Forums › English Language Forums › General › Suggestions

Search

Overworld Travel

29 replies [Last post]
Wed, 04/20/2011 - 15:34
RamuneDrink
Legacy Username

The cradle is a big place...why not explore it?
They could give Haven gates that allow people to traverse the world; it wouldn't cost energy but there'd be a lot less drops (money, heat, and mats).

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 15:51
#1
Ilikiki's picture
Ilikiki
What's the point?

What's the point?

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 15:57
#2
RamuneDrink
Legacy Username
Um, maybe overworld travel,

Um, maybe overworld travel, as opposed to continual dungeon travel? Don't you get tired of the dungeon mechanics constantly? The first level (outside the Rescue Camp) is along the same lines. Having an area that's more open and not so linear in its objective.

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 16:08
#3
Ilikiki's picture
Ilikiki
The scope of the game is to

The scope of the game is to delve inside randomly generated dungeons. Objectives are supposed to be clean-cut and linear so that you have a straightforward goal to strive for. It's why the game is as fun and challenging as it is. What's the point of overworld travel?

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 16:12
#4
Hazel's picture
Hazel
Pretty much all of Ramune's

Pretty much all of Ramune's suggestions seem to be based around wanting to be immersed in a single-player action roleplaying experience.

Might I suggest Legend of Zelda?

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 16:32
#5
RamuneDrink
Legacy Username
Yes, you may. But after

Yes, you may. But after beating them all (extensively) and suddenly having a similar MMO, isn't it kind of pointless? Heck, you don't have to agree with me, but I can still make the suggestion.

And obviously you can offer a counter suggestion...

May I ask a question? What do you have against single-player action RPGs? Why can't we have mulit-player action RPGs?

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 16:40
#6
Hazel's picture
Hazel
There are plenty of those.

There are plenty of those. And this technically is one. However, I'd really rather not see even a second of the dev's time wasted on NPC dialogue when there are gameplay issues, new content, etc. to be added instead.

In fact, lore as a whole can go bite it until the game itself is worked on appropriately. I gain no gameplay enjoyment by being given some meaningless reason to go do something I was going to go do anyway.

Read books if you want story. MMOs are not exactly a rich tapestry, save for WoW, which got that way only due to having several years of single-player story-driven games coming before it.

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 17:20
#7
Threule
Legacy Username
Of overworld i would suggest

Of overworld i would suggest a Snipe park, and a flatgrass where weak monsters spawn

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 17:22
#8
hamiltond465
Legacy Username
I feel sorry for WoW lore-lovers

My dad plays WoW, and he constantly has to skip content because he out levels it.

On topic tho; I think Overworld would be a nice place to slot larger scale areas.
You may have noticed, but most of the clockworks, aside from the boss areas and the big gremlin areas are little rooms connected by walkways.
A few Big 8-12 player maps would be a welcome addition in my book.
(cmon, you WANT to fight 50 devilites at once, right?)

Think of it as an extra gate if you must.

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 17:37
#9
Ilikiki's picture
Ilikiki
Then why not just

Then why not just implement... an extra gate?

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 17:41
#10
Threule
Legacy Username
Why not a free opne world on

Why not a free opne world on the right of Haven?

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 18:23
#11
Chandrakant
Out of the sea... wish I could be... part of that wooooooo~rld..

What's wrong with having an actual world to explore in the game universe? I'd like to see different locales, if only just because I'm tired of seeing the same places over and over again.

For those of you freaking out because we're apparently screaming in the direction of "story" and "expansive questlines" and whatnot, keep in mind that we already have some subtowns in the clockworks and, hey, they don't provide any sort of value for the game, whatsoever! =D It doesn't have to be a story driven world, just because it's a world.

@Hazel
Action RPG experience is one thing, but the world hardly changes, nothing really expands? What's the point of playing a game, then, that is based upon the idea of discovery through exploration? It's not like the gameplay would change, it would just have another point of application.

And there are plenty of MMOs that have incredible storylines to them; it's just that most people don't have the patience to follow them.

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 19:19
#12
Hazel's picture
Hazel
@MintnHoney The game hasn't

@MintnHoney

The game hasn't been out long enough to expand. They may add more gate hubs later, maybe even fluff areas for people to hang out in to get them out of of the arcade. However, that's still another thing entirely from what's suggested in the OP.

If you want to just walk into another area and be charged energy and greeted by monsters like a dungeon floor, close your eyes for the elevator segment of a dungeon floor.

Problem solved. Literally zero difference.

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 23:17
#13
RamuneDrink
Legacy Username
What about big, open

What about big, open expanses...no walls for once, multiple exits, you know. Not just kill all the enemies from here to the elevator, solving simple puzzles along the way? The difference between dungeon and overworld is fairly self-explanatory. Although I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't arrive for a year or so. As you've said, this is a new game and it would take a VERY long time to try and build a huge expanse of land and monsters.

Sun, 04/24/2011 - 01:33
#14
Bolgron
Right.

I absolutely adore the idea of overworld exploration too. Something that's constant, but expansive enough to still be interesting. It adds to the immersion of the game, and this had been discussed during Beta. I came to the conclusion, from those discussions, that the East Side would feature something to do with this. We're gonna have to keep waiting though, this kind of thing takes a LONG time to make to a decent standard. By a long time, I mean it's like adding another game to the game. All the while still working on keeping the old elements fresh. With the limited staff team, though bigger now presumably because of Sega's new interest, there's a lot to do. And a lot more bug testing. In the meantime I'm expecting Guild Hall improvements and maybe some new weapons to come.

Immersion is a massive point on keeping players PLAYING the game. Check Portal, another puzzle-themed game [Yes, that is what SK is.] which has a clear storyline too. This storyline is a major factor to its success. While some people, I call them CoD people, enjoy games where they mindlessly kill everything for no real objective other than to win, which is fine, other people enjoy games where there's a clear plot that they have to follow. The style of this game as a cutesy MMO puts it at the same kind of age as the original Spyro games. You need a story. Other MMO games include storylines, for example with Runescape; many quests are part of arcs featuring storylines. A lot of people don't bother to look at these, but a LOT of time is put into it because it's interesting. When there's nothing much else to do except the same, people look into the details of what they're doing.

So basically, Nothingxs, there is the point; keeping YOU interested when you inevitably get bored. And if you don't get bored with Spiral Knights, great, but everyone else will eventually if nothing much is added. Try to empathise.

Sun, 04/24/2011 - 06:40
#15
Raul
This isn't Legend of Zelda

This isn't Legend of Zelda people

Sun, 04/24/2011 - 09:28
#16
Bolgron
...

And neither is it meant to be boring. Play longer, you'll get it.

Tue, 04/26/2011 - 08:21
#17
RamuneDrink
Legacy Username
This may not be LoZ, but it

This may not be LoZ, but it certainly takes quite a bit from the series. Is there something wrong with that? Having a MMO that takes the top-down perspective on small characters who slash at grass is...refreshingly different. So why should it be limited to dungeons? Have you not gotten tired of the same dungeons over and over again?

Sun, 04/24/2011 - 11:13
#18
Ilikiki's picture
Ilikiki
If I have, then the solution

If I have, then the solution is for more dungeons or for people to actually start properly creating strata.

An overworld is unnecessary and most likely outside of the scope of the intended design of the game. It's not going to happen -- waste your breath on something else.

Sun, 04/24/2011 - 11:29
#19
IronianPage
Legacy Username
I think on top of the

I think on top of the open-ended exploration, some much more practical points can be covered. Take for example the big problem with CE. You either buy it with real money, or put an ever-increasing amount of crowns into meager 100 CE packages. Like several people here, I love me some immersion, and have been paying attention to the lore and explanations of the in-game mechanics.

Now just humor me a moment here and stop thinking about the RL situation. In strictly canonical terms, we gain energy through two iterations: crystallized energy, or its more gaseous form that drifts through the very air the residents of Cradle breathe. Going on a limb, I could theorize this mist energy is what allows many of the weapons and technologies of Cradle to function. Assuming this as fact, I can logically conclude that the mist energy of Haven, and that in the Clockworks, is being constantly depleted by the mechanics of the Strangers and Gremlins respectively. So now, what would that mean of these areas, but that there is less mist to go around in these locations. That said, this conclusion would mean that if one was to go somewhere outside of the usual heavily technological locales, one would be able to absorb mist energy at a faster rate.

However, here's where the actual game becomes a concern again. I'll admit it would likely be overpowered to have all of this theoretical overworld charge your gauge at a much faster rate. The thing is, the surface of Cradle is probably woven with a fair amount of machination as well. This is where it gets practically playable: what if the further into the wilderness you got, the less technology would be present, and therefore the more mist you would get. That means more fighting, and since it's not in the midst of the clockworks, you get less drops, and therefore less health buffs and vials and such. It means that you would have to be more careful when venturing out, but there would be the valuable reward of more energy for those that went further, making a very valuable and (with lots of polish) balanced mechanic for more hardcore players, as well as those without the money to get large quantities of CE. From what I'm seeing this has the potential to help make the game more accessible to players who can't or won't spend money on gathering CE, and increase the play time potential for everyone!

...Oh, also, I just realized how OP this could be for high-tier players. There's a canon-based fix for this too-- higher tier equipment have more technological augmentation, of course! These weapons and defenses theoretically consume more mist energy than a lower tier counterpart, and therefore one with that sort of equipment must go further out for similar rate buffs. Since there aren't any special storage spaces and all your equipment is apparently on your person in some form at all times, the rates could be determined by your inventory instead of what's equipped in order to prevent exploitation.
I think this would work out quite well personally, but I'm not the one making the development decisions and it would as I said need some polishing. I just like laying the groundwork for things like this, and whether it's used or not, I hope it gets the ol' cogs turning.

Tue, 04/26/2011 - 06:54
#20
Bolgron
Well...

IronianPage. I love that idea. You MAN/woman.

Tue, 04/26/2011 - 08:37
#21
RamuneDrink
Legacy Username
@IronianPage

Great post. That was surprisingly theoretic and technologically intellectual at the same time. Didn't know people could take gameplay concepts that far. It's, amazing! So, yeah. Expanding on the idea of higher-level weapons needing more mist for creation/funciton, allowing the crafting of high-level weapons with solely mist energy (crafting over time) for several days in the wilderness could be a possible mechanic. Or better yet, allow for more UVs or better weapon upgrades when a recipe is applied out in the deep recesses of the Overworld. For example, I have an Tempered Caliber that I want to make into an Ascended Caliber. If I use the Overworld crafting method (takes a long time with only mist energy because of lack of CE and lack of Alchemy Machine) the blade turns out as "Wilderness Calibur" or something of the like because it was crafted in an environment rife with ME. That'd be pretty cool. But in order to make up for the lack of CE needed to play the area, drops would have to be decreased in immense proportions. As in, practically no money, potions/vials, or mats. Otherwise people could just farm the Overworld and never need the Clockworks to get stuff (ie, no CE, OOO makes no money).

Tue, 04/26/2011 - 08:59
#22
Quiiliitiila's picture
Quiiliitiila
Overworld

I really like the idea of an overworld to explore eventually as well. I see no problem with it being eventually implemented after some of the other issues with the game are looked at. When I think of the overworld the first thing that comes to my mind is this:

http://www.games-wallpapers.in/wallpapers/spiral-knights-unique-weapons-...

It would be pretty cool to be able to explore areas on the planet, in fact there could be an area for each element:
-Mountains or arctic for cold
-Jungle for poison
-Desert or volcanic for fire
-Ancient clockwork ruins for electricity

These areas can be chosen to travel to at some sort of hub or terminal, possibly there could be other Stranger cities for player usage instead of 17 haven instances.

Well food for though anyway,
Quiiliitiila

Tue, 04/26/2011 - 13:47
#23
RamuneDrink
Legacy Username
There needs to be a map.

There needs to be a map.

EDIT: I was just thinking, since the Cradle is a round planet, why can't we try going through/past the core to another city on teh other side? King TInkinzar and the Crimson Order? Do want.

Tue, 04/26/2011 - 13:58
#24
Quiiliitiila's picture
Quiiliitiila
Unless someone makes one (I

Unless someone makes one (I could attempt to make something up, I have a map maker :^D), we'll have to wait for the dev's to bring something to the table.

I was also thinking further on the topic and I came up with the idea of other cities (briefly mentioned in my last post). The history of the game says that we have crash landed on this planet and begun adventuring into the clockworks. Well, why haven't we moved horizontally as well? Wouldn't it make sense for us to set up camps around the globe to access other areas of the clockworks? I suppose this could be used for major new content (areas, and stuff) but getting to these new camps would require a trek across the overworld to get there.

Any thoughts?
Quiiliitiila

Tue, 04/26/2011 - 15:16
#25
New-Dusk's picture
New-Dusk
Ohhhh, i like this

Hell, you could use it as a device to drive the "story" (and i use that lightly) forward. Remember the Skylark, the Spiral Knight's space ship? Well, the point of going out into the overworld area would be to locate the Skylark's crash site and attempt to raid a little loot from it. In order to get into the ship after finding it, you would have to pay 50 energy and after that you could search the ship for recipies and materials (all of these would be for or from the line you can buy off of Kozma, since they didn't have access to the other stuff before crashing). The Skylark would be in a different area of the overworld each time, and you can only spend five minutes searching for stuff before the security system boots up to throw you out.

Tue, 04/26/2011 - 15:49
#26
Hangedman
Legacy Username
One of the things I like most

One of the things I like most about Spiral Knights is how intuitive the story is.
The story isn't meant to be a massive exposition about how you are the Chosen Knight to find the Core or something equally derivative:
It's told in the Strangers' presence, and the layouts of the dungeons and subtowns, with hints of something more.
But again, not everyone likes subtlety or gets the idea behind it.

What I'd like to see is something like this:
People are saying Haven is too crowded, and the instances are always full.
Why not have a couple new cities?
I realize this is a substantial amount of work, but we're all speculating like crazy here so let's be charitable.

You could have four cities including Haven, each with a different style, linked by criss-crossing paths.
The paths themselves would be just like dungeons, but without the elevators and across wide expanses of ground, mixing old assets with new areas. You'd party up and make your way across the wilderness. The 'terminal' would be a small outpost in the center of the four cities where the two crossing paths meet, from which you could then head on in any direction to the city you'd like to go to next.
Functionally, the cities would all be very similar (Bazaar, Arcade, Plaza, Guild Center). Guilds would be able to select a home city for a bit of customization flair.

Of course, I have no idea how elevators and level selection and etc would even out.
But then I'm just venting here.

That way the overworld doesn't dominate the game and it just makes the world feel bigger.
There could also be energy or crown cost to teleport from the square of one town to the next.

EDIT: I suppose you could just have all the elevators be the same in all towns, explain it away as the fact that the Clockworks under the surface are HUUUUGE and would easily cover the area below all the cities.

Tue, 04/26/2011 - 16:02
#27
Choobski
Legacy Username
@Hangedman

Brilliant! This is exactly what I had on my mind too! I think if you are going to travel on foot town to town it should be free or at least cheap energy wise. Fast travel would cost more. Maybe, the "terminal" situated between all the cities could just be Haven itself?

An issue I see is being able to join your friends/guildmates when they are in a different city. Currently, if a friend/guildmate is in a different instance of Haven you can just "join" them and switch to their instance. If you are in city X and friend is in city Y, it would either take you a while to reach on foot or cost you CE to fast travel there. If you just allow people to "join" friends in other cities then it can be exploited.

I like where this is going though.

Tue, 04/26/2011 - 19:46
#28
RamuneDrink
Legacy Username
More cities are needed. I

More cities are needed. I feel like overworld travel shouldn't be as linear and limiting as dungeon exploration. The dungeons are so straightforwards: you have a start, a finish, and a ton of monsters in between. The overworld could be more open: less confining along a set path, multiple exits, fewer monsters and more scenery than various spikes and blocks. Having more cities would take a VERY long time for OOO to actually make, but I see it as a vital addition to the game as a whole.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 19:02
#29
Gwenyvier's picture
Gwenyvier
For the people that don't

For the people that don't want an overworld due to various reasons I think you are missing a rather big point. It's an overworld, its expansive. There could very well be multiple towns with their own gates that have their own bosses (different sections of the clockworks), there could be elite area dungeons hidden away in the harder to reach areas of the overworld (Tomb of the Undead Wolvers :p). Getting to the dungeon is free, the elevators cost the usual amount (have to keep the energy cost). You could find non-craftable 5* gear.

A light storyline isn't a bad thing. We're not talking half hour cinematics like you get in some games, some text you can completely bypass if you wish to ("Did you know that the witch-woman Jenka once had a brother?" 5 points if you catch the reference). We already have a story behind Vanaduke having others wouldn't hurt anything and would make things interesting.

~Gwen

Powered by Drupal, an open source content management system