Spiral Knights - Making the existence of expansion content fair

Making the existence of expansion content fair

11 replies [Last post]

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 00:25

Espil

I cannot be sure where this topic belongs, and perhaps one exists already, but there seems to be far too much to sort through regarding the expansion content.

I don't have a problem with anyone charging cash for content. I believe good work should be compensated, but I also deeply believe in fairness. The way I see it, making any mechanical benefit available only to paying players is a huge misstep. The content, as it exists now, is completely fine. But the only way that the game will ever be fair again, and the only way it will stay fair, is if anything offering any mechanical benefit is accessible to anyone.

In this case, I think one of these things need to happen:

1. Recipes for the new equipment should be available to every player, either from basil or the hall of heroes.
This will give everyone the opportunity to earn the items that currently give those who pay cash an unfair advantage.
Only those who pay cash for the missions will be allowed to enjoy them, and they will be granted many of the items without needing the recipes.
(I think this option would be best, but seems less credible since a very specific mask could be so reproduced)

2. The new missions need to be included in the clockworks somehow.
This will give everyone access to the content, and the rewards could potentially be earned with tokens as the other boss token equipment is.
Those who pay cash will have direct access to scenario, and will be granted most of the items without having to earn the tokens.
(I am less fond of this option, I think it will upset those who already paid for the content if they are not compensated)

I have heard the entertainment of the content is worth the price, so I will be purchasing it. Because the reckless inclusion of this content unbalanced this game to the degree it has, I will be purchasing it instead of my usual elevator pass. And if the game continues a trend of unfair favor towards those who spend cash, I'm sure I will be dissatisfied enough with the game to give it up and attempt persuading my friends and guildmates to do the same.

I also believe prohibiting anyone who hasn't paid for the content to join their friends is another huge misstep, but I can't say there is anything particularly unfair about that decision.

On a side note, I'm getting the impression there isn't anything sega can't completely tarnish.

-espil

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 00:31

Knightrails

Or they could just release

Or they could just release new content for clockworks.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 17:43

Espil

consideration

@Knightrails
I'm sorry, I don't quite understand your comment. Are you submitting that additional unique content for the clockworks would make the new exclusive advantages acceptable?

A couple more options occurred to me while considering the inherent mistakes of the new expansion content.

3. Completely prohibit all expansion content from use in competitive modes.
This will at least keep lockdown, or any future coliseum games, as fair as possible. The capability of paying cash for advantages otherwise unobtainable would be much less corrosive if restricted to cooperative modes. Sure, anyone could pay for enough energy to get the most possible advantages, but never before has anything been unavailable to those who do not spend cash. Anyone could eventually earn the same thing as the person who payed large amounts of money.

4. Use exclusive content to measure if it is worthy of being included for free.
This can be achieved by advertising a total purchase goal. If such a goal existed, and it was reached, then it would be clearly worthy of including for everyone's enjoyment. If it were advertised, not only would investors in the content have a reason to purchase the content, but would have reason to encourage it's purchase as well.

The more I think about the direction this game is heading, the more upset I become. Perhaps the exclusive equipment isn't as unbalanced as I imagine it is. If expansion content continues to be included by the precedent set by OCH, there will be a time when game ruining equipment is included. Then there will be far more outrage by those without access if it is not changed, or by those with access if it is. I never see this kind of thing as the developers providing extra content to those who pay. This expansion content is a clear example of limiting the content, of what used to be a completely free game, from those who still play for free. I have been a personal witness to several players' disappointment at their now limited options for entertainment within spiral knights because their friends are often occupied playing content that is inaccessible. I have never before payed for games that treat their players so unfairly, even if I continue to play spiral knights, I will never pay again.

For now, I can only hope, the next time expansion content is provided, that the developers don't completely embarrass themselves again.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 18:44

Derpules

Simplest solution still best

Make the content tradeable within the game, not just over Steam.

Then no one has anything to complain about, because it becomes just like CE or items purchased with CE.

This solution has been raised numerous times, and no one has put forward a convincing argument against it.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 20:15

Espil

first impressions

My immediate reaction suggests simply allowing it to be traded would be functional at least, but I cringe at the thought of a new kind of currency. Since it would be traded for CE it would likely be subject to market prices, meaning a generally uncertain value. Supposedly, one could assume a buyer would calculate the cost of CE per dollar and use that information to make a fair trade. That seems like an unfortunate process to be required though. I can already imagine someone trading their five star whatever for two or three expansion missions. It would be nice to see access available from the supply depot, but that probably consists of it's own dilemmas. I'm sure it's already been discussed elsewhere.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 20:20

Asdfhasdga

I think the recipes should be

I think the recipes should be bound upon purchase so it wouldn't be too easy for F2P players to obtain the item.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 20:28

Kive

1up

loved your post was a good read. I feel also that it was very profesional and organized. Im also mad about the free/paying player split only because of the 5* items tho OOO added those to attract more people to buy the expansion.The free items can be very overpowered if they are used right. option 2 would be my personal prefrence

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 20:42

Dirt

We really need one central

We really need one central feedback thread so we can get rid of this clutter. If you really wanted to make a suggestion, you could have posted in the Suggestions subforum or submitted your idea directly to OOO.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 22:06

Zenpai

Honestly, the hammer isn't

Honestly, the hammer isn't OP. The people good with a toothpick will still destroy in lockdown with a toothpick. The hammer just brings variety into the picture. The new bomb isn't all that great, either. I was able to dash into a bomber's shadow bomb, slap him with a hammer to kill him, then be on my merry way after only taking 5 pips of damage. The weapons are OP for PvE, but not for PvP. It leads me to think they were designed for PvP play to bring in variety.

Tue, 03/06/2012 - 22:52

Derpules

@Espil

"Since it would be traded for CE it would likely be subject to market prices, meaning a generally uncertain value. Supposedly, one could assume a buyer would calculate the cost of CE per dollar and use that information to make a fair trade."

It's not really that difficult, is it?

"That seems like an unfortunate process to be required though. I can already imagine someone trading their five star whatever for two or three expansion missions."

That would be an extraordinarily good deal, actually! UV-less 5*s don't go for a lot more than unbind.

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 02:55

#10

Asukalan

"Make the content tradeable

"Make the content tradeable within the game, not just over Steam."

Simplest and best remedy for expansion missions.

No need to including it to clockworks, no need for extra recipes, tokens, trading weapons.

Just make them tradeable in game. They will still remain exclusive since you either to pay for them or work for them to buy with CE.

Or even better dont make them tradeable, just make them buyable with CE like shadow key from a vendor. It will appear as item similar to elevator pass but wont expire. Once used will allow access to expansion missions. They will be bought from vendor and will bound to you on purchase. This way all profit (even if its CE sold to vendor) will go to OOO (by profit i mean dissapearance of CE from game/players incrasing demand for CE and its price therfore incrasing propability that someone will buy CE with $$$)

Wed, 03/07/2012 - 04:08

#11

Ufana

OOO does not "want" to trade

OOO does not "want" to trade it for ce, because ce equals money that we already gave them in the past. While we don't know whether the "awesome idea" that "customers shouldn't get service for money they spent up front, they should pay again" came from OOO or from somewhere else (sega / valve / whatever), we can be almost sure that it's someone who's able to put his foot down pretty hard in spite of the former "fair-play businesses model".

So... I'd guess: Too many sales, not enough "rage", whoever wanted to make the expansion unlockable with ce in the first place probably doesn't have enough "community pressure" as an argument to back him up against "but we can make them pay AGAIN and this time everyone!". Which means I'd guess: something to make it less unfair (and remove pressure from players that won't buy) won't happen.

Always hope to be shown I'm wrong with guesses like that though :P

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Making the existence of expansion content fair