Spiral Knights - Increase the range on certian guns

Increase the range on certian guns

10 replies [Last post]

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 23:56

Amnimonus

I think that the range on certain gun models should be increased to the same length of a vial (or at least as long as enemies can shoot) with the exception of the polaris (I always thought of it as a shot gun).

Reasons for this: It feel kind of odd that we can through pot and vials about twice as far (if not more) as we can shoot bullets. I know it a game and game dont need to have logic but gun that are that short range just seems weird.

I also think the range of guns should very between the gun. For example polaris should continue have the same rage but guns like antiguas and blitz needle should have longer ranges, and guns with only twp shot magazines (like the callahan) should have the longest range.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 00:16

Sonicfanlol

This can't be possible. The

This can't be possible. The guns are this range for a reason. If you shot your gun forever into space, all the enemies would die easily. The game is meant to be challenging, not easy and boring.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 01:09

Severage

@Scrolax:

Vials have a loong range. They go way off the screen. If all guns had this capability, you could just barrage all the enemies with 4 gunners from a ridiculous distance.

The Polaris is anything BUT a shotgun, because shotguns are more powerful at short range..

It can be a bit odd that we can throw farther than we can shoot, but think of it this way...almost all guns use a sort of Energy (As in elemental power, or shadow powers), so assume that they diffuse at a fairly short distance. The only exception is the Antigua, which use slightly more projectile-based ammunition. Still, it only makes sense that we can't shoot farther than we can see, at least in a game.

~Sev

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 01:27

Ulmyr

Going to have to disagree here. As illogical as it seems, some acceptable breaks from reality are needed for video games to be enjoyable and increasing the range on guns to extend across the screen wouldn't serve much of a concrete purpose ingame.

Due to the limited range of sight on the screens, if implemented I don't see a huge amount of good to come from it. It'd be a huge buff to guns and gun-users, but would end up making sniping many areas with remote switches that are supposed to be unhittable significantly easier and it'd also play havoc with PvP balance and Lockdown would be filled with complaints of people getting killed from off-screen projectiles that they couldn't see coming. It'd also end up making a lot of the increased range pointless, especially since if it extended offscreen it wouldn't matter since you couldn't see what you were shooting anyways.

Argue all you want about whether guns are underpowered or not, but I think the bad would outweigh the good from buffing guns in this manner.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 01:40

Amnimonus

i also mentioned

I also mentioned that if they can at least shoot just as far as enemy bullets which shoot a bit further than our bullets.

Another thing i said that it should vary between guns so the only gun i expected to shoot the distance of a vial was the magnus line

@ Severage I know most bullets are energy based (with the exception of blitz needle, magnus, and antiguas) but so do gun pupies and they shoot further than we do.
and polaris is like a shot gun in the sense that the bullet get wider (the sense that the bullet spreads) although i ould prefer an actual shot gun.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 01:47

Sonicfanlol

@Ulmyr

It doesn't matter if it needs to be a break from reality...the developers made the guns the way they are for specific reasons, 1 of them being that if they have more range, you can shoot all your enemies willie-nillie until they all die off-screen....kinds cheap.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 01:54

Ulmyr

@Sonicfanlol

I assume that it goes without saying that balance with this suggestion would go to some place very dark and scary. Doubling or tripling the range of guns would not come without balance issues, especially since Clockworks floors are designed with the current average range in mind and that'd facilitate some ridiculous bugs were it to happen.

And suddenly guns would be the go-to since in any non-crowded area you'd probably be able to kill mobs without even aggroing them beforehand. Even if you did, you could probably rack up enough damage over time to kill them before they got near you.

The 'break from reality' comment was more an argument stating that it doesn't really matter if it's illogical or not, it's needed for game balance, and that should be a priority in a game when we're already shadowy, genderless knights on an artificial planet made out of gears shooting dark matter and photons, and wielding swords bigger than we are. And creating black holes with bombs.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 23:24

Amnimonus

@Umyr

Each game has its on laws of physics. This game seems to contradict its on logic.

Now all of you seem to undermine the fact that i set parameters for the distance of range increase, i said that it should be the same range as a vial (about over 20 squares more) or at least the same range as enemy turrets (which is about 3 to 6 squares more). all of you seem to be paying attention to the vial range only.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 23:56

Demonicsothe

What enemy in this game has

What enemy in this game has an attack similar to knights? Other than fire mecha charge attacks, I see nothing similar. Who are you to say gun puppy shots are of the same substance as alchemers? I don't see where the logic is contradictory.

People concentrated on vials because of what you said in op. And vials have a huge range. You want that on a blitz? Gg lockdown.

More range is a buff, but the same idea of this game being easier and thus not fun is still here.

Mon, 02/27/2012 - 00:30

Amnimonus

sigh

You guys continue undermine the parameters i set up, Let me make it clearer, i would like the range to be increased, at least the same length as enemy bullets but no more than vial.

Let me add one more thing I also want the range of enemy bullets even to be increased thus making it harder to avoid bullets.

I'm for making the game more difficult because it makes it funner but I also like weapon buffs (for example the buff on the brandish series). However I do think that with every weapon buff enemies should be buffed up as well (example give gremlins bullet proof armor).

Mon, 02/27/2012 - 04:03

#10

Alchemystic

The parameters you keep

The parameters you keep talking about are impractical. Our responses are based on experience.

You don't want to increase the range of enemy bullets. In Tier 3, turrets shoot 5 projectiles in 5 different directions per attack. It is already very tough to dodge them when 8 turrets spawn in the third room of an arena. Increasing the range means it will be impossible to dodge a cloud of 40 bullets that are flying in your general direction. A 5 star shield of the appropriate damage type wouldn't be able to withstand such a barrage. It gets worse if you account for status effects. If one bullet inflicts a status effect on you, it is extremely difficult to get rid of while defending against a cloud of bullets because subsequent bullets can reapply the status effect. Even though I used the third room of an arena as an example, there are many other places in the Clockworks where the same challenges apply.

For the most part, bullets from enemies travel slower than guns. This allows you to dodge or shield against them. If you want to hit an enemy but remain outside their range, use the charge attack of your guns. The charged shot of most guns have more range than normal shots.

Buffing weapons and buffing enemies is pointless. Nothing fundamentally changes even though a lot of time and effort would be needed to implement them. It only creates the temporary illusion of actual change. Increasing difficulty does not result in more fun. It just creates the potential for situations where you will feel the game is cheating. There are already a lot of concerns about the "fairness" of devilites and greavers.

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Increase the range on certian guns