It brought the bomb back in line with the other ones. Dps bombs have never been good since 5 star RSS was removed.

So because we don't have a good DPS bomb pre-DR, we shouldn't have one? ...Whut.

There's swords that do a ton more damage than other ones, so why can't bombs have the same?

More like...

Maybe I should reformat it to make it nicer to read?

@ Mk-vi

Yeah, that post was dripping with sarcasm :P I really don't like how much of an edge swords have over the other two weapon types, pun intended.

You guys have tons of other options if you don't like something. Learn to use them. :P

As far as I care bombs could very well be overpowered at this point, I can understand the hammer, being pure elemental as it is, but honestly, there are better bombs and more interesting ways to watch everything drop dead around you, after all, that's all bombs really LET you do in the first place. :P

Agreed @ Rommil.

@ Etunde

I -DO- carry multiple weapon types. Pure loadouts generally aren't super viable - Unless you go with 4 swords, in which case it mostly is except for sometimes when you may need to snipe a gun puppy (which is mostly moot due to a lot of swords having very long-range high powered charge attacks anyways...)

However, this isn't about pure weapon loadouts or not - it's about the damage output and useability of guns and bombs vs swords. There are very few situations in which a gun or bomb will even match a sword let alone outperform it, even less so for guns, and the main situations where bombs are super awesome is in arenas, and even then it mostly applies to status bombs, such as Venom Veiler, Ash of Agni, and Voltaic Tempest - which are STATUS BOMBS and largely unaffected by damage boosts!

Point being, loadouts that specialize in bombs or guns generally suffer pretty badly from lack of damage output compared to swords.

DR was, for once, a weapon that actually could do just about as well as swords in various situations, but because it was overpowered at one specific boss, it got the nerf hammer, and HARD. It's not even really worth using over Nitro on jellies, or DBB on gremlins anymore, which is sad because it's a shadow bomb.

Which reasonable person could disagree?

@ Etendue

Sorry about the typo in your name, I was typing that when it was hella late for me.

Anyways, guns and bombs may have utility going for them, but only marginally so more than swords, at the expense of a huge dip in damage. However, I don't agree with your statement that swords should do more because they carry the most risk... I mean if you think about it, do they really? Guns can kite, but they really lack the defensive qualities of a sword - pushing enemies back, interrupting them, etc. A lot of enemies in the game, especially in T3, have good ranged attacks or quick distance closing abilities. This makes the range aspect of a gun almost nonexistant, and causes a gunner to be just about as vulnerable as a sword user, at the expense of less than half of the DPS of a sword. That just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

As for bombs, bombs have no primary attack. Only charge attack. Since a bomb is radial in most cases, it generally requires the bomber to expose himself/herself to danger in order to achieve optimal bomb placement, since you're 100% undefended while charging a bomb. This is especially a problem with extremely fast enemies, such as devilites and greavers.

You mention the Polaris as being a good gun - which it is. It's a great gun for being a sidearm for swordies or bombers... but in general, it's actually not that great for a gunner specialized loadout, there are better options for an elemental gun when it comes to raw DPS. Blitz Needle does really good damage, at the expense of the gunner being even more vulnerable than a swordie, even.

Bottom line is, DR needs to be buffed. Not as strong as it was, but definitely stronger than it is. While OOO is at it, other DPS bombs need a buff, too. And guns need an all-around buff.

@entendue

Hold on, SWORDIES are the most vulnerable? I seriously can't believe I just heard that. Granted, I think gunners have the best defensive abilities, short of being cornered in an arena (maybe) because of no knockback, but bombers (seeing as nitro is extremely frowned upon in any party situation) are the most vulnerable of all weapon types. Theres not one point where a bomber can continue to do their job (by dropping bombs) while shielding, however a swordie and a gunner can both shield in between attacks without a major dps loss, due to the ability to attack without charging.

Lets talk sword utility: NOT including the ability to attack immediately
We all know DA has massive knockback and does a fair bit of damage (upwards of 800 damage on charge swing in s6 with db max) and the knockback affects many monsters and still does a lot of damage.

Brandish charges do a lot of damage and inflict status 5 squares in front of them. The explosions do almost as much damage as a status bomb exploding, and brandishes have the same, if not shorter, of a charge time compared to status bombs.

Swordies always had a problem with gun puppies (kinda) and many carried an elemental sidearm to deal with them if they were out of reach. No more! Now they are given a pure elemental weapon that allows you to leap 4-5 squares towards a target, doing damage and being able to immediately shield.

Lets now speak about gun utility:
First off, the only good damage buff that guns can get isi through trinkets, the only armor that gives gun damage is low and carries massive status penalties.

Second, many mobs (gremlins, wolvers, devilites, mechaknights) have the ability to dodge or block gunfire, and because of this only certain guns can be effective against them.

Pulsar series is the only gun that knockbacks the enemy, but its a very slow bullet. The dps is also lower (much lower in groups) because alchemer charges yield much higher numbers, as well as do not knockback enemies (lumbers get knocked back really far by pulsar spam). This makes it really only viable for turrets, and maybe a few select mobs.

Status alchemers do quite a bit less damage than the prismatic (only tested lower versions, seemed to be about 60% of the damage). For this reason, they are basically the haze bombs of gunners. Seeing as many mobs can be knocked back by swords, it is very hard to spread this status effectively between many mobs, almost impossible in a non-coordinated group, making them essentially useless, especially with a status bomber.

Piercing guns are few and far in between, with the only ones being blitz needle and calahan. Both prevent movement for a peried of time, and are limited in damage in most situations. The only real advantage to calahan is the fact that iti interrupts soft-bodied mobs (wolvers and gremlins) and it fires fairly fast. Blitz needle is primarily a charge weapon, which to do any real damage requires you to be close to the target, provided that it isn't dodging you.

Lets now go to bombers:
The only way to do anything with a bomb is to charge it. This makes bombers very vulnerable to many attacks, especially from knockbacks of swordies and guns.

The only way you can currently boost your damage to max is either using mad bomber and trinkets, or having 1 bomb with med damage of each type, and two db trinkets.

Now that volcanic is ctr med, it is basically the only real option for bombers who do not wish to roll UV's over and over and over (mad bomber negitive status, mercurial db sucks, you'd need ctr VH on each bomb)

Bombers only have 1 damage reduction other than normal. Elemental. This makes t3 fiends a very formidable foe, seeing as many of them deal pure shadow damage and take quite a bit of life if you are hit once, and being as bombs almost require ctr max, you cannot sub a piece in without rolling UV's

Status bombs are fairly powerful, but they really can't be used for damage. As I said earlier, a brandish does much more damage than a status bombs's explosion, and can still carry a status and inflict many enemies. This is also a STRONG status, while haze bombs are only a minor status.

Damage bombs do almost less than guns in certain situations, and normally require a 2 second charge time and a 2 second drop time. Bombers can basically only attack every 4 seconds (I realize stacking bombs makes it appear faster, but it takes 4 seconds for one attack). Not only this, but the damage is so low single target (not including RSS) that bombers might as well sit back and do nothing unless theres more than 4 enemies. This also assumes a perfect world where swordies don't knock mobs out of bomb range. Not only that, but the only "party-friendly" bombs leave damage bombers extremely vulnerable due to no knockback and no interrupts/knockdowns (other than gremlins and wolvers, which are easily killed by anyone).

Don't even say swordies have it hard, or are the most risky. I can't tell you how much easier it is to kill fiends with a flourish than it is with RSS or DBB. DA has more knockback than nitro, and with ctr and db max has on eof the best dps for multitarget in the game. gun puppies are easily killed with 2-4 strikes of any weapon, DA preventing them from shooting once. and even then, the supply depot doesnt even start you out for anything other than swordie gear (yes i realize its vanilla gear only) or class-neutral gear. Right now, this game is balanced where if you aren't a swordie, you basically wont be able to do any real damage and will be the guy who is only good in one situation. Bombers are basically useless until full 5* gear, making it almost impossible to start off as a bomber effectively. This is just my rant. Do with it what you will.