I was thinking of getting a bomb for my swordloving self. I got 2 lines which i think are pretty good. The gravitons and the shivermist buster. I like the graviton because, you know, it pulls enemies inward, but i like the shivermist because it has a good range and it freezes enemines. I also like to play lockdown from time to time. So which should I choose?
Which Bomb?
Sat, 03/03/2012 - 13:11
Sat, 03/03/2012 - 14:23
#2
What about doing normal runs?
What about doing normal runs?
Sat, 03/03/2012 - 14:30
#3
Electron is preferred over
Electron is preferred over graviton, the shock infliction keeps the mobs clumped.
Shiv is not preferred outside of vana fights, unless you really need some breathing room.
Take a voltaich tempest or ash of agni. Those are the haze bombs that deal shock and fire, respectively. Much more useful than shiver.
Sun, 03/04/2012 - 14:07
#4
Shiv is actually good in a
Shiv is actually good in a group, but more so for crowd control than damage. Every mob in the game is easier to wipe out when stuck in one place. Of course, it's useless on its own.
And does the Electron Vortex inflict Shock more often at higher star levels? My 3* Electron doesn't seem to shock very much.
Sun, 03/04/2012 - 14:27
#5
I dislike shiv's, because
I dislike shiv's, because they make unnecesasary obstacle course where I could've clumped them for more hits per swing. And frozen enemies are not subjected to knockback, which many players use to prevent being hit.
It deals shock at a decent rate, but I usually chain them for my group anyways.
Mon, 03/05/2012 - 03:48
#6
"I dislike shiv's, because
"I dislike shiv's, because they make unnecesasary obstacle course where I could've clumped them for more hits per swing. And frozen enemies are not subjected to knockback, which many players use to prevent being hit."
Players can still attack frozen enemies without being hit, simply by flanking them since they can't turn while frozen. The anti-knockback is also great with calibur-line wielders, since it makes them eat all 3 hits of the charge attack, or with some DA/GF/Nitro wielders who don't like sending enemies flying all over the place.
Mon, 03/05/2012 - 19:30
#7
I do keep a Shivermist on me
I do keep a Shivermist on me at all times, that I'll say, but this is more because of me soloing more often.
The way it goes, here's my usual loadout.
1) Sword
2) Electron Vortex
3) Sword of different damage type
4) Shivermist
The Shivermist is really just for keeping certain enemies (Devilites/Gremlins) in place, and not attempting to throw various heavy objects at me, and this is not so much of an issue in group play.
Mon, 03/05/2012 - 20:05
#8
Shivermist freeze, while
Shivermist freeze, while technically keeps the monster frozen while in its radius, does not re-apply freeze instantly upon hits. It pulses, so to speak. So the monsters can still turn after you hit them.
Flanking does not work when you have enemies who are turned towards each other, and thus reduces the places from where you can attack. \
For the most damage, heavy sword users have to clump enemies together in order to outdps the brandishes/other faster swords.
Nitros who have to rely on shiv is not a good nitro.
Not everyone uses the calibur line, and even less use the charge on a constant basis. And in the occasions where a charge would be good, its for the knockback. If you are somehow using the charge for damage, it would mean you use it constantly, even when enemies are not frozen. Thus, bad teamplay anyways.
Tue, 03/06/2012 - 01:39
#9
I like how you jump to the
I like how you jump to the conclusion that using calibur charges often immediately equals bad teamplay. Clearly, every single person who uses the calibur line loves sending attacking enemies flying into teammates, because CLEARLY nobody can grasp that instead of hitting enemies towards teammates, they can instead hit enemies away from teammates, or target enemies who aren't being targeted by teammates and thus not interrupt teammates' attacks, using the exact same charge attack.
Since you like jumping to conclusions, then I'll do the same too. People who can't utilise the advantage of Shivermist are bad teamplayers. Lrn2shiver.
Tue, 03/06/2012 - 18:10
#10
This is a suggested "goal"
This is a suggested "goal" loadout of mine:
2 weapon slots:
Graviton Vortex/Electron Vortex(PvE)/Voltaic Tempest(PvP)
Nitronome(either)/Radiant Sun Shards(either)
3 weapon slots:
Graviton Vortex/Electron Vortex(PvE)/Voltaic Tempest(PvP)
Nitronome(either)/Radiant Sun Shards(either)
Nitronome(either)/Radiant Sun Shards(either)
4 weapon slots:
Graviton Vortex/Electron Vortex(PvE)/Dark Retribution(PvE)/Voltaic Tempest(PvP)
Nitronome(either)/Radiant Sun Shards(either)
Nitronome(either)/Radiant Sun Shards(either)
Ash of Agni(PvE)/Shivermist Buster(PvE)/Stagger Storm(IMO either)
I strongly suggest the use of Radiant Sun Shards.
Tue, 03/06/2012 - 18:48
#11
@Griseolar
We could ignore that last part of my post where I say not every calibur user charges. And how most of it is for the knockback.
You said calibur charges are good for dps, I disagreed. And then I pointed out that if one does intend for the charge to dps, they would spam it because they feel that using the charge outdps normal attacks.
Hitting enemies away from teammates equals less overall damage done by a team. One of the problems polaris shares when it is spammed constantly. I only mention polaris because you may have experienced this same scenario.
Now please, reply to only part of my post. Why read the entire thing?
Wed, 03/07/2012 - 02:07
#12
What a hypocrite, you accuse
What a hypocrite, you accuse me of not reading your entire post, and there you are doing the exact same thing to my post.
I did not say calibur charges are good for dps. I said calibur charges are good for when an enemy has its movement locked, so it eats all 3 hits from the charge which amounts to great damage for that one instance. Everyone knows that mobile enemies will get hit only once, rarely twice, by a calibur charge if their movement isn't being locked down, so why would I want to go around wasting time charging when enemies are only going to get hit once by a hit that only does slightly more damage than a normal swing? Furthermore, while it is my fault for not being specific, I meant hitting enemies who are targetting/about to backstab a teammate while they are focused on another target away. They may or may not be able to shield cancel in time, but a helping hand to get the backstabbing enemy away from them is always welcome. You don't like doing that? Bad teamplay, clearly.
And since you want me to show that I've read your entire post, fine. Here it is:
"Shivermist freeze, while technically keeps the monster frozen while in its radius, does not re-apply freeze instantly upon hits. It pulses, so to speak. So the monsters can still turn after you hit them."
While I do not know whether the pulsing of the freezing is true or not, freeze can re-apply instantly, depending on how lucky you are. This is most easily noticed if the enemy is suffering from shock at the same time. I'm surprised you never noticed this despite doing so many Vana runs with a Shiver in your team.
"Flanking does not work when you have enemies who are turned towards each other, and thus reduces the places from where you can attack."
Did I say you have to flank AT ALL COSTS? No, I did not. If you see two enemies turned towards each other, kindly put two and two together and figure out that you can still approach them from a blindside where they still won't trade hits with you, and allows you time to shield cancel your attack if the freezing did not re-apply instantly.
"For the most damage, heavy sword users have to clump enemies together in order to outdps the brandishes/other faster swords."
This is true, can't argue with that.
"Nitros who have to rely on shiv is not a good nitro."
Once again, I did not say Nitros have to rely on Shivers to be effective. I'm curious though, it's generally agreed that randomly placing Nitros is detrimental to the team due to enemies flying all over the place. While a good Nitro user can position himself properly to avoid this, anything to help prevent randomly flying enemies would, logically, be appreciated too, so why are you disagreeing with this?
Wed, 03/07/2012 - 08:58
#13
A frozen enemy does eat most
A frozen enemy does eat most of the calibur charge. But if you are shiving for the sole purpose of charging, as you've implied, it is still suboptimal gameplay, where the shiver could have been attacking, and the calibur swinging to deal more dps.
Freeze can reapply, depending on your luck. Not the most reliable, and never 100%. Thus, enemies can turn. You can notice this with trojans. Sometimes they turn on the shiv, or the blitz.
I do know it refreezes, isn't that the point of shivving vana? And I usually try not to shock vana, if we happen to be blitzing. It's just easier for the blitz if they dont have to keep moving even after they finished charging, because the shock unfroze him.
I said reduce the places from where one can attack. Not referring to a clump of zombies all facing out. Most noticeably, D26 in fsc, the 4 button room on the left path. Most people spawn all the zombies because most people can handle it. But if a shiv starts being dropped in front of the barrier? Better hope you already have a guy inside, or it'll take a long time.
Another example, last room of that same floor. The waves of respawning zombies and the spike pads in the middle. Shiv that, and your team has to go on spike to fight them. With the increasing clutter of vials and mats on the floor, there will be zombies that spawn further and further into the spikes. And since you have to kill them there, more clutter.
Rely. I said rely. As in, to be able to do something. People rely on their fire resist to take less fire damage. People rely on piercing defence to take less jelly damage.
If you use a nitro, you have to accept that there is going to be a BSOD and huge knockback. Again, same problem with the calibur charge. You want that other weapon to cancel out a mechanic that you feel is detrimental. A good idea, but relying on a crutch. From your posts, it seems that you advocate shiving for the usage of calibur charge spamming and to give nitro users the freedom to drop BSOD's.
Wed, 03/07/2012 - 09:28
#14
You've given valid points for
You've given valid points for your argument, and I've given mine. It's pointless for us to continue arguing on because in the end, we both have our own playstyles that is more suited for ourselves and not others - you focus on dealing optimal damage in a party, I focus on just being support and throwing in damage as and when I can. I have never received complaints from teammates that my calibur charges and/or Shivermist usage is causing them to die or walk into spikes or just downright annoying them, which is why I took offense to your accusation that my playstyle was 'bad teamplay'.
For Lockdown, both bombs are pretty terrible. Too many skolvers for shiver to be effective.