to redo a second set of armor for every set of armor just to get a gendered look. It's not like WoW where the armor is pulled over a preset body frame. :s

Mié, 02/08/2012 - 22:00
#41
Imagen de Wuvvums
Wuvvums
Also +1 to the eyes thingy.

Also +1 to the eyes thingy. They're really cute.

Jue, 02/09/2012 - 02:13
#42
Imagen de Toxicblade
Toxicblade
I agree

The eyes would be easier, though you know, wuvvums, girls having skinnier frames than guys isnt sexist/idealist/whatever. They actually do have skinnier frames.

Jue, 02/09/2012 - 04:01
#43
Imagen de Shue-Donnym
Shue-Donnym
Wat

If I remember correctly, male/female armor models were suggested before. I think one of the earlier posts I remembered went like this:

(Y)
Bewbs

Surprising how the community has changed since then.

IMO just the eyes should work fine.

Jue, 02/09/2012 - 04:16
#44
Imagen de Mejezfeld
Mejezfeld
Actually

No no no, if you actually look at an anatomy textbook or a real person you will notice that the truth is on average guys have wider shoulders and narrower bottoms (and a less rounded shape overall) while girls have larger bottoms owing to have to push babies out of them if they ever decided to have them.

This "girls are slimmer/skinnier" thing is nonsense who even came up with that.

Jue, 02/09/2012 - 04:21
#45
Imagen de Severage
Severage
@Mejezfeld:

lol Bro...you really didn't have to go into details. Just saying.

Girls are naturally slimmer/skinnier due to lack of natural hormones which increase muscle mass, which makes for less of an overall build. I don't think anyone ever said they were skinnier, except for people on this forum, but they naturally lack more muscle mass than most dudes, giving them a smaller build.

Now...I don't know why I just posted that...but I did.

~Sev

Jue, 02/09/2012 - 05:12
#46
Imagen de Mejezfeld
Mejezfeld
"I don't think anyone ever

"I don't think anyone ever said they were skinnier"

Toxicblade is insisting on it. And you just did too.

No dude I'm not saying anything that would be considered as too much detail unless you've never seen a human body before.

Also... ever seen a "Venus Figurine"?

Jue, 02/09/2012 - 05:19
#47
Imagen de Tsubasa-No-Me
Tsubasa-No-Me
...

Have you considered that the Knights are not human?...

~Tsu, a lover of aliens.

Jue, 02/09/2012 - 05:29
#48
Imagen de Mejezfeld
Mejezfeld
I have

However the probability of bipedal life-forms that look even remotely like humans evolving elsewhere is so ridiculously low I discarded the idea that they weren't human/built by humans and thus granted similar traits/related to humans.

It would be more likely for the Knights to be three-legged blood-spitting crater-dwelling arthropods who have carapaces branded with genetically determined patterns/images akin to a Care Bear's sign or a Pony's cutie mark than to be "non humans that manage to look human in spite of the low probability of this happening".

The better, simpler, non-overanalyzing explanation is that the Knights are human or really similar to humans because the players and the game devs are human.

Jue, 02/09/2012 - 05:42
#49
Imagen de Tsubasa-No-Me
Tsubasa-No-Me
Yeah, I know...

But a girl can dream! :3

~Tsu, Still a lover of aliens.

Jue, 02/09/2012 - 05:44
#50
Imagen de Wuvvums
Wuvvums
Your argument is that men are

Your argument is that men are more muscled, therefore girls should be built smaller. This doesn't mean that they need to be made "skinnier." Look at your damn knight. It's very slim to begin with. Make it anymore skinnier and you suddenly have a winx character or a Monster High girl. This doesn't send out any positive messages that this is how a girl -should- look by an MMO.

And as others said women tend to have wider hips. It even shows in the skeletal structure. If anything if you wanted to should a female body type then you'd probably want to make her a little wider in fact.

I do happen to be a lover of the thick hour-glass body type. But I also think that if they were going to aim for a female body type, they should aim for average.

By the way: My boyfriend wore the divine set with his royal jelly crown for a while. Men can like.. wear robes and stuff. I know it's not a very manly set but I don't see the divine as explicitly for girls.

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