I think handguns combos should follow the same rules as swords combos - last hit should deal extra damage.
Last hit in combo should deal more damage (handguns)
Sun, 02/26/2012 - 14:26
Sun, 02/26/2012 - 16:00
#2
I rarely use this strategy. I
I rarely use this strategy. I know some players thinks it's "the only way" but I don't find it any more efficient.
Anyway, it would be more consistent with swords' combos - you would have a choice at least - either do extra damage and end combo or skip last hit. Players cancel last hit with swords too in some situations, so it would be just like with swords - having last hit more powerful doesn't make last-hit-canceling obsolete.
Sun, 02/26/2012 - 17:49
#3
This has been discussed
This has been discussed before; all bullets in a clip are of equal size/ strength /composition, etc. that is why there is no bonus damage from the first shot to the last. The extra damage in a sword combo comes from the strength and momentum built up in the combo (as in real life).
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 04:06
#4
I must have overlooked this
I must have overlooked this discussion probably.
Anyway it's game combat design, not real life physics.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 04:42
#5
I think this should be done
I think this should be done differently per gun.
P.e.:
- 100% chance for 2shot status guns to inflict status on second shot, reduce (or even remove) chance for 1rst shot.
- More damage / knockback / knockdown-flinch-thing for second shots of non-status 2shot guns.
- Maybe make the last shot of SOME 3+shot guns a "special bulled" that does slightly more damage & knockback, but not for all of them.
Anyway it's game combat design, not real life physics.
Exactly. Also Offtopic: It's not even impossible to make the first or last bullet of "RL clips" special :P and sometimes it might even make sense because you know, you'll have to change the clip before/afterwards ;).
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 04:57
#6
Better make gun's origin do
Better make gun's origin do damage too. So when u shoot someone VERY close he gets additional damage and push... like small explo.
@ Melisan.
U said : "The extra damage in a sword combo comes from the strength and momentum built up in the combo (as in real life)." I dont think u hav experience of swordfighting in REAL life dude... There is NO COMBOS here lol...Sometimes u can even get killed 1 hit.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 05:08
#7
So when u shoot someone VERY
So when u shoot someone VERY close he gets additional damage and push.
That would be something entirely else and something that would have to be done per gun, too. It'd be a good option for p.E. valiance but NOT under any circumstances for polaris. ;)
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 06:17
#8
@ Ufana.
Yeh. Forgot to
@ Ufana.
Yeh. Forgot to mention that this can be applied not to all gunz. I meant all gunz which drop bulletcasez. They suppose to use explo powder to shoot, so small explo is normal thing here.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 13:41
#9
Triplescrew
"I dont think u
Triplescrew
"I dont think u hav experience of swordfighting in REAL life dude... There is NO COMBOS here lol...Sometimes u can even get killed 1 hit"
Ok firstly please use correct spelling if you are going to talk nonsense. When you learn to fight, you learn set moves or combinations (combos). Heavier swords DO build momentum with successive attacks and this can be used to finish a fight with a powerful (usually) downwards strike which even if blocked can put an opponent on his/her ass. My wife fought (medieval) re- enactment battles for many years using a broad sword.
Oh and it's guns not gunz.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 14:24
#10
-
Weighing the pros and cons of this suggestion...
Pros:
- Decent buff to guns, which is something many have clamored for
- Does not buff strafing to guns, only DPS
- Gives a more concrete reason to use the last hit in the combo; right now, even with the Drivers, it's quicker to just do one shot and repeat rather than touch the second shot
- The buff isn't so huge that it'd imbalance guns
- May not be a break from reality given the subtext of guns in the background saying that they use Mist to shoot
Cons:
- A much larger buff for two-shot guns like the Alchemers and Polaris than the four+ shots like the Antigua series, and may possibly lead to imbalance there
- May end up encouraging poor strafing tactics
- Right now guns are the low risk, low reward weapon; buffing their damage may end up disrupting that balance
- Debate on whether guns are fairly balanced or not at the moment
- Equipment is already somewhat powerful compared to monsters in the Clockworks and a buff applying to all of a weapon type may lead to more imbalance that already exists
- A small break from reality, which arguably doesn't matter in a game with weapons feeding off of energy and growing stronger near its source, killer jellies, undead skull turrets that shoot dark matter, and wearing animal hides increasing your attack speed/power
I think that it'd be something that could be tested in the Test Server since I see enough good things for gun users to end up possibly making it useful (especially the fact that firing your whole clip would now out-DPS firing your entire clip minus one shot and then refiring for most guns), but I have a lot of reservations about just throwing it ingame, for balance concerns and the fact that the pros aren't really something that immediately warrants implementation. Even so, I don't think it should be a huge buff to damage - maybe only about 10-20% - and I don't quite agree with alternate last-shot buffs such as more knockback distance/interruption chance and more chance to inflict status.
Right now I think that guns have reached a decent balance (apart from outliers like the Iron Slug, Polaris, and Neutralizer), but if the idea works, it works - nevermind that it wouldn't buff strafing too much and gunners could then supplement their party with higher DPS when mobility isn't a huge concern.
Though I'd really like to see this in practice before I support it.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 14:32
#11
Waffles
@Melisan : ummm.... "gunz" is internet slang, when it comes to the internet you can get away with miss-spelling, seriously don't try and correct people unless you can tell if they are miss-spelling accidentally. Me, i sometimes use internet slang, but for the most part i like to try spell correctly. It would be real bad if i accidentally used internet slang on my school assignments :3
I am all for making a game real life like, but i think i would prefer for the last shot to deal extra damage. so +1
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 14:35
#12
@Serell
Ummm.... There is no excuse for poor spelling or grammar, and the last bullet in a gun will do no more damage than the first.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 14:40
#13
@Melisan : This is the
@Melisan : This is the internet. That is all i have to say >.>
Yeah in real life guns don't deal extra damage on the last hit, and i generally prefer games to be life-like, but i really think this would be good for SK.
Oh well, we all have our opinions.
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 14:45
#14
@Serell: "This is the
@Serell: "This is the internet. That is all i have to say >.>" Well isn't it sad that that is actually a valid excuse for ignorance?
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 14:47
#15
Well, i guess it is kinda
Well, i guess it is kinda sad. But itz sometimez fwun to talkz wierd and wafflez and stuff wikez thwat :3
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 15:17
#16
I iz gonna getz you for thatz
I iz gonna getz you for thatz
Mon, 02/27/2012 - 15:19
#17
Wow first ever double post,
Wow first ever double post, damn you wifi connection.
Wed, 02/29/2012 - 03:58
#18
"There is no reason why the
"There is no reason why the last bullet in a clip should do more than the first"
If we are going to bring realism into the debate, then consider this: Howcome we can fire shot after shot with the reload-cancel but as soon as we fire twice in a row we have to reload? (using alchemer's case for this example) You could try to explain it in that firing slowly allows the gun to recharge but that implies that the gun is an energy weapon (which it is) and you have to "shake/spin" it to get more energy, like one would do with a glowstick at a rave party. This brings up an oppurtunity to add in a "power surge" debate in which the second shot is a boosted version of the first, and depletes the clip, so you have to spin the gun in order to shake up the chemicals to allow the gun to be able to fire again.
Wed, 02/29/2012 - 07:11
#19
Isn't that just the charge
Isn't that just the charge attack Hex? In energy transfers, there are resistors which keep things steady and stop too much power from entering the said object. Maybe the alchemer guns have an overclocking function (i.e. Variable resistor) to allow for the charge attack.
Wed, 02/29/2012 - 07:42
#20
The charge attack is some
The charge attack is some sort of alternate power-up method which allows the clip to temporarily hold more energy than normal. The battery of the alchemer usually charges at a pace quick enough to fire off one shot then wait, another shot then wait, but when performing a charge attack, the ability to fire is sacrificed so that the battery can charge either more than its max, a.k.a overcharge, or charges a secondary power reserve that is usually kept empty. After this power reserve is full, the energy is released and the battery returns to its normal single shot, then charge function, or two shots to deplete then spin to regenerate.
Would it be worth to do a bit of extra damage?
Cancelling the last bullet to avoid reload is always a good strategy.