Spiral Knights - Prestigious knights = P2P players?

Prestigious knights = P2P players?

20 replies [Last post]

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 14:39

Aumir

Well, it seems that OOO has done it again. Again, what will make some Knights stand before others is "Prestige points". This comes from doing missions, and we seem to be able to them, everyone. This seems all fine, right?

WRONG.

As you go up in ranks, Prestige Missions change. And you will begin to see that they ask you to give supply to "other knights" (read, NPC) and for what I have seen until now, they can ask you:

- Cautery Sword
- Mega Magnus

Really, OOO? Are we supposed to get in a day the CE (and heat!) required to craft those weapons to get those "prestige points" that will give in the future "knights with X quantity" a reward? Why don't you directly give that reward to the people who pay you? I am not against it, but please, tell us now and not later. Of course p2p players can get their costumes etc, I am not against p2p players, but don't put a "mission mode which gives future rewards" and sugar-coat something which later will bite us f2p players back.

With this, I am also afraid that Expansion missions will be "Shadow Lair" cost areas. At least, once you pay them, you are free to go each and every time you want.
...Right?

Thanks for the missions anyways, but please think more of what you are asking the f2p playerbase to do. I hope you correct this as I don't think is fair at all.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 14:48

Nodocchi

Why do you assume it is only

Why do you assume it is only P2P players that will be able to afford this? There are many rich F2P players who probably wouldn't mind spending that much CE in a day since they have absurd amounts saved up. The equation is more like Prestigious knights = rich players. Doesn't matter whether they are P2P or F2P, the ones who can afford it are the rich players.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 14:48

Kalaina-Elderfall

I don't think it's so much

I don't think it's so much p2p as like "super rich without much sense and/or seriously wanting to brag about your high prestige numbers." I've put a fair amount of money into this game and there's no way I'm tossing them a 4* for 200 prestige points.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 14:55

Nordlead

There are some F2P that hit

There are some F2P that hit the crafting jackpot (say Flourish ASI Very High selling for 30-40kce). I've spent a grand total of $6 for 2kce back during the holiday sale and I've earned WAY more than that selling crafted items, yet I'm still only "middle class" and I'm P2P. I already said in another thread I won't trade in 3* or higher items and I won't trade in expensive mats (mostly the 1kcr or more 4-5* mats).

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 15:27

Duke-Sky

-1

Would not read again.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 16:53

Traevelliath

Stop complaining

Stop complaining about P2P players. Without them, the CE market would be nonexistent. In fact, the P2P players who pour hundreds of dollars into this game per month are the people you should be THANKING for the CE price being what it is.

If anything, its the number of F2P players that raise the CE price, because they are talking CE out of the market and never putting it back in.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:19

Pepperonius

Today it asked me for a heavy pulsar

I said no thanks. Why on earth am i going to waste that for prestige? i'm not. 2* fine, but a heavy pulsar is a bit much, i think. FWIW i am fairly well off, and P2P. If you think that pay to players (or rich players) sit around and light our expenisve cigars with lit crowns, you are sadly mistaken. Rich players get rich by making wise investments, not by tossing away the equivalent of 50 k crowns so we can get 100 prestige points.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:25

Juances

So long prestige doesnt give you a super armor or super sword, then it's fine.

A random rank to bragg about or a fancy regalia chapeau shouldnt affect the game playability for anyone.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 17:29

Aumir

@Traevelliath

Hey, I am not complaining about p2p players, did you read my post, Traevelliath? Instead, if you read a bit more, you would actually see that you will have to spend every day CE to make a weapon, and heat it if it is high level. Only rich players WITH time will be able to attain that (or rich players with the Depot, but that would make you waste more energy ).

Also, I actually praised p2p players, and as I said I am not against you buying packs and getting those customes for us f2p to buy them with earned crowns. I am actually thankful for being able to buy such things, so stop being so defensive, please. And thanks for keeping the game alive, of course.

I just want OOO to reconsider those missions, I am not against giving minerals, materials, etc.... but not making weapons, that is too harsh. For everyone, as you can see from replies from other p2p players here. The only generalization is in my topic title, and it is actually a question, as again, people are not comfortable with that.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:22

Guyinshinyarmour

I got a Cold Iron Carver for a mission. I doubt there's ANYONE that would pay that, P2P or not. I had hoped they would just have you turn in commonly ragecrafted gear once this thing went live. Seems not.

Though yes, Expansion missions are sounding like they'll be more in tune with expansion packs/DLC in other games. In that you have to shell out $5-10 worth of CE for them. So get saving. Least it's not a recurring cost like SL.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 18:51

#10

Vanbamf

I've hit a wall with the

I've hit a wall with the prestige missions. Along with most others, I refuse to donate my 4 star equipment for 200 prestige points. So that leaves me with just the daily missions, earning only 80 prestige. Okay. A F2P knight that hasn't leveled their knight up, can do both the 'explore prestige mission' for 80 prestige and the 'turn in gear mission' for an additional 50 - a total of 130 per day. So a P2P is limited to 80 per day and the F2P can obtain 130 per day (as long as they don't rank up with their regular missions). This is disappointing. In 30 days time, a F2P will have achieved 3900 from prestige missions (plus whatever rank missions they've done, roughly 500) equaling 4400, a P2P would have only achieved 2400 from prestige missions (plus rank prestige of roughly 2100) equaling 4500. This is just a rough idea, but definitely after 2 months time of the daily prestige missions, a F2P will surpass a P2P in prestige. I'm really confused by this point system and the restrictions on the P2P knight. I thought by playing the game, and purchasing CE, it would make things easier, not harder. And if i level up my knight past defender, does that mean I have to donate 5 star gear on a daily basis? I didn't play the missions to prove how rich I was, or how much CE I'm willing to burn. Now I regret locking myself into a corner.
Oh, and tomorrow's daily prestige that asks for some gear is only asking for 3 common materials for 50 prestige points. I'm sure at midnight that will change to a 4 star weapon instead.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 19:10

#11

Ginungagap

@vanbamf

Your analysis is correct except you didn't account for the fact that you sometimes receive missions that do NOT require the turning in of items. Sometimes it's equivalent star material. So this would decrease costs considerably. So yes, if you ONLY received item turn ins, your analysis would be correct, but that is just not the case.

Also, that assumes that F2P players won't ever finish the missions? I'm not sure why you're assuming that.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 20:11

#12

Tantarian

How about you don't do those missions then?
Prestige is meaningless at the moment, it's just a number.
This is probably just an attempt at having another crown sink. It might work for many.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 21:27

#13

Nodocchi

As you rank up, it gets more

As you rank up, it gets more expensive to get more prestige, it is as simple as that. And in Vanbamf's example, the F2P player would eventually reach the same rank as the P2P player and face the same wall since I'm pretty sure rank is calculated based on prestige points and not how many main story missions you've done.

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 21:43

#14

Vanbamf

@Ginungagap

@Ginungagap
I'm accounting for the fact that, as of the moment, the prestige missions include 1 mission where you explore the clockworks, and 1 mission where you turn items in for prestige. For the past 2 days, including the changing of said missions upon completion of ranks, the missions assigned to me were exactly that - 1 exploring mission and 1 'turn in gear' mission. My estimates accounted for that being the exact scenario each day for prestige. The higher your rank, the harder/more expensive the prestige missions become. Regardless, it was much easier to complete 'turn in gear' when I didn't rank up my knight. If I would've known of the downside of ranking up, I wouldn't have done so.

@Tantarian
Too late. I would very much like to do missions. Isn't this the point? Again, if I would've known of the penalties, I wouldn't have done the missions and kept the prestige at a more manageable price. Unfortunately, I've done the missions and can't reverse my rank. They've made it impossible for myself to afford. And I guess that is the question of this thread... what is the point of prestige? Should we care that a F2P will have more than a P2P? I have no idea, and it's speculation on anyone's part here. If it results in a knight receiving a special item after 30 days upon obtaining 5000 prestige, wouldn't it tick a few people off if you couldn't get it because you were P2P?

Thu, 02/23/2012 - 21:49

#15

Venomousbiohazard

I am f2p.

I currently have 2k Ce and 70k. This is because of luck and trolling the Ah and reselling later. A F2p as well p2p can do it it just takes more work.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 06:25

#16

Ginungagap

@Vanbamf

You're completely ignoring the fact that those are not the only secondary prestige missions. Yes, every day you will have some type of fighting prestige mission, but you will NOT have a turn in gear mission every day! I have only had one so far, today's mission for me was to turn in a few shards and tomorrow's is to turn in some minerals. There are several other types of secondary missions, and while the armaments one has ridiculous requirements I will agree, especially at higher levels, that does not mean that you will never get to do the second prestige mission for a day. It looks like just bad luck for you so far.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 08:43

#17

Nodocchi

@VanbamfI am sad. You did

@Vanbamf
I am sad. You did not read my post. Here I'll copy and paste it for you: "in Vanbamf's example, the F2P player would eventually reach the same rank as the P2P player and face the same wall since I'm pretty sure rank is calculated based on prestige points and NOT on how many main story missions you've done."

@Aumir
It is supposed to be harsh, this isn't kindergarten where everyone gets a gold star for effort. If the prestige system is to actually work in distinguishing the best players (in this case the richest) from the rest, then it should be something that is difficult for the majority of the playerbase to do. As well I see no reason not to reward the richest players, since they either put a lot more effort into the game than everyone else or paid OOO a lot more money.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:47

#18

Aumir

Well

An update: Today's missions asked me materials, but prestige points for that mission weren't that high. It seems that either it is bugged and doesn't count your own rank when passing to "the next day" or those missions are rare or something? If someone who was at max level can check it too we could know if it is a bug or something expected and those missions are few and far between. Which in the last case, it would still not be nice/fair/insertwordhere.

@Nodocchi: As I said, I don't care if it is what they had in mind, I like Mission Mode; but OOO sort of has lied us in saying that they would be possible to do by everyone, and a money wall that could be spammed throughout days isn't an orthodox/fair/nice/other method for people to earn "prestige points" and seek the promised future rewards. If this is what they want I would like a clear answer from the higher-ups, and stop puzzling myself into thinking that it seems to be yet another money throwing trap. Because even if you have a fortune in crowns by some chance, if you had to craft a 4* (or 5* in the future) everyday or buy it from the overly buffed Depot prices, you will have to spend money in the game eventually... I just want to know.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 13:56

#19

Mohandar

I think that is intentional,

I think that is intentional, Prestige missions that ask for equipment yield more points than those asking for materials.

Fri, 02/24/2012 - 15:57

#20

Vanbamf

So my bad luck is over with

So my bad luck is over with those secondary prestige missions. I am fully ranked by the rank missions, to level 7 (Defender) and now those missions are back to an earlier rank difficulty with requirements of 3 common materials. So now my assumptions are that if you rank yourself up quickly within one day, the system allows you to do the prestige missions repeatedly, each progressively more demanding. It starts with common materials (50 prestige), then a 2 star bomb (100 prestige), 3 star bomb (150 prestige), and finally a 4 star gun (for 200 prestige). Now it's back to the common materials for 50 prestige, after a day of not ranking up. Tomorrow's for me is 2 common mats (50 pres).
Is it random? Does rank level dictate your prestige missions? I'm not sure yet.
And I apologize for interchanging F2P/P2P with 3star/5star knights. I saw the system as favoring a 3 star knight over a 5 star knight.
The rank levels are directly related to your equipment levels, not how much money you spend. However the more CE you own, the easier it is to level up and rank up. F2P can definitely finish the missions, if/when they have 4 star gear. From my situation I was envying the 3star knight, where prestige missions were easier to complete. But now, that's not the case, as we are getting approximately the same missions, and my analysis goes completely out the window, (hurray!)
So, everything looks to be good now and I hope things stay this way. *phew*

@Nodocchi
I didn't overlook your post. I just didn't have time to respond yet, sorry. Rank is calculated by the story missions. Prestige is just a bonus number, that you can gain from both rank missions and prestige missions.

Search

Prestigious knights = P2P players?