"CE prices have ri"

I read until that, then I stopped reading, looked at the comments, and posted this one. Then I went and read a little more on the OP, and still see no difference

I completely Disagree.
Ignoring the facts, and knowing that over 9000 complaints on CE prices and P2P vs F2P, FYI if you are really struggling with the game then just pay 5 dollars and support OOO, and knowing that this thread is no different, I will support the opposite of what you assume is happening because, just like in the past, my opinion will not change on this matter.

On the other hand I like the new mission system and am planning on getting an expansion pack later this week.

And claiming that all players require and deserve all the content, i.e expansion packs, in the game is not the best argument, since I can say that there are many players who have made a negative impact on the game's community and do not deserve everything they wish to aquire in the game.

So now that my post is finished, I wish you have a good day here on out and bid you goodnight from where I live.

I honestly wouldn't even have complained about this expansion mission if we had gotten f2p content along with it.
The only new content in the mission update was Blades of the Fallen, battlepods, and knockers.
Blades of the Fallen is so short it barely counts, after the new factor wore off to me knockers became about as interesting to fight as scuttlebots, and battlepods just take time.

The gremlins that look more interesting at a glance are p2p, the new levels have way more content than Blades of the Fallen, and have an actual boss.
Then there's new weapon and a new armor piece, both p2p.

With this major skew of content towards p2p, OOO has managed to make the mission system have one purpose only: to allow p2p expansion missions to be distributed.
In other words, OOO has spent quite some time now preparing for major p2p aspects and almost no time on f2p. This offends me.

I was going to buy a new elevator pass when my current one expires in a week, but now I'm just not sure I'll get my money's worth put of it without spending even more.
For now, you have lost my $6 a month, OOO.

F2P means you don't sink money into the system. I think that OOO might have a trick up their sleeve, so I don't want to assume yet. The new update has some cool things, so I believe that it is worth the $3.95. You get new content, plus new equips. Pretty good deal if you ask me.

Zeph: The "deal" is what's bugging a lot of people. Many players, especially those who do not buy large amounts of CE, like to earn their rewards, rather than buy them outright. When developers separate players from content unless they pay an entry fee, that annoys many people, but isn't a big problem overall...usually. Spiral Knights is a special case, in that a large proportion of its player base has come to expect that everyone will always be able to access all of the content with enough CE, especially new content. The usual tolerance for extra missions found in many games' DLC packs these days doesn't seem to apply to SK.

Not only that, but there are many new rewards that are only accessible to paying players. Those rewards are not just cosmetic in nature, but actually impact gameplay mechanics and are unobtainable by players who do not want to fork over "premium" payment. (Quotes because it's only four dollars, but it's the principle of the thing)

I reiterate my hunch that the reason OOO has made this expansion cash-only instead of following their usual game design model of a steep, yet achievable CE price tag comes as a business decision, possibly influenced by their relationship to Steam, without regard for a large (and apparently vocal) portion of the player base.

I'm going to lose it.

@Allunova:
Eh, CE isn't 7.5k right now, is it? I remember CE prices like that before the Steam 'release' of Spiral Knights.
If it's lower than 7k, I'm fine with the prices.

I don't think there will be as significant of a backlash - a lot of murmuring, but unless you can convince a significant portion of the frequent CE-buying players and prospective CE-buying players to boycott, I doubt you'll garner attention. I'm a little bothered by the patch, but in all honesty since I've started playing again (I stopped from August - January for school), the only new things I've touched have been Lockdown and accessories. For now, the majority of the game can still be played F2P/ignoring the CE-heavy content, and I will still continue to stay F2P until circumstances change and I lose significant blocks of free time.

---
But lol @ this premium content.

I really think the following quote sums up the feeling:
"When developers separate players from content unless they pay an entry fee, that annoys many people, but isn't a big problem overall...usually. Spiral Knights is a special case, in that a large proportion of its player base has come to expect that everyone will always be able to access all of the content with enough CE, especially new content. The usual tolerance for extra missions found in many games' DLC packs these days doesn't seem to apply to SK.

Not only that, but there are many new rewards that are only accessible to paying players. Those rewards are not just cosmetic in nature, but actually impact gameplay mechanics and are unobtainable by players who do not want to fork over "premium" payment. (Quotes because it's only four dollars, but it's the principle of the thing)"

@Stelli
It's not the price. It's how the content was released. It's awesome, but this time you MUST pay to play for it. It's a huge change in the player economy.

@Stelli
That fixes stuff for Steam, but what about nonSteam? (I don't use Steam) If this can be transfered via gifting w/ purchase, that would be a little better, but still someone must pay or the Expansion. It's still a new dent in the economy.

@knightrails

you are obviously wrong, i'm non steam and i paid with paypal to open up my expansion right when it was released.

I think you mean that non-steam F2Pers have no chance of access to the new content.

Likely there will come a time in the future where u can get the content via ce instead of $$$.
If it is just a delay until you can play it, then surely (altho alienating) you can understand the validity of that.

Just for a point of reference, IMO it should have been ce purchasable for like 5k ce or even 10k. That way friends could help friends etc. Also, that ce came from all the money paid in for wings, auras, etc. But...it is what it is.

I don't really see your point. CE is functional as a currency so long as it functions in the way it was promised to function. It still functions in the same manner as it used to function. It does not function for the new content, but that does not invalidate it's previous functions. So long as it's functions exist, it has value. It has no value in relation to the purchase of new content (Which through steam trade it does, but let's not get into that.), but it still has value for the functions that the CE was purchased for.

Hell, the simplest way to prove your point would be if everyone stopped using CE as currency in Bazaar because it's now worthless. So go ahead and prove me wrong. Because if it's still functioning as trade currency, then it still has value and hasn't become worthless.

Worried that your CE isn't worth anything any more? Please, let me take that worthless pseudo-currency off your hands.

"I don't really see your point."

CE is purchased with real money, right?

Before the Expansion Missions there's nothing really that couldn't be bought with CE, right?

But now the Expansion Missions cannot be bought with CE, the first real time something can't be bought with CE, right?

Which is it better to have now to purchase things with, CE or real money?

CE has been devalued. Sure it has not been made completely worthless, but it's not as strong as it was before the Expansion Missions. Will it get devalued more in the future? If they continue to release things you have to pay real money for, then yes....CE will continue to become more devalued.

-------------------

Now separate issue. Depending on the player, the player maybe an endgame player who doesn't need to craft gear anymore and all the other stuff CE can buy pre-expansion missions. Now their CE just sits there.....worth the real money paid for it but nothing to spend it on. Out comes the new Expansion Missions.....oh sorry can't buy it with CE even though that CE is supposed to represent real money. What would this player think about their CE?

Any unused CE in the game is un-earned money by OOO in my opinion.

But hey if you think CE is still so valuable.....why don't you trade me some real money for it at the same exchange rate as the energy depot? (Hypothetically speaking of course).

Now that I think of it, you couldn't really use CE to buy anything that did require money. Dragon wings? Elevator passes? Promotions? Exclusive items?

With the exception of the Elevator Pass, Dragon Wings and such could be bought in a round about way in-game with CE. Somebody puts the Dragon Wings up in the AH, I sell my CE for crowns and buy it from the AH with crowns. So essentially CE bought with money can be used to obtain the item in-game.

The Elevator Pass is a grey area. It can't be bought by CE, but it does the same job as CE for elevators. Regardless, the Elevator Pass can't really be seen as Content like the Expansion Missions or Accessories. It's like a heat booster or Krogmo Token Booster.

Since the Expansion Missions cannot be traded in-game, I can't buy it with CE in-game. Sure there's the Steam Trade, but that's outside of the game and seen more as a private arrangement outside the game. You cannot call that private arrangement as being able to buy the Expansion Missions with CE. If you did, then if somebody traded somebody else for the Expansion Missions with Drugs in real life....then you could say SK supports a Drug Market Currency.

But there are still people being excluded who don't want to use Steam, and shouldn't have to. That argument's been used before Wuvvums, and it doesn't work.

I really think the DLC should be in some way available to all players. It would make people happy again.

If this were some random game I picked up, and this happened, I would have quit already. The main reason I stay is because of the players. They consist of funny, smart, cool, cocky, modest, helpful, overall fun to be with people. All of these types of people are necessary to a great game, such as this (even including the cocky ones :). The social aspect was so well made too, being able to chat and/or voice chat, secret message, mail, and other ways of communication. I enjoy everyone's presence here. 

Second are the community managers, mods, and game developers, Eurydice, Atalanta, Hyperion, and so many more (no less important then the ones named) who are just so helpful and put up with a lot of BS, as well as taking part in some player discussions/activities. I don't think I know of any other game with such a close bond between GM's and players. I <3 both players and GM's alike (No homo).

I know some people are going to say I am some random loser suck-up who has no life, or just some fa**** with nothing better to do with his time, a troll, a loser trying to get attention, or something else. There will always be people like that, and you can't really blame them. 

No matter what happens, I'll play this game whenever I feel like it, and I won't quit just because of one insignificant reason. 

Occupy Wall Street worked so well in NYC...oh wait it didn't...unless failure = success

@Wuvvums

I feel you're still not understanding the concept here. I have Steam, a lot of other people against the real money only for the DLC has Steam too. Using the Steam Trade is outside the game, it's a private arrangement made outside the game.

For example, if I was to trade some CE and one million dollars to a SK programmer outside the game for him to delete somebody else's character in the game.....could we say "Character Assassination now available for Purchase with CE in SK"? Granted people Steam Trading for the DLC are only asking for CE, but since it's a private arrangement outside the game they could pretty much ask for anything they want.

If they had a way to make in-game trading of the DLC, I would not have as much of a problem with the DLC. If they allowed in-game purchase of the DLC with CE, I would have no problems with the DLC. To me it's not that I want the DLC, it's the fact they're putting up a "Pay Wall" and they're devaluing CE by saying "your previous money you gave us is not valid to buy this DLC". Unacceptable!

@Purgion

"...I won't quit just because of one insignificant reason. "

DLC purchase with real money only is not insignificant. It's probably the most significant thing to happen to date.

Excuses. The content CAN be obtained for free but obviously people don't want to have to exhaust their options for it. And yet they'll link around the micro-transactions model, which says something along the lines of that money should buy -convenience-, and in this case it does. It can buy you the convenience of not having to get steam and hunt down a player making an offer. It buys you the convenience of not having to -wait- until a new trading system is implemented (something they ARE considering, but not sure if possible yet. And you know what? They probably didn't want to push back the new content until this is ready). So once again you're buying the convenience of not having to wait to get it. But still, after looking at all this, I just can't see people saying there's absolutely no way this content can't end up in the hands of a free player.

And that's what it boils down to: people claiming that this cuts off free players, when there ARE options for free players. If the free players don't like it, well, they'll just have to wait. And isn't that what they were doing when playing this game for free? Waiting for their mist to recharge, waiting to save up the crowns, and waiting until they had all the right gear and the right amount of energy? But NOW it's apparently too much that they can't have this content off the bat, and they might just have to wait for it because they don't have the cash? I just don't get that they apparently had the time to build up a free character in this game, but can't seem to wait for the developers to place in a system for trade client-side, and can't use the other options in the mean time because Steam is Satan, third-party program, trading takes outside the game, etc. All these arguments are -ideological- arguments but when it boils down to the reality, there are ways for it to work and players don't want to have to go through that and complain anyways that this company is greedy and corrupt for doing what companies do.

CE =/= money spent by YOU. CE = money spent by SOMEONE.

consider it an act of sacrifice to access more game. If anything, I have to jeer OOO for not enacting P2P early on like other successful MMOs.

Realization has got to hit you F2Pers sometime that ya'll have been playing a very fun game for almost a year...and have personally contributed nothing to OOO's financial success. You've clogged their servers, whined and complained about every little issue, and..heh..protested patches.

This bears mentioning again. CE does mean your personal money. CE means SOMEONE'S money that you're now in control of. Smacks of welfare fraud or spoiled children to me.

Consuming CE is just as important as buying it. Anyone who understands supply and demand knows that.
CE is not traded for free, the market price is around 6500 CR for 100 CE. Trades made willingly.
Non monetary transactions are as legitimate as monetary ones. And I doubt that all CE sellers are trading out of goodness in their hearts.

Don't say F2P are getting stuff for free or dare to suggest that they are stealing.
It isn't a very good argument and for the most part, it is counter productive, and it is more or less being condescending.
So it is pretty silly argument to put up.

I think Three Rings has a brilliant model for F2P and find it sad that they would shy away from it.
But I guess that, while CE can pay for the servers it doesn't bring in enough money to support ambitious projects.
I guess they have to take their risks. They are game developers, not server operators, so they need to take on the bigger projects.
The community won't last without continuing content and they want more and faster, so they need to take on the bigger projects.
Their hands are tied, and perhaps they really wan't to do something with this little game.
And perhaps that realization can put my thoughts about this game at ease.

But one simple fact must be noted.
Three Rings, Nick, you kind of did pull a fast one on everybody changing the terms on how to buy the expansion.
Next time, you should really be open about what you are doing, and if you aren't sure how you want to do something, try to manage people expectations better.

@Wuvvums

If your argument of the DLC, which is only obtainable by real money, is obtainable through steam trade by a private arrangement makes it free-to-play is true....then why don't they advertise the DLC as Free-to-Play on the DLC's Steam Game Info?
Spiral Knights: Operation Crimson Hammer

Because I'm pretty sure if they did, it would be False Advertisement! It would also be particularly comical to see them try to say it's F2P when there's a price tag there too.

And stop trying to make this about Free-to-Play vs Pay-to-Play.....I spent money on SK before, I'm a P2P player. Why can't I use the CE which I bought with real money to buy the DLC? A lot of other P2P players are asking this too, so when you bring up F2P vs P2P it's a moot point and you're just distracting from the real problem.

@Tengu

"CE means SOMEONE'S money that you're now in control of. "

What if I bought that CE with real money....how is it somebody else's money that I'm in control of if I bought it? Why can't I use the CE which I bought with real money to buy the DLC?

"Realization has got to hit you F2Pers sometime that ya'll have been playing a very fun game for almost a year...and have personally contributed nothing to OOO's financial success. You've clogged their servers, whined and complained about every little issue, and..heh..protested patches."

I'm not a Free-to-Play Player, but you've obviously underestimated what the F2Pers contribute so much that I have to pull out this video again.
Penny Arcade explains Microtransactions

@Nodocchi

Somebody can be upset about the skyrocketing CE prices and also be upset with the DLC not being purchasable with CE. Why does it have to be one or the other? They're two separate issues. You're also making an "All or Nothing" argument here, like "If OOO can't do it totally right, then it's okay for them to do it totally wrong". It's a false dichotomy, there's more than two options here.

I like the expansion. It's everything the shadow lair update should have been. Sure, you must pay real money for it, but the game is not asking you to pay that much money. If you combine the amount of money for an energy pass and the expansion you'll find it's less than a normal subscription for most pay to play MMORPGs. What's best about the expansion: pay once, get continuous access, unlike the shadow lairs, where you have to keep burning energy every time you use it.

is it so bad its 4 dollars get off sk for 2 hours and mow you neighbors lawn ask for 5 buck congrats ohh wait its raising in price right to 6 dollars hopefully you have more than 1 neighbor