Can people just stop talking about balancing this game already?
Mar, 02/21/2012 - 00:31
Well, my title sums it up. Why should we just forgo this balancing business? Why? It's simple really. When we hear balance, the first thing that comes to mind is: Wolver Set too DAMN OP. OK. It's true. But then what happens when we change that? This is what will happen: you will have a full scale riot of scrubby Wolvers, especially those 5* Skolvers or Vog Cubs or Snarbies, saying that "hey I payed for this crap, and now OOO just messed up my trinkets and stuff". Another thing is that Balance is already on the way. The problem with this game is that there's too much priority on swords. You want balance? Debuff swords. Make them on par with guns and bombs. But NO. More scrubs will start complaining about how LOW their damage output is, and then you get another full scale riot. I say let OOO do their work, and buff those weak items that really need changing. NO DEBUFFING. It's just damn stupid. You want balance? Talk about buffing stuff, not "Hey this stuff is too damn OP, it should get NERFED". This game has gotten way out of hand anyways, when they made OP sets to begin with. So how to ultimately balance? Well, I say Buff and NO Debuff. Enough said. Let OOO deal with this damn business, and stop putting in some of your scrubby ideas.
Mar, 02/21/2012 - 00:45
#2
There will be people who feel
There will be people who feel like they are entitled to have a say in the direction the game is going. There will be people who feel that the game would be more enjoyable if changed. There will be people who feel that the game itself will collapse if not changed.
Whether such people are right to think that way, or right in their belief, they all have their reasons.
You can't stop people from going after what they want.
Mar, 02/21/2012 - 00:46
#3
Precisely
In my honest opinion, guns and bombs do too little damage. The problem with balance is this idea: "HEY i paid the same amount of CE on this piece of equipment, so why is another one worth the same amount of CE better in many more respects?" So the idea I believe with Shadow Key items is that they are good items that are not available to the scrubby F2P people. You have to pay to get them. If what you say is true, then the next thing that people would want would be GOD items. Do you want these types of items to exist in game? NO. Balance by buffing. No debuffing. Ruins the game. Its like instead of making the rich poorer, make the poor richer.
Mar, 02/21/2012 - 00:58
#4
I think small passive walk
I think small passive walk speed boosts to items that are clearly inferior to wolver or other generally agreed-to-be-a-bit-too-strong items would be a good way of balancing things without making too many items do the same thing and thus blandifying things. And would also remove the need to nerf wolver things since they would still have a unique purpose, as would the new 'fast walkin' things that also now have a unique quality. Then increasing the "low" to "medium" on some of the mercurial items so they don't get overshadowed.
Mar, 02/21/2012 - 01:12
#5
I don't think nerf wolver is
I don't think nerf wolver is the first thing. It might come close, but I have always thought that there are more people asking for gunner buffs instead of wolver nerfs.
By the way, misleading title. After all, buffing subpar equipment is balancing the game, which you seem to want people to stop talking about.
Mar, 02/21/2012 - 02:01
#6
Well...
Point number one- I really don't think its like that... I have all or most of the popular gear (Glacius, DA, the works) and I still want Sudaruska to get buffed. Why? Because to put it simply- its kind of sad that there are weapons that are just flat out outclassed by other items- especially when they look cool. People are selfish, but that doesn't mean that they are incorrect. See Chris' thread on improving the game via trickle down economics that would benefit him. It works, despite benefiting him directly.
Point number two- People are entitled to their opinions. You cannot change them, and they will have to vent someplace, even if it isn't read. This is why we have the suggestions forum- so that we can vent our ideas to the devs who may or may not but probably do on occasion read them without posting on them. Look at yourself, you hold opinions on the issue, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Point number three- There are items that are unusable in almost every situation, or that are used by so few because there are just better versions immediately available- for example, Ionized Salt Bomb and Big Angry Bomb. ISB has a crap charge time, and is worthless- it would nice to have another option for a weapon, as this would add diversity to the game. The same goes for BAB. Balance is not out to get you, and could greatly improve the game... the devs should see what players think about this.
Point number four- Our "scrubby ideas" may just be correct sometimes, and may just end up in the final cut... this isn't our doing, nor are we the ones that are changing the game. The devs change the game. We just give them ideas. People talked about the Sentenza/Argent Peacemaker for quite a while, and now look at them- they're being changed. Probably for the better, albeit I won't know until the actual update comes out.
Point number five- You don't have to read it. Just go to a different page. The changes never happen anyway, and when they do its usually either entirely unbiased by what the forums think, or is done without much concern for what the majority players think.
Point number six- There will constantly be items added as long as the game exists- people bearing storm drivers didn't leave the game en mass when the roarmulus twins came out with polaris. Buyer beware applies to everything, including making gear.
Mar, 02/21/2012 - 10:17
#7
No
Buff My bombs only like only me Mastersleet can put bombs in like beta version ><
BOMBS BE BUFFED :D Everyone Laughs at us D: but i like going KABLOOY ::D
Mar, 02/21/2012 - 15:00
#8
I agree with you. Im sick of
I agree with you. Im sick of all those topics about 'so called' balancing game. All those nerf and boost requests that ppl cliam are 'for teh greater good' while in fack they are just made of selfish reasons or grudge agains certain ppl using those weapons.
Im agains ANY NERFS or BUFFS.
Buffing weapons will make demands rise, everyone will want to buff their weapon (group they are using). Also buffing weapons is for me a cheap marketing trick to make players craft it and spend CE/CR or even maybe buy CE with $$ to make that thing. And when everything will be buffed there wont be really change at all.
Nerfing weapons is a unfair move towards players who spent their hard earned CR and CE and time to make it, knowing its cons and pros. Nefring it will make their work go waste. You dont change game rules in the middle of it.
Nerfing monsters is making game too easy, if one thing got nerfer there would be a avalance of another nerf requests and whole game will became shufflebot fest.
NO TO NERFS, NO TO BUFFS. LEAVE GAME AS IT IS.
Mar, 02/21/2012 - 15:34
#9
The title is misleading, do you hate balancing?
My first point is to make your great text of china more readable.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Well, my title sums it up. Why should we just forgo this balancing business? Why?"
So we can create a game in which there is no "best" items. So that way all options of playing fulfill their role such as bombers being effective and gunners as well. (swordsmen too)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's simple really. When we hear balance, the first thing that comes to mind is: Wolver Set too DAMN OP. OK. It's true"
When I hear about balance I think of the chaos set, windmillion, troika lines, shadowsun armor.
Also the wolver armor is ok for it's role: Being a swordsman.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"But then what happens when we change that? This is what will happen: you will have a full scale riot of scrubby Wolvers, especially those 5* Skolvers or Vog Cubs or Snarbies, saying that "hey I payed for this crap, and now OOO just messed up my trinkets and stuff"."
Hypothetical situation in which you need to back up with evidence.
Don't use ad hominem for any users of specific armor.
Also not ever person with skolver/vog paid real money for their armor, remember this is a free to play game.
Another thing is that Balance is already on the way. The problem with this game is that there's too much priority on swords. You want balance? Debuff swords. Make them on par with guns and bombs.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Because Nick didn't make a thread where he discusses gun and bomb changes?
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/34185 Here you go.
Also swords shouldn't be discussed when talking about guns/bombs. Apples and oranges.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But NO. More scrubs will start complaining about how LOW their damage output is, and then you get another full scale riot.
Again, hypothetical. You can't use abstract evidence.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I say let OOO do their work, and buff those weak items that really need changing. NO DEBUFFING. It's just damn stupid. "
Didn't you say, "You want balance? Debuff swords. Make them on par with guns and bombs."
Please be clear.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You want balance? Talk about buffing stuff, not "Hey this stuff is too damn OP, it should get NERFED".
You said "Debuff swords. Make them on par with guns and bombs." so you just said....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"This game has gotten way out of hand anyways, when they made OP sets to begin with."
Please explain which sets were OP from the get go. Don't assume you audience knows what you are thinking.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"So how to ultimately balance? Well, I say Buff and NO Debuff. Enough said. Let OOO deal with this damn business, "
You stated the OOO should leave balancing to themselves.
Yet you just told us what you think balancing should be.
I say you follow your own advice, which is: "and stop putting in some of your scrubby ideas."
Mar, 02/21/2012 - 15:48
#10
We don't need anything nerfed
We don't need anything nerfed at all. Nothing at all, even if they are overpowered, and they are nerfed, the people who asked for the nerf are just gonna start complaining that the nerf wasn't the way they wanted it. And it will mess up the game.
But Buff, yes. Some gear do need to be buffed, such as the troika line and Antigua line (I understand that the antigau line is receiving updates, thank you OOO for that. :)) But they are working on the missions right now, give them a chance. When they are done, they will have more time to read our opinions.
Mar, 02/21/2012 - 16:06
#11
A thing I noticed about MMOs
A thing I noticed about MMOs is that a lot of them feature some level of specialization. In some cases you have a game like WoW in which you can specialize by class, and specialize further by spec. And in other games you usually can at least specialize through choosing your stats and abilities as you progress. A class or an ability that can do too much or offers too much usually gets balanced or nerfed. Some classes get a denerf if they want to give incentive to use that class. Either way it comes, everything has its pros and cons, and one choice shouldn't be VASTLY superior to the other. In short, players shouldn't feel like X is the best choice to make and have it be the only choice without incentive to try other things.
Equipment is what makes for specialization on Spiral Knights, and as an MMO it's no different. There shouldn't be a one-size-fits-all solution for what armor to get and what weapons. Everything should have a mix of pros and con that give people people the want and need to experiment and dabble in a bunch of different things. Balancing is part of that, it takes away from something that offers too much, or gives more to something that has long been overlooked. What would be the point in developing so many weapons if there was only an incentive to get maybe one or two?
No one likes it when their things get nerfed, but sometimes even companies don't get things right the first time. It's easier to see in retrospect that, hey, maybe this wasn't the right thing for the weapon that got made, and so they change it. Blizzard does this with its classes, and Three Rings does this with their equipment. Nobody's perfect and games like these are a work in progress, constantly being fine-tuned and updated.
While you may not like suggestions for balancing the idea of balancing itself has its merits for a video game company. You want to encourage people to try and experiment with different things and you want everything to offer something good. Perhaps if the nerf is too bad there should be some compensation for players who were clearly invested in the item, though I am not sure how such a compensation system would be dealt with.
Mar, 02/21/2012 - 17:00
#12
Asukalanforum-
Would you mind addressing my wall of text that I wrote the other day? Namely points one, three and six.
Mar, 02/21/2012 - 17:21
#13
Actually I want Buffs ..
That
Actually I want Buffs ..
That is for MONSTERS. Just make them stronger. who cares about the wimps :D
If it is to easy people WONT PAY MONEY because whats the point. if they keep nerfing monsters i will be able to do RJP with an pierce weapon like a needle shot
Mar, 02/21/2012 - 17:51
#14
Llan is totally right.
Thread title is "Can people just stop talking about balancing this game already?", but the main body is all about how to balance the game. Self-contradictory post is self-contradictory.
I agree with the actual proposition, though. Buff weak items, then--in a subsequent patch--buff the monsters. Effect: OP gear gets nerfed, but users don't feel that it's been nerfed. Everyone wins.
Mar, 02/21/2012 - 18:01
#15
~
Thinkering with balance keeps them busy and with a job to do until they find a new idea to put in the game. Or so I hope.
Else what, Do they sit in front of a computer playing solitaire and minesweeper until they come up with a new energy promo?
(maybe they do D:)
Mar, 02/21/2012 - 18:32
#16
@ Title of thread.
I thought
@ Title of thread.
I thought we did? Well, here we go again...
@Jaunces
Minesweeper was the ultimate troll game when I was 5. I'd even hit the wrong spot and an AwsomeFace.png would show up in the little square.
Made me rage. On the other hand... Solitare was boss.
Mié, 02/22/2012 - 10:16
#17
Stop talking about
Stop talking about balancing?
1. Go to LD
2. Play 2-3 matches
3. ???
4. 5 new threads about how messed up team balance system is.
Some people want a challenge but don't have the massive amount of CE to get shadow keys and don't want to fight like everyone else. If you keep buffing the weakest stuff, the game is going to be too easy.
On the other hand, nerfing stuff will upset people like you said and a lot of weapons will be considered useless since they got nerfed.
Although, people will be upset no matter what happens.
Wait a minute, I can't keep an opinion on stuff; besides, I find the game quite fun the way it is already. I don't need anything buffed/nerfed/balanced. Guns, swords, and bombs are all fun to use for me.