Subject says it all: Allow us to wear a third trinket instead of a shield!
This would be...
- Easy to make I guess.
- Something aimed mostly at more experienced players.
- The perfect excuse to run around without a shield.
- Automatically well balanced.
- Fun.
Allow us to wear a third trinket instead of a shield
The person using this option should it be added will be immediately kicked from any party I lead, unless I need the heat.
Nom nom nom nom nom.
On a serious note, this would allow some players to spend less money by not using a sheild. Anything that changes the way gear slots are used isn't well thought out.
Not able to use shields? Another trink slot?
Why isn't anyone complaining about how much more imbalanced LD would become?
Most likely because you're the first one after me in this thread who actually thinks before posting ;)
( Also: you're equipped with lockdown shields in lockdown. Those go into the shield slot. So: no third trinket in lockdown possible either way. Yes, I though this through, wouldn't have believed it myself some months ago but it really turn out to be a good idea in the end. No problems with it. Probably really aimed at more experienced players though. )
LOL.
Aimed at more experienced players? More experienced players use their shield much more often than little trinkets. I don't care if I had an extra +6 Pips in the place of a shield, I'd rather have no trinkets and a shield. You lose a lot more than 6 pips without a shield...
I don't think this would be used by experienced players at all. If anything, this would just be an...um...easier...hard mode?
-1.
~Sev
"Yes, I though this through."
Your defense to me saying you didn't think it through is just saying you thought it through? You sure didn't think that response through. A sheild is an item. By making it an unnecessary item, you change the flow of money, and you change the game mechanics in an arbitrary way. How would you sheild bump people? I mean alpha wolvers are supposed to be sheild bumped. At least they were before the dumb sidestep nerf. What about greavers? You have to sheild bump them unless you have a flourish. Even then, you can get surrounded. You most definitely did not think before posting some uneccesary gamebreaking mechanic.
I don't believe op has exited T1 yet. He'll learn about shield bumping soon enough. And shield cancelling.
Are you still in tier one?
Shields are a vital part of the game. When you are surrounded by enemies, you shield bump them away. Shields also cancel animations to make attacks quicker, so it finishes quicker and you get out out of the way of an enemy. A third trinket instead of a shield would NOT be balanced and is NOT better for experienced players, TYVM.
-Tox
Your defense to me saying you didn't think it through is just saying you thought it through?
What defense? You didn't bring up any arguments before ;)
Also still you're not really in a position to "attack" me here, so if you're not really trying to "discuss" but only to "attack", maybe you're in the wrong place.
So now:
No, that would not make shields "unnecessary" in any way. First of all, by the time players discover trinkets (and get their hands on the good ones) they usually are late T2, have a shield and know that they need one. If anything, players would craft more trinkets. Not less shields. At the Moment, everyone gets himself 3-4 shields because at least in shadow lairs you usually want to bring one of those things with you. And 1-2 of each module trinket that fits to his favourite equipment. With the proposed change, it'd still be 3-4 shields. But 1-3 modules trinkets.
Also:
This is entirely optional. No way that it could break anything. How can you complain about it being a "useless option" (= too weak) and at the same time about it "breaking something"? That does not make any sense ;)
I don't think this would be used by experienced players at all. If anything, this would just be an...um...easier...hard mode?
Not just "easier". More options, more fun. Maybe we're still thinking of a different sort of "experienced players". Let's call it "endgame players". We've already been running around without shields often enough anyway just for fun... and it IS fun, because it forces you to play differently, often even faster / more recklessly ("need to kill rocket puppy in the middle of those 5 retrodes NOW, no matter what xD"). But it gets... old. The main reason why I picked up a shield again was, that I missed the dmg Bonus from BTS or the ASI from swift.
I am a more "Experienced" player... F2P all the way to late t3... and you wanna know what I do? It is as follows: Don't get hit. its as simple as that...
But I will say that not being able to shield could be a problem... even my swiftstrike saves me from the odd zombie/kat that gets too close...
As a suggestion to what you would like (From what I can see) try making a sheild line that starts at 3*, and at five star has quite a bit of recipes... each requiring not only the 4* shield, but a 4* trinket... also, limit them to ASI/CTR/damage(For each weapon type)... the stats would be a unnoticeable difference from a swift, because it's not High, its at Med....
Any ways... my two bits...
~Tsu
But I will say that not being able to shield could be a problem...
Yes, it should be. The worst part about not having a shield is actually not even being unable to bump most of the time... it's being unable to shield-cancel. You have to use your charges and the small "charge step" / "charge pause" you can do between two slashes with your sword a lot more often. And do quick "double-slashes" with 3hitters, then run away "charging" instead of letting it go, so the mob doesn't hit you while your sword slowly slides back into "idle position".
Yes, the "offhand trinkets" would be inferior / harder to play with than shields most of the time... which is the main point why I think this couldn't break anything. Playing without a shield just gives many lvls a whole "flavour" and some small boost for the ones who dare would be neat.
Also: I did not learn to really dodge kats / rockets / howlitzer skulls before I faced those wihout a shield. It just gives you more motivation to try for obvious reasons xD. Call me lazy, but even with swiftstrike I often resorted to blocking those skulls etc because it's "more comfortable" most of the time and you don't loose thaaaat many hp. But it's a whole different story if you can't do that at all.
(edit: After reading the suggestion part of your post again, I think I don't fully understand it. Either there's an essential word or two missing or my english isn't good enough ;))
Sorry Ufana, but it's not a good idea. You are passionate about your idea which is good, but let this die and go back to the drawing board.
Been there, done that. Also, I'm more sort of... bored... than passionate. :D
So let's just keep going :3
How come you all fail to come up with reasons why this is a bad idea? ;)
- Would it have any negative consequences for anyone?
- If there are even minor ones - are any of those unavoidable?
- Does it sound like introducing this would waste a lot of precious developing time?
The main argument against the Idea that I see here is: "I can't play without a shield so noone should be able to do that" and that has 2 fundamental flaws:
1) It doesn't make any sense. Look out for a "causal connection" of sorts between the two statements. There is none.
2) Ok, let's pretend the previous point made sense. Look again. Does this statement in any way apply to the suggestion here? Some of us can and do play without shields anyway, so... I think no one so far explicitly complained about "trinkets" in that slot being overpowered... what's the problem with them being "underpowered" then - IF they are?
Make it so that you can use 3 trinkets in conjunction with a 0-1* shield, and only in PVE.
Metagenic: in conjunction with a 0-1* shield
Sounds like more "dev work" and a smaller impact on "playing style"... so effectively, we'd get less "fun" for more "money". Not entirely sure but I'd say that'd cross the line here... the whole "3rd trinket idea" in my opinion is not worth a lot of "dev time". Also without the inability to shieldbump / shieldcancel for "balancing", I think people might complain that dmg/ctr trinket+shield are boosting bombers/gunslingers too much.
Metagenic: and only in PVE.
As is, the "only in PvE" is already automatically built in. Because there are no free shield slots otherwise and you need one of those to use the suggested feature ;). This could theoretically change with future PvP games, but it's questionable if that issue is worth discussing already. Hmmm... wait... ok, let's discuss it anyway! A future implementation of running speed trinkets would theoretically mean, those would have to be disabled for blast network - but I also guess, they already are, because so is armor that gives this bonus. I think in a future super brawl implementation, offhand-trinkets would be underpowered except for very very few situations and those require enough skill so we can safely say: "well, why not". Any other nonexistant PvP modes or trinkets left to discuss?
If you want to run around with no shield that's cool, enjoy yourself. But asking for a bonus for doing so is stupid.
Explain to me, why exactly that is "stupid" please ;)
edit: Or to be more precise... If you think it's "cool and I should enjoy", then why shouldn't it be "cooler if I could enjoy it even more" with a slight bonus that hurts noone?
Like p.E.: I could have more fun with vortex + brandish charge, if I'd have place for a second elite sword focus. And the swordies could enjoy the "thrill" of playing without a shield without having to miss out on the medium dmg bonus (that BTS would give them).
3-4 shields? Explain to me the point of crafting shields to not have a slot to use them for.
You don't think this would be used by experienced players?
*refers to op*
So something aimed at noob players.
Oh. Okay. So the noob players get to easy mode through T1 even faster, suffer rage induced QQ, and demand nerfs on all T2 and T3 monsters to allow them to double faceroll using dual troika, or dual cutters. Great. Idea.
So what do you propose for attacking with a cutter and sealed? Allow the sealed to have no stop movement when swinging?
Leave it Demonic the OP isn't listening.
What I have recently been looking into is sacrificing defenses for a higher damage output, which made me rediscover an old and very dusty swiftstrike buckler. Guess what, that thing is fun to use in firestorm after all.
What I would find interesting would be a new type of shield with an empty trinket slot in it. It would have the defensive capabilities of a proto shield (so you can still shield bump and shield cancel), but not really offer you any protection worth speaking of. In essence, such a thing would enable you to play dual class in the clockworks, but have zero effect in lockdown. Code changes would also be minimal, as there only needs to be an interface for binding a trinket to a shield.
Not sure I get what you mean, Demonicsothe, but I guess I'll try to answer to the parts I understand...
3-4 shields? Explain to me the point of crafting shields to not have a slot to use them for.
BTS for pierce dmg (/JK) and later just anywhere for the sword dmg. Most players will want owlite for fsc until they get stronger (ele, fire). And replace it with a crest later (shadow, fire). That makes 3 shields already... then there's swiftstrike, which most experienced players switch to for a while before they go back to using BTS anywhere... or for the ones that don't do that, there's the possibility that they have a "useless first shield" like aegis. Makes 3-4 shields. For most players.
You don't think this would be used by experienced players?
*refers to op*
So something aimed at noob players.
Who are you talking to? I think some experienced players would use that feature. Mostly for fun... and easy lvls. Are you citing someone? Don't get what you're trying to tell me.
Oh. Okay. So the noob players get to easy mode through T1 even faster, suffer rage induced QQ, and demand nerfs on all T2 and T3 monsters to allow them to double faceroll using dual troika, or dual cutters. Great. Idea.
- How come all or a significant amount of your "noob players" have 4* trinkets available directly from the start?
- There are many "bad" equipment choices in this game already. How could this suggestion make anything worse?
- I think it's really creative how you managed to find seemingly... semi-logical... connection between this suggestion and the conclusion, that "players then would demand T2 and T3 mobs to be nerfed" but I fail to see how that would be a bad thing. Players have been demanding "healing pets" and lots of other stuff since the beginning of the game. So what?
So what do you propose for attacking with a cutter and sealed? Allow the sealed to have no stop movement when swinging?
First I'd propose: If you don't manage to do that, don't use a trinket for your offhand, you need a Shield!
And then again - if you really *want* to do that, because you think it's fun or something... figure it out yourself ;)
Just some small hints:
- Disable autoaim.
- You can use cutter attacks to walk. And dodge, if you're precise enough.
- You can time your combos - especially with 2hitters - better, if you hold the attack button pressed for a very short amount of time between every attack and then trigger the next attack by letting go the attack button instead of pressing it again. This also works a little bit like shield cancel and allows you to walk a step or two before executing the rest of a combo - or to begin again (/do a "real" charge) if you wait longer and the combo "breaks".
Spiral-Spy: What I have recently been looking into is sacrificing defenses for a higher damage output, which made me rediscover an old and very dusty swiftstrike buckler. Guess what, that thing is fun to use in firestorm after all.
Yes, we've been carrying that shield for a long time, too. After you get used to it, you really miss it if you have to leave it "at home" because you're entering the twins shadow lair or something. From swiftstrike, most of us went back to BTS though later... the dmg bonus is just more useful if you do a lot of sword charges. If you already have been doing fsc with swift a lot, try it without a shield some time! Believe it or not, but some rooms are actually faster without shields, because nobody can accidentally bump the harmless zombies out of the "zombie slaughtering zone" after you stacked all of them there ^^. That's rather rare though of course... mostly it's not more efficient - just more fun :3
Can I remind you guys that we have swiftstrike/BTS/scarlet shield?
Removing shield entirely for a little bonus is 100% pointless or useless with things like that also available.
No need to think new fancy mechanics that may demand more work, just expand those shield lines so we have more options.
I'd rather have (weak) shields with a bonus that equals one or more trinkets.
You gain an extra ability, while still having a limited defense that doesnt interfere with techniques like shield bump or shield cancelling.
It's a Win-Win
WEAR MAD BOMBER AND USE an Elite Focus Module and 2 Boom Modules XD AND A NITRO !! WITH A UV CTR MAX.. AND A UV CHANCE TO SHOCK ... AHAHAAHA .... heh... that would be OP. :3 i mean im a bomber and i barely use my shiled so it would really only be useful to bombers i think... and gunners. but think about it, a few shields already act like trinkets (hint hint scarlet and swiftstrike)
Juances: I'd rather have (weak) shields with a bonus that equals one or more trinkets.
That unfortunately actually makes a lot of sense! :D Q_Q
At least if expanding shield lines is really easier that allowing the shield slot for trinkets... Sounds like al lot of shields and a lot of work.... but, well, maybe mostly design work / not programming - and I guess OOO designers need more work anyways or else they're gonna throw even more accessories at us. So not sure, probably only the devs can know which one would be less work.
- Still no way to do "shield-less adventures" and still have a fun bonus though :(
- And I'm not sure if such an assortment of shields would be balanced "automatically". It might just work out, if the 5* versions are about as strong as swiftstrike now... not all that easy to say: "That can't possibly hurt the game" without testing as in my "underpowered solution"... but should be totally manageable.
Anyway - thx, it's officially your fault that now I want BOTH those things! :D
So, OOO...
- Make "very weak bonus shields" please for everything that trinkets do.
- AND allow players that want to go out without shields to equip trinkets instead (or something else that make you unable to use shield-bumping & cancelling)
:3
Diamondshreddie: WEAR MAD BOMBER AND USE an Elite Focus Module and 2 Boom Modules XD AND A NITRO !!
More than max isn't possible. You're right with the rest though - max dmg + max ctr is fun. Also, not having a shield has slightly less impact on bombers & gunners which is why I would never suggest stronger offhand-items - that'd bring the "classes" in imbalance. As long as it's just "trinket-strenght", we should be fine though, I guess.
How would I shield-cancel without a shield?
ITT morons
"You didn't bring up any arguments before "
Uhh, yes I did. I said Anything that changes the way gear slots are used isn't well thought out, and unless you agreed that your suggestion wasn't well thought through, there was an argument. You of course did think it was thought through, becuase you said "I though this through". Try reading peoples posts before commenting.
"Also still you're not really in a position to "attack" me here, so if you're not really trying to "discuss" but only to "attack", maybe you're in the wrong place. "
The best position to attack someone from is a comment below their post. I am indeed in an excellent position to argue any point, becuase it's a suggestions fourm, and thats what people do. Agree or disagree, and explain why. I assumed you weren't even halfway through T1, due to the fact that the sheild from the snarbolax has a sword bonus equivalent to a five-star trinket. Why would I replace defense + bonus with just a bonus? Not to mention that a five-star weapon trinket costs 800 energy to make, wheras a one-star sheild can be created for a mere 10 energy.
Now the only sensible thing you can suggest would be gunslinger and demo sheilds, and there was a fourm for that on the from page of the suggestions not very long ago.
You sir, are in no position to attack me ;)
"- Still no way to do "shield-less adventures" and still have a fun bonus though :("
"- AND allow players that want to go out without shields to equip trinkets instead (or something else that make you unable to use shield-bumping & cancelling)
D'oh, dont use it yourself, or assign the shield to a key you're not likely to press.
And it doesnt seem too much work to make more shields, just grab switfstrike and swap ASi with ctr/dmg (probably reduce 'high' with 'medium' or 'low').
The other usefull trinket we'd be missing are hearth pendants. Again, grab switstrike, shape it as a hearth and put a +5 life.
in total, just 3 more shields needed to cover everything important. I know I'm taking out some trinkets, mainly defensive ones, but it's because they are useless in comaprison.
assign the shield to a key you're not likely to press.
He, stop having good ideas now, before I loose interest in the original suggestion! xD
Guess with that in mind now I have only one valid point left:
- What about "style" / Motivation / Danger?
In my opinion a shield-less run is at least 20% less fun if everyone is actually wearing shields. Also, humans tend to succumb to such readily available "temptation" even if they know it'll be less fun. And it feels more like "not playing well" instead of like: "choosing an alternate play mode" if you have to look at those shields all the time.
OK, maybe I'd just have to accept having no "offhand bonus" if I want to opt in for that sort of runs T_T
But more shields with neat boni make that even harder :P
just grab switfstrike and swap ASi with ctr/dmg (probably reduce 'high' with 'medium' or 'low').
Hmmm... so 3 shields derived from swift instead of 9 analogue to the trinkets... that might... work out... not sure how though.
At least when it comes to ctr it's sort of hard...:
I think "low" would be too low: that'd just be either "not enough / less than max" for some or in other cases "one more than max", which equals nothing... :/
And medium would be too high (that'd reduce the amount of trinkets many players 'need' to wear by 2 and be even better.... ctr is always great)
Those shields sure sound a lot more "dangerous" to game balance after a first glance than the "rather useless offhand trinkets"... but at that point... I'm too tired to think it trough properly, so I'm going to look at this again tomorrow :3
For god sake, we are KNIGHTS. Sons of the sword and the shield (now with an addition of handguns and bombs). A knight value his life more than a average soldier, and thats why the shield is so important.