So Iv'e seen many people using an Argent Peacemaker, however almost no one ever uses the Sentenza. Before anyone says "ARGENT PEACEMAKER FTW" I would like to ask why people tend to prefer AP over Sentenza as both do equal damage with the only difference being elemental and shadow. Also, I have most enemies that are weak to elemental are constructs and undeads which do not dodge as much as gremlins and wolvers do? And constructs are resistant against pierce anyways so Argent Peacemaker wouldn't be a good idea against those.
Argent Peacemaker vs. Sentenza
Wed, 02/22/2012 - 05:07
Wed, 02/22/2012 - 06:42
#2
Because
AP does bonus damage to fiends and undead. Devilites dodge, but they're the only thing in these two families that make an attempt to avoid the AP. The rest (zombies, kats, howlitzers, trojans, and greavers) can be killed with AP. It's not that bad of a gun despite its split damage.
Sentenza does bonus to damage to beasts and gremlins. Everything in these two families dodge the gun - even the puny chromalisks. Using my Blackhawk, even in T2, is extremely tedious and Sentenza is completely pointless until it becomes pure shadow.
Wed, 02/22/2012 - 07:07
#3
Generally, Argent is awesome
Generally, Argent is awesome because FSC, and Sentenza is awesome because LD.
I find that Sentenza is wonderful for sniping menders, as well. They don't dodge as much as other gremlins and tend to hang out near the edges of a group. In the third stages of arenas, they tend to hang out in the middle of the room, so it's not hard to shoot them from anywhere.
Wed, 02/22/2012 - 07:54
#4
I've already demonstrated
I've already demonstrated with a video that there is nothing difficult about shooting beasts and gremlins with Sentenza. That said, my Blitz Needle kills both monster families with much more efficiency so I only use Sentenza to snipe Menders.
Wed, 02/22/2012 - 07:55
#5
has to be said
As Narfle said, please search the forums to find other threads. Everyone eventually collects enough Jelly Gems to reach the point where they ask this question.
Metagenic alluded to this, but let me make it explicit: The game developers are actively considering changing Argent to pure elemental and Sentenza to pure shadow. I would not make any investments in these lines until this change settles out. You may find that these guns are redundant with your other guns.
Wed, 02/22/2012 - 09:12
#6
From a gunner who has both
AP is more popular because its ideal targets are in the more popular areas of the game (FSC in particular) and they generally don't dodge, which by extension makes it easier to learn how to use. Sentenza is, as mentioned, an excellent healer-sniping weapon (as it will deal heavy to moderate damage to both types of healing monster) and is of course good in Lockdown due to its damage types, but takes a little more finesse to use properly due to beast and gremlin dodges. I actually find it more effective to use a gun versus dodging enemies BECAUSE they dodge; while they're trying to evade my attacks, they aren't attacking me or my party, which is a very good thing. This is especially true for t3 wolvers and gremlins, who dodge in very predictable ways:
• T3 wolvers always teleport behind the shooter. Shoot once to force them to teleport behind you, then quickly turn around and unload on them. THis will either knock them over or cause them to teleport again, in which case you can just keep shooting. If your party is savvy to this, they simply wait around you and jump on it when it appears.
• Gremlins always dodge straight backwards. As long as you position yourself ahead of them rather than to the side, all of your bullets will hit, and the enemy will have wasted time moving backwards.
If you're considering one for yourself, AP is a much friendlier option for clockworks (and as an elemental weapon would still be after the proposed change, if it happens), while Sentenza is a better choice for Lockdown (and as a shadow weapon would likewise still be post-shift).
Wed, 02/22/2012 - 15:05
#7
bye bye AP
Well, I don't really like this change. I made AP just to be able to solo Vanaduke. Since AP will be useless against him, guess it's bye bye soloing Vanaduke because I really hate using Blitz since it's too slow when soloing.
Wed, 02/22/2012 - 15:42
#8
Sentenza is more for a pure
Sentenza is more for a pure gunner.
Gunners don't refuse to take it because "AP is more popular because its ideal targets are in the more popular areas of the game" etc. That is an assumption based on an observation.
That would be the case for swordsman... they usually don't take any other gun besides an elemental gun for its purposes.
Pure gunners who like the antigua line would have no reason not to take the Sentenza. That is because, just like swordsman, it is good to cover all specialty damage types. Which means we should have a shadow gun.
Keep in mind that both are pure damage now - Sentenza = slimes and gremlins, AP = constructs and undead. Most people will (but not all people) prefer to use other guns on dodgers.
Wed, 02/22/2012 - 17:56
#9
@Sscorpionn I've solo'd vana
@Sscorpionn I've solo'd vana with my polaris a number of times, I don't see why AP going pure elemental would stop you from doing the same.
Thu, 02/23/2012 - 03:53
#10
Yes I know that the monsters
Yes I know that the monsters that Sentenza are good against dodge almost always but I almost always get them with my blitz needle so wouldn't it be easier with a fast single-shot gun?
Thu, 02/23/2012 - 07:21
#11
It's actually easier with
It's actually easier with Blitz. Dodging monsters don't dodge the initial bullet. With Blitz you'll often stunlock the target in place, whereas with Antigua you need to keep adjusting your aim to follow the target after the first shot. It's not hard to deal with either weapon, though.
Wed, 04/04/2012 - 00:16
#12
all rounder
soo in all rounder and for pure gunners sentenza is a better choice and from my experience and dont know whats so didfficult to shoot gremlins there so easy to hit try it before u say it guys senenza is really easy to hit gremlins
Wed, 04/04/2012 - 00:25
#13
I use blackhawk as a sidearm
I use blackhawk as a sidearm for stages such as RJP ,Decon zones and OCH.i am hoping to make a sentenza very soon and use it to thrash jellies
Wed, 04/04/2012 - 00:29
#14
I use blackhawk as a sidearm
I use blackhawk as a sidearm for stages such as RJP ,Decon zones and OCH.i am hoping to make a sentenza very soon and use it to thrash jellies
Fri, 05/25/2012 - 12:50
#15
Sentenza
I prefer Sen as it is Shadow, and strong on Gremlins and Slimes, the monsters I kill the most.
Fri, 05/25/2012 - 13:41
#16
-
Strong awareness of original post date there Freezestyle.
This is going to confuse the hell out of people because the OP was made before split damage was changed.
Fri, 05/25/2012 - 13:48
#17
Firstly
Firstly AP no longer does Piercing dmg, secondly allot of people use senteza,LD, gunners think about it.
Sat, 05/26/2012 - 13:35
#18
senti>ap
ap is excelled by polaris in almost every situation except for single target dps and mecha knights imo.
senti is great for gremlisn (especially bombers) and lockdown
i personally use senti more frequently than ap
Sat, 05/26/2012 - 15:24
#19
Argent Peacemaker
The bonus against undeads and contstructs is just too good to pass up.
Lumbers, gunpuppies, mechs, etc.
Hoards of undead who get bunched up for a big damage AOE eagle.
Sat, 09/14/2013 - 19:20
#20
Both Great Weapons
The sentenza is shadow which I prefer, because most weapons are elemental and I already have 3 elemental weapons. The argent peacemaker is great because the elemental is great against the slag walkers in the FSC. They both have extremely high attack speed and decent damage in total. I think they are 2 of the best guns in the game. I do recemend getting one! :D
Sat, 09/14/2013 - 20:02
#21
Don't you Squires know a dead thread when you see it?
Sat, 09/14/2013 - 20:13
#22
Holy uber bump batman!
Holy uber bump batman!
Sat, 09/14/2013 - 20:37
#23
Oh the memories! I remember when the 4*/5* Antiguas did half pierce damage!
I also remember celebrating in the streets, shouting proclamations of joy when they got changed.
Mon, 09/16/2013 - 23:47
#24
Darn right son.
Darn right son.
Tue, 09/17/2013 - 08:04
#25
I like how they were for two reasons:
1. They were more unique. Now they're mostly Umbra/Nova for scrubs.
2. It was more consistent. Now we have a Piercing gun that goes either Shadow or Elemental. It makes little sense.
Tue, 09/17/2013 - 12:20
#26
I think it was because the damage was glitchy against enemies that were both weak and resistant to them.
Take wolvers for example. AP is elemental, which they resist, and piercing, which they're weak to.
Otherwise why do they not seem to mind split normal damage?
Tue, 09/17/2013 - 12:39
#27
@Batabii
Only the display is buggy. I don't see how it's glitchy. It just calculates the damages separately and adds them together just like it's done with split normal/specialised weapons as far as I know.
Tue, 09/17/2013 - 12:45
#28
not sure why this was necroed, but okay...
Because resistance penalties are bigger than vulnerability bonuses, the split special-special weapons were pretty bad (i.e. worse than neutral) against monsters that were resistant and vulnerable.
Due to how damage is calculated, split normal-special weapons are generally better than pure special weapons. I mean, their vulnerability bonus is just as large, but their resistance penalty is half as large. See studies like these:
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/User:Exasperation
Damage against Lost Souls at D24
Tue, 09/17/2013 - 12:46
#29
The old antiguas were situational at best.
Split special damage was fine in theory, but the damage loss due to the wrong damage type is/was more than the damage gained from exploiting the target's weakness. This was also before guns (and bombs) got a universal damage increase, roughly equal to a +dam med bonus. As a result, the 5* weapons were only doing about 100 damage per shot on the families they were good against, and were unusable against anything else. Their damage bars were also less than most other weapons (The RSS had a LOT more punch to it, which is why the split specialized damage worked for it).
The only part I liked was how the "holy" Argent Peacemaker was good against the evil fiends and undead, while the "evil" Sentenza was only good against Beasts (basic animals at best), and Gremlins (the closest to civilized enemies in the game).
I for one was overjoyed at the change, and as soon as Sk finished updating, I did an IMF run with full Nameless, a Sent, an AP, without a shield, and spent the whole time pretending to be a cowboy shooting robots.
Sounds like you've already answered your own question: AP already has limited applications, but Sentenza even more so, as yes, the enemies that it would do the most dmg to (wolvers and gremlins) will dodge it. I hardly ever use my AP outside of FSC, and I don't know what people would use a Sentenza for--maybe LD? There have been many threads on this topic in the past, however, and you should be able to find them by running a quick search.