Forums › English Language Forums › General › The Arsenal

Search

I'm looking for a handgun and bomb to work towards

10 replies [Last post]
Thu, 02/16/2012 - 14:31
Ornithopt

So, I'm a newb right now. I dont have a lot of time on my hands (I'm a dad), so I was looking for the most bang for my buck as far as working towards gear goes.

I'd like to be a bomber/gunner. From what I've been looking at, it makes the most sense to specialize in multiple types of guns and bombs, but realistically that isn't going to happen for me for quite some time. So what I'm looking for is a gun and a bomb that do good damage to all enemy types.

My thoughts right now are to go with a Blaster for a gun, and a Blast bomb. The gun would eventually upgrade to Valiance, and the bomb would eventually upgrade to Nitronome. From what I've read, both of these to pretty good damage to all enemy types, making them the best "jack of all, master of none" weapons out there.

The gearset will be the bomber set, upgrading to the Mercurial set (both helm and armor) for the runspeed bonus which seems good for kiting as a gunner or a bomber.

Lastly, I have no clue what to do for a shield? I need help on this one. I was thinking either the Defender line or maybe the Plate line, but maybe one with lots of resistance would be best?

Anyway, if anyone has more experience, I'd love to know if I'm on the right track, or if I'm way off base. Thanks in advance for any help!

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 14:55
#1
Nordlead's picture
Nordlead
Go to the wiki and read up on

Go to the wiki and read up on damage types and monsters. This is key to understanding how best to kill monsters.

For a gun, I'd suggest an elemental gun like an alchemer (pulsar is an option, but not until after you beat the Ironclaw Munitions Factory). The reason for this is that all long range monsters are either weak (gun puppies, howlitzers, retrodes) or neutral (polyps) to elemental damage. As for wolvers and gremlins (who are strong against elemental), they dodge bullets so a normal gun wouldn't be effective against them anyways. Fiends also dodge like crazy and they are neutral to elemental. Since I'm assuming you are going to get multiple guns eventually, your valiance will probably be tossed to the side quickly so why build it off the start?

For bombs, a blast bomb (going toward nitronome) would be a good option since it works on everything, but they can be very annoying to teamates if you aren't careful. Another decent option would be a dark briar barrage. It would take care of beasts, fiends, undead, and gremlins. The only problem with the DBB, is that it would leave mecha nights to be dealt with your elemental gun, but mecha's shield which would be really annoying, hence why I say the DBB is only a decent option.

Once you get going and have decent damage output, I suggest getting some status bombs like Ash of Agni, Voltaic Tempest, and Shivermist Buster. I love running in groups where people have Ash of Agni because I can combine it with my Voltaic Tempest and it quickly destroys every monster.

As for a shield, Owlite would be good since it has elemental, fire, and shock and will block well against gun puppies which are fairly common. Another option would be swiftstrike to speed up your gun attack, but it doesn't protect from much at all, especially in T3. Also, remember that shield resistances only apply to the shield health.

For armor, mercurial is ok, but from what I've heard the speed bonus isn't that great. I don't have any experience with it so I can't really say. You may want to search the forums on the topic.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:38
#2
Warlordx's picture
Warlordx
As far as bang for your buck

As far as bang for your buck mercurial isn't really the way to go, as I understand it the speed increase is very minor and only really helpful to very rich bombers who can already reach max ctr and damage with UVs and trinkets. If that's not you sticking to the standard bomber armors (ones you don't have to do shadow lairs to get) is probably best especially since volcanic demo with its fire resist is very useful in FSC, the most profitable levels in the game.

Alternatively the gunner lines are ok too or you could go with something like a skolver coat/divine veil (maybe subbing in justifier jacket instead of skolver for the gun buffs) combo which is not specialized but does cover all damage types and some of the worst statuses.

As far as weapons go I second what nordlead has to say, specialization is usually the way to go and really only requires one or two extra weapons to switch in and out. For guns the alchemers are all good for elemental and if you get voltech or firo the status effects work great on jellys too, magnus is good for pierce and good at knocking hitting dodging gremlins (see what I did there? now you don't need a shadow gun).

As for bombs status bombs are usually more helpful to parties than nitro. Status bombs are some of the most useful weapons in arenas, royal jelly palace (rjp) and firestorm citadel (fsc), the three places where you make the most crowns. The Ash of Agni line (fire) and Voltaic Tempest line (shock) stack really well together and when all of your enemies are on fire and chain shocking each other they die real quick. The shivermist buster (freeze) line is great for crowd control and for use in the final boss fight.

And once you can afford 4star stuff you should invest in a third weapon slot, by that point 250ce a month is not that much (or even just 150 ce if you save your mist) and it reeeeally helps you be more versatile.

For shields if you end up grinding rjp a lot make sure to snag a brute jelly shield. It has better pierce resist (which is great for further rjp grinding) than the snarby shield line and since you're doing bombs/guns you don't need the sword buff from the snarby line. And since you want to be efficient it's basically a 3star shield for 3500cr (the opportunity cost of not selling it to vendors) which is super cheap for 3star gear. When I was working on my pure bomber alt and trying to be super stingy with my crowns I got a bristling buckler from snarby, used it to grind rjp till I got the brute jelly then vendored the buckler.

But yeah Grey owlite should also be a goal for you in terms of shields, the elemental defense is really useful, it's definitely the shield I use the most by far on my main. And remember, you can't use your shield while charging bombs so while you'll still need it for bumps or if you get trapped the more you end up bombing the less you need your shield.

And if you haven't read the wiki and guides do so, they can be quite helpful.

Sun, 02/19/2012 - 22:18
#3
Ornithopt
If I were to simply pick up 2

If I were to simply pick up 2 handguns to start, what should I get to cover my bases for monster resists?

I currently have a cryotech alchemer... what other gun should I get (or 2 if I should re-start) for just starting out with 2 pistols?

Sun, 02/19/2012 - 23:41
#4
Demonicsothe's picture
Demonicsothe
Pick up a shadowtech. Attack

Pick up a shadowtech. Attack patterns are the same as a cryotech. It also covers your damage bases, dealing effective damage to 4 families, and neutral to the other two.

Personally, I prefer other alchemers over the cryo. But that is preference. What's known as fact is that cryo has the lowest dps out of all the elemental alchemers. The usage of the freeze may or may not appeal to you.

There is a thread titled "experience with hail driver" somewhere in the arsenals. Perhaps on the 2nd page. Or 3rd.

If, after your own consideration, you wish to obtain a different elemental alchemer, I suggest nova for pure damage. If you wish to have a status, voltech, which applies shock.

Sun, 02/19/2012 - 23:53
#5
Ornithopt
Hmm, so if I scrap the

Hmm, so if I scrap the Cryo:

You think for best dmg with 2 guns it would be Nova and a Voltech? Would that keep my bases covered still (I'm still having issues with how 2 weapons cover different resist types).

EDIT:
Also, what if I were to go with the Antigua line: one Argent Peacemaker, and one Sentenza? Would having both of those give me better damage output than the two Alchemers?

Thanks for all the help!

Sun, 02/19/2012 - 23:57
#6
Demonicsothe's picture
Demonicsothe
Don't sell weapons, you might

Don't sell weapons, you might have a desire to use them later.

Have you checked out the damage page on the wiki? Go read that. Then, go read the page on monster, or perhaps it was called family.

There are 6 familes, each with a different weakness and a different resisted damage. There are 3 damage types, piercing, elemental, and shadow. By having 2 of these damages, you deal the effective damage type against 4 families, and neutral damage, which is base, to the remaining 2.

Nova and voltech are both elemental, so you'll deal effective against elemental weak, neutral against elemental neutral, and ineffective damage against everything that resists elemental.

My suggestion was a shadowtech, dealing shadow, to go along with your cryo. Then I said you can replace the cryo with either nova, or volt.

Mon, 02/20/2012 - 00:02
#7
Demonicsothe's picture
Demonicsothe
Those are split damage

Those are split damage handguns. To understand why split damage is normally avoided, you need to know one thing:

Monster resistance protects them from a set % of damage. Same thing with weakness. However, the weakness % is lower than the resistance %. For example, you deal 25% more damage with weakness. But with resisted, you deal 50% less.

Thus, split damage handguns are only effective on targets who are neutral to one part of the damage, and weak to the othr part.

Ap, being elemental/pierce, deal decent damage to fiends and undeads. Sentenza deal shadow/pierce, which is decent on beasts and gremlins. However, your total damage output becomes like this, assuming ap+sent:

Decent damage to 4 families, sub par damage to 2. Slightly above normal, and a fair bit under normal. Thus, it is better to use pure special type weapons, even if only 2.

Mon, 02/20/2012 - 01:54
#8
Ornithopt
Thanks for that explanation!

Thanks for that explanation! I have read the wiki a ton of times, and your post was the best explanation I've heard to date, both on handguns and on monster families.

Thanks!

ps 1- Is there a good piercing gun that is the staple to go with if I dont go with shadow? Magnus?

ps 2- Is there a visual queue to tell if my shots are being resisted? I haven't seen one so far. I'm still learning families, so having a visual effect to look for would help me know when to switch guns.

ps 3- Yeah, I've heard the negative talk on the split dmg guns. One reason why they appealed to me was that they had 6 shots before a reload (over 2) which means less sheild lock out. 2 shots before reloading is crappy :C

Mon, 02/20/2012 - 02:30
#9
Fradow's picture
Fradow
1) For general use, yes,

1) For general use, yes, Magnus is the go-to piercing gun, because it's very good at hitting dodging mobs (most piercing-weak mobs dodge). For FSC specifically, Blitz Needle (Autogun line) is way better, but hard to use outside of FSC.

2) Yes but it's not very noticeable. You should activate damage display in the options, and that way it's very noticeable. Grey for resisted, white for normal, yellow for bonus damage.

3) Wait for the update on Antigua line guns. They may become very good (or trashed beyond useless, who knows).

Mon, 02/20/2012 - 03:05
#10
Arquebus's picture
Arquebus
Hello.

In addition to monsters' weaknesses and resistances, you also have to take into account the way they behave:

• Undead and Constructs are weak to Elemental. They tend to be slow and present large targets, but can appear in hordes that make them difficult to attack in melee at times. Two of the three types of turrets in Spiral Knights are of these two families as well. Having a gun for them is a huge plus.

• Beasts and Fiends are weak to Piercing. They dodge all over the place when shot at and generally present smaller targets, making guns a less viable option in general. Swords are usually the best choice for dealing with them.

• Gremlins and Slimes are weak to Shadow. Their attacks' direction is difficult to predict, but they move relatively quickly and can be easily led into the radius of a bomb.

With this in mind, if I had to do it all again, the three weapons I'd prioritize would be a Flourish, and elemental Alchemer, and a status bomb. That gets me my sword for when I need to cut down beasties and devilites, my gun for when I need to run away from all the zombies and retrodes, and my bomb to soften up arenas. My personal picks would be a Snarble Barb (easy to get), Prismatech Alchemer (highest damage), and Fiery Vaporizer (because fire :D).

I have a bajillion guns and love all of them. Shoot me a message and I'd be happy to show them off in the training hall or out in the field. They're all unique and useful in their own right; some are just more specialized than others. I've got a bunch of bombs too, same goes.

Powered by Drupal, an open source content management system