Spiral Knights - can we just calm down for a second?

can we just calm down for a second?

20 replies [Last post]

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 21:55

Xcleb

before i start i would like to say that, yes, i would like it expansion missions were available with CE, and yes, i feel the OOO make a mistake making this content only available to P2P.

However, people need to calm down before they start raging. Releasing buy-able content to players is how video game producers make money, and like it or not, this is how the real world works. Of course no mission player is going to be glad to shell out $3.99 to play a mission, but we are willing to accept this fact, and move past it even though we don't like it. Some of us however are insisting that this is an in-just way to treat the players, and that OOO is just trying to get into our wallets. in-just? maybe. OOO trying to get into our wallets? Why else would this game exist?

i started playing this game shortly after the official release, and loved it at first site. the music, the artwork (brought here by Three Panel Soul), how the game feels, the whole she-bang. i knew that, for a fact, i was not alone in that way of thinking. As i started becoming more and more serious about playing, i thought that getting to t3 would be impossible. but i grinded RJP constantly, was patient, and got my set of vog ( i was a pansy, and didn't bother with fsc until i had fire res). i was happy as could be. i had gotten myself to 5* F2P, and was proud of it. soon, i acquired my shield and shortly after my weapons. in the midst of this happening, OOO released stuff like accessories and SL, and i thought to myself "man, i can't wait to be a part of this!" so, after i had gotten all my gear 5* (not to mention a few 4* items) a bought some energy. a big step for the F2P. i got myself some more gear, and was very content with what i had accomplished. then i looked back at the game. nothing had changed. it was the same whimsical game i had fallen in love with, expansions and all.

now, we flash forward to now with the expansion missions. i was excited when they came out, but i was disappointed to see that they were payed. regardless, i buckled down, bought the missions, and do not regret it. to be honest the weapons are a TINY part of the expansion. the levels themselves are TONS of fun, and packed full of flavor. i believe the missions are well worth the investment.

then i went to the forums (le cry). i saw that so many players were quitting because of what? an add on? i'm sorry, i don't think that's an excuse to leave an amazing game. however, i respect players in their decision to quit and wont try to stop them. now with all of the people raging, i just want to say...

why?

why do you rage against OOO, for not taking away anything from you, but adding a new option? this update does not make the game less of a game, it does not hurt you in anyway. this update does not take away from the whimsical, original feel of the game that people love, it only adds to it. this is a business being run, and like it or not, this is how it is. many of my friends have quit this game because of this update in spite, and i think it's for naught.
for the record, i love this game. im not going to quit because of an update that i don't like, and i'm not going to quit for a while still.

so that's my rant. nothing special, just a player expressing his opinion. flame this thread. go ahead. fill it with all the hate that you have for three rings, and all the dislike for everything that it does. i will not think of anyone less for having an opinion, and think its good that people are expressing theirs. i'm not going to post on this thread again because i just wanted to state my opinion, and not deal with people arguing against it.

now, if you'll excuse me, im going to go enjoy the game :D

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 06:26

Tenkii

reposted idea from another thread...

To be fair, this is still just the first release of p2p-premium content. It doesn't necessarily mean there will no longer be new F2P content.

These are missions, and as far as I'm concerned (maybe since I'm used to it), missions aren't the main game to me. Arcade gates are. If the Arcade stops getting new content, then I'll join the complaints.

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 22:03

Aragoth

Very well said, and I can't

Very well said, and I can't agree more :)

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 22:07

Sniperjoe

Reply:

Seiran: Arcade updates are always welcome, though probably a little difficult to plan. I like the idea of new areas in the Clockworks...now if only they were more profitable.

Expansion missions don't bode well for me, in that (among my other arguments scattered here and there) I am not looking forward to paying $4 for four new floors that I can't find parties on because a good chunk of the game's playerbase can't get in.

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 22:09

Knightrails

My thoughts and reasons for

My thoughts and reasons for playing this game are the same. Down to joining from 3 Panel Soul. Nice. :D

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 22:18

Mk-Vl

TI just got the missions and

TI just got the missions and played through the T1 one to see how it was. 2.5k crowns, 5 floors i think, horrible heat(one level one 2* weapon only got to level 3). But i have to say its been my favourite mission so far. It has story, the area is beautiful, and there's ninja gremlins throwing gears. Plus the boss was well constructed :P On the other hand I got the new bomb and hammer. The bomb is interesting in that it has orbs. I thought it might be a big deal in LD so i went and checked out the damage in T2 LD. Paltry at best, but the higher levels are probably better. The hammer is interesting in that its a two hit weapon but you have to click three times. First for the hit, second propelles you way forward.If you don't click again you don't attack. Interesting, and the damage is decent but I haven't gone through extensive testing yet. The charge is a quicker version of a trokia but it also goes twice. All in all it is way worth the 4 bucks because you get all three and not just the one as i previously thought.

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 22:20

Wuvvums

Actually joined here from

Actually joined here from Whirled which was another one of OOO's games. There they rewarded artists who sold their stuff and the community was pretty good artwise. I like the company's attitude towards art, style, and game development.

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 22:54

Redfevrier

Well, I have to say, I completely agree. I have a view on this whole issue but I'm not going to share it, there really isn't need to. My opinion isn't going to change anyone's mind. If one has decided to leave then that's their deal. It's really too bad that so many respected players have in fact made that decision, and to see so many friends leave hurts quite a bit. But ce la vie I guess.
So I, for one, am going to stay away from the forums a little till all this dies down- those that are leaving have left, all the hate threads are gone, and everyone's adjusted to what OOO has decided (as a company in the real world) to do. I really do hope things go back to the way they were before, but now the general discussion section looks quite bleak.

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 23:04

Tantarian

Clarification

You fail to see the big picture. Many of us have been playing for a while. We only keep playing on the promise of new content. We login, chat, maybe sell some stuff, and log off. And when new content gets here, it's Shadow Keys, and you have to pay $2.50 for a run, which is utterly ridiculous. This content is played once by some and then forgotten, all the effort poured into them didn't make them a good game addition which you can play for fun with your friends many times, but "play once or twice content". Then we get missions, and they are all pretty much recycled content we have already played with a new interface. Then comes the first expansion mission, actually new content!, which you can play as many times as you want!, but it's $4.00. And there is no incentive to replay it (which was the idea behind boss tokens). And given the success of it, many more will come to follow.
For many years, in MMOs and many other games, updates have been free. Many of us still feel this should be the way. We don't want a game where we have to shell out cash for every little addition made to it.
The philosophy behind this was, that by making a good game better, you could get more players, and so, make more profit with everyone happy. The idea behind DLC is that there are no more customers to get, and we should try to get cash from the ones we currently have.
This is only a good strategy for the short term, in the long term it can only make the game worse.

If the game becomes full of DLC, what is it to become of it? Why would I spend my money on paying for a bunch of "parts" of the game. Maybe you're okay with paying $6 each time you want to play a new interesting mission, but for the price of 3 of these I could buy a completely different game which might be a lot more enjoyable and lasting.
Dungeon Defenders is suffering this fate, by saturation of DLC. If you ask anyone about the game these days they'll tell you to not play it because all the new fun stuff costs extra. And obviously everyone online is playing the new fun stuff.
Team Fortress on the other hand made such a good model that they stopped selling the game and made it F2P. And before that for years they updated the game without charging anyone anything past the original game cost. Currently everyone can have everything meaningful in the game with almost no pay (I think you have to pay any sum of money (even less than $1) to get the 600 inventory space and trading). They even let players contribute game ideas and make money out of it. The game updates itself with little effort and makes money in the process, it's genious!
League of Legends also has had tremendous success, and the only thing they sell is cosmetic items or "shortcuts".

The point is, SK is loosing the F2P part of it. You'll claim that "but you can still play for free some stuff", but that gap will only widen. It will come a time when, as a new player, to play the endgame content you will have to spend much money or effort. You will also be split from your friends who decided they would rather not pay. The point of F2P online games is that the community is big. This is going to be lost. As you can see, people are leaving already.
And sure, you can trade via Steam CE for the pack if someone is selling, but it's a complicated hassle, when the streamlined CE system exists, which is being ignored for some reason in favor of direct payment. There is people sitting on piles of CE, and they can't directly use it to buy new content despite it being the "premium currency". You spend money on a company to support them buying CE, and then they tell you your CE is no good, and you should pay directly for new stuff.

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 23:10

Mk-Vl

You say that you need to pay

You say that you need to pay even less than a buck to access a vast majority of tf2. as of right now all you need to do is pay 4$ for this one expansion. 99% of the game is still free

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 23:17

#10

Knightrails

@Tantarian

Frankly, it just means that you aren't the target audience of OOOs anymore. It doesn't matter how much you've played if you aren't happy or satisfied with the way they're going.

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 23:57

#11

Tantarian

@Moonar
That is hardly the point. And 99% of the game is not free, we already pay in a variety of manners, which are more accessible.

@Knightrails
Probably. That is why most people are quitting.

My post was just a clarification as for OP asked "why?"
I'm not quitting or anything, nor am I buying this "expansion" any time soon, for I have some experience with how these deals play out.
I will keep logging in, chatting, and logging off, with the occasional shenanigans, as I have done for the past months.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 01:49

#12

Encross

I just have to say that

I just have to say that Tantarian killed it.

The second you drop from 100% => 99%, you lose the F2P part of it completely. There's no grey region here -- it's black and white. F2P or P2P.

Now I know that's over-dramatized in the short run, but in the long run, if more and more of these come out, 99% becomes 97, which becomes 90...etcetc.

People are leaving because SK is not the game they first joined, and they have no interest following it.

I personally bought the pack, and I think it's well worth the $4 spent, but I still have one eyebrow raised. This model, if they follow it, is that of a P2P game. If that's what SK becomes, so be it, but don't expect everyone to stay.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 02:21

#13

Radarblue

Free to Play

Have you paid OOO anything to register an account?
Have you paid OOO anything to press attack?
Have you paid OOO anything to access the Energy Depot?
Have you paid OOO anything to post in this thread?

Free to Play. Q.E.D.

If your only rebuttal is the Expansion Mission, look at Railworks.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 02:45

#14

Knightrails

You know, I tend to find

You know, I tend to find remarks like "Most people are leaving" a little presumptuous, especially since there's not actual evidence of that. Hell, most of the regulars in my own guild bought the DLC before I even had the chance to ask them what they thought about it. XD

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 02:51

#15

Evilcats

Calming down is for fools and

Calming down is for fools and less mortals.

Most immortals do not care one bit about your trivial complaints.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 02:59

#16

Tantarian

Haha

@Knightrails
What I mean by "that's why most people are leaving" is that "that [not being the target audience of OOOs] is the reason why the quitters are quitting".
Not that this patch caused a mass exodus or something.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 03:13

#17

Knightrails

Ah, that makes more sense.

Ah, that makes more sense. While I don't deny, this could have gone better, but I'm sure OOOs has reasons to do so. Even if that reason is greedy investors, I'm sure the Dev team will at least attempt to give us value for money, which is all I can expect.

Of course, generally, when companies throw a whole bunch of cash grab promotions, they're either broke, or raising up capital for something big. I hope it's the latter.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 03:14

#18

Arilys

I guess I'll my two cents in

I guess I'll my two cents in here...

I don't understand the people that quit. The game is mostly free to play and we don't even have all of the Rank Missions yet. Sure, I thought the Expansion Missions would be purchasable with CE (which would make them a lot more accessible to a lot more people) but come on: the game doesn't run on air and the people working on it don't work for free.

Loads of players layers always complain about how laggy the game is and how hat lag is so much worse on PvP... well, new servers aren't exactly free either. And when OOO tries to put something in the game that will allow them to make more money and possibly get better servers for the game, guess what happens: the forums get flooded with whiners and ragequiters.

Again, I honestly thought that we would be able to buy the Expansion missions with CE and it's a shame that it's not the case. But before getting on the forums to complain about it and then "quit" the game (I used the "s because I bet a good amount of people actually return a few days later), think about what you get for 4 dollars: four completely new levels and one boss level; for each tier you are awarded with 2 new weapons and after you beat the boss enough times you can go to Vise on the mission's lobby to craft some masks that will give you bonuses for guns.

And to add to that, you give OOO money that they'll hopefully use to improve the game's servers. If that doesn't convince you, fine, just leave the game like so many other players. I'll stay here and enjoy the gates, missions that we currently have and missions that we'll get in the future. I won't mind paying now and then for new stuff, SK is the only online game that I like enough to spend any money on and I hope this lasts a long time.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 03:36

#19

Merethif

@Tantarian

@Tantarian
No offence, but if you don't find this game interesting enough (I mean playing game: PvE or PvP, not chatting) I really doubt Operation: Crimson Hammer would change your attitude for more then half a week. Personally I've found levels design less interesting then RJP or IMF. I'm still doing RJP and IMF once a week and I still find it funny. I don't think it will be the case with O:CH - I'll probably play it until I got 5* mask for PvE and 1*mask for Lockdown.

Two new monsters aren't breath-taking and don't contribute much to fun factor (like Polyps or Howlitzers did).
And I doubt that several NPC with pop-up flavour text will impress you either.
New items are cool and well designed, but if somebody doesn't enjoy playing Aurora Isles with Brandish, why would he start enjoying it with Rocket Hammer?

I agree that introduction Expansion Missions purchasable with real currency only (not CE) was a mistake, but if you lost your interest in playing SK, expansion missions (at least O:CH) won't change it.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 06:07

#20

Hmmnm

People lose interest when you

People lose interest when you start offering things that change the endgame mechanics (ie weapons) that are purchasable only with money.

Why? Because it sends out two messages:
1. No matter how much time, effort, and skill you sink into this game, you will always be at a disadvantage to those who pay.
2. This game is unbalanced.

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can we just calm down for a second?