Yes we do because there is a PROBLEM, with the way things are currently going for newbies.

Yes we do because there is a PROBLEM, with the way things are currently going for newbies.

[citation needed]

more players=more profit, don't you get that?

It's not being removed only moved up. People will still have to pay for the game. more players=more profit, don't you get that?

This is my last post on this subject because I am so tired of wasting my time arguing about this when it doesn't matter. The devs know I'm right, that's why the game is the way it is, so I don't need to argue. I have just been trying to maybe get you to understand why the devs did it that way.

So here goes one last time.

More players only equals more profit if they pay. More players that don't pay actually equals less profit - there is a cost associated with each player, and if that player pays money they are balancing their cost. If that player does not pay money then they are costing 3O some amount of money. It's so small that 20% of the playerbase can easily subsidize the free 80%, but it exists.

So you need players to pay money for the game in order to make a profit. With me so far?

Now let's see how we get people to pay for the game.

Well, mainly we get them to pay by charging for energy above and beyond a single day's allotment. For this to work, a single day's allotment has to be large enough that you could conceivably do something with it, but small enough that you will frequently want to play a little more. 100 energy is pretty close to the sweet spot for this. If you buy 200 CE you can actually get by with your daily allotment + 20 CE a day to do, say, one big t1 through t2 run. But if you don't have any CE, your 100 ME will only take you so far.

So 100 ME is a nice sweet spot where people get to play the game for a while, and right when they decide they like it -- hey, you can't play anymore until you wait a few hours (to run one whole level) or a day or so. Or... you could just give us a little money...

Some people will drop the game in response to this. Other people will not pay and will just play their ME every day, hoping to eventually amass enough wealth to become self-sustainable (or just playing to enjoy their free allotment). Both of these responses are fine choices. But the idea is to maximize the number of people who say "Hmm, well, it's only 75 cents to keep playing for a little while today. I'll play more and see if I like it." and pay a little bit of money (or they look at how much better of a deal $10 worth of energy is, or $50 if they are really enjoying it, or whatever.)

Okay, so that's what happens with the current system.

What would happen if you got 200 or 300 ME per day?

Well, now you can play for two or three hours on your daily allotment. Now you can do two or three T2 runs on it. The game's kind of repetitive; you'll probably get bored after a couple runs and stop playing. Maybe you don't ever play again because, well, that was fun, but kind of repetitive. Maybe you play again tomorrow, and you have another 200 ME to burn through. Very rarely, you'll be so addicted that you blast through your 200 ME, and then want to buy CE. But if you have 200 ME, why would you ever buy the expensive options? It's super easy to get enough energy to play all you want. You probably just top up from time to time if you do pay.

In this scenario where is the demand for CE? Everyone just plays through their ME which covers a lot more players' habits at 200 than it does at 100. It's rare for a newbie to get to the point where he can't continue without paying money. That means less money for 3O.

The fact that it is "hard" to play as much as you want when you start out is not an accident.

last post I'm writing on this. I have spent way too much time today on this.

You sound like a greedy sleazy corp executive, and I don't like you.

Hey anisoptera.
One thing, you forgot to mention is crafting costs.
As it stands t2 people will allways generate demand for energy. (because SOMEONE has to purchase these 100-200ce per craft)

Now to the main concern I have.
Why'd you want a newbie to reach a point where they can't play more without paying, excessively fast. Isnt a trial supposed to cover the basics.

Yes, there's a massive problem with the basics being t1, and the most crown generating phase being t2. Passing the basics would automatically enable you to sit at the source of most crowns.

That's faulty game design in my opinion. There should be a new t2 with 1* req, new t3 3*, t4 4*.

People would easily access t2lite without spending money.
(Even now that's hardly a problem to the avid gamer/kid with 5$)

But with the new "t2 lite", the crown payout could be designed around obtaining 3* recipes, not 4*. So quite a bit lower.
Now due to t3/4 having crown payout like the current t2, the CE price would remain relatively unimpacted. even going down a bit due to the masses of new-intermediate players sitting in t2lite (temporary, CE:Crown is still trending upwards heavily as we all know)

Playing in a glorified t1 is a lot nicer than being bunched with the completely new guys(=>happier players), even if it'll take moderately longer to get to the main dish (=>more reason to spend money)
Would also make the "breaker" series of armor more poppular, and some 1*/3* weaponry.
And would create the need for at least a new boss :3
And the second half of new t3 could be a bit more brutal than current t2 second half.
(of course current t3 level difficulty needs to get looked into also. shock/freeze/crowded fiend area is just way above plains/castle/poison area)

edit: and perhaps a reusable 50 mist/day (or per 2 days) tank >->
edit: thinking about it, a weekly 200 bonus energy bar might be reasonable. Sure, it's 29 more energy a day, but allowing someone to play for 300 energy one day and only 100 the next just sounds effective to get people hooked.
edit: or jut make it 100 extra weekly and keep the steam tanks for reaching certain floors like we have already.

can we just.. stop with these threads. please? there are enough.

Instead of a second mist tank that refills like the normal one, why not a second mist tank that you can pay crowns to be refilled once a day. That might seem a little more fair.

Thoughts?

guys the game hasn't even been out for a full month yet. can we stop ringing the death knell of spiral knights? and maybe wait until, you know, it actually happens?

all I see frustrated players complaining. there are plenty of paying and non-paying players that are getting mileage out of this, handling CE prices (real or market), and having fun. the forum is devolving into this cesspool of ME/CE complaints. I'm not saying its a perfect system, and I do agree that it might need some tweaks to help new players that are starting out. everyone is speculating too much about the potential market price of CE. and guess what? you guys are probably contributing to a panic -- hey everyone get CE on the market now while you can still afford it with one ME run!! Meanwhile these buyers are helping drive the prices up and up. Ironic, no? I have a feeling the forum activity really isn't helping us any. self-fulfilling prophecy.

could be a crownsink

crown sink.

Costumes. Um, cool vanity items that do different but not overbalanced things. Furniture. A one-day-a-month gate that takes both crowns AND minerals to fill out, but provides cool loot (such as a vendor for cool vanity items....). Personal houses that can be decorated. New player portraits. The ability to choose the color of your name/add cool effects to your name in dungeons. Zombie invasions where you throw money at the yelling 'don't eat me'.

You know, that kind of thing. Um, maybe not the last one.

Jelly weapons! When I want to look pink and blobby, I want to go all the bloody way, mate. All the bloody way.

if there's no reason to sell CE? It's an economic system where the endgame is acquiring as much CE as you conceivably can, then hoarding it because it's the only thing worth doing with crowns.

I'm not saying it's a bad system, I'm saying there needs to be a purpose for crowns. Actually, I'm not sure which post you're even replying to. If it's mine, I am and have been offering suggestions that would basically make crown inflation less of a major force on the market.

Also, I really hate it when people have this opinion of 'you have a game, you must be grateful for it and never raise any objections unless you have paid money.' Yes. It's true that so far, I've put in many hours and have not had to pay for them. I'm certainly grateful for that.

That being said, I don't think it's ingratitude to make suggestions regarding market trends, regardless of whether I've purchased CE. Possibly *especially* since I haven't purchased CE; if I had, I wouldn't bother watching the CE market at all (why would I? I'd have enough CE for 2-3 weeks, at least).

If you're responding to an earlier post asking for everyone to be granted free CE or for a rent ceiling, then yeah, maybe you have a minor point about some degree of ingratitude.

I think the OP is just making a suggestion for the sake of shutting people up, really.

I get that Three Rings needs to make a profit. Part of it, though, is also that the market relies on free players/people who simply don't pay enough money to get a steady supply of CE. If there's no demand for CE (because everyone paid for enough to comfortably use), there's no reason to have a market.

Given this, it's unsurprising that the people that would complain about market prices are, well, the free players. They benefit the most from the market.

I definitely don't agree that everyone should be getting more free energy, though. The economy IS flawed, but adding more CE/ME isn't a fix at all, it just makes people feel better and profit more and, ironically, probably drive up CE costs more. It SOUNDS peachy, but it's akin to printing money.

in exchange, Apple gets to know where all of its users are.

No free lunch and all that...:P