This is where i get a bit torn on this whole subject. All about money, and really, it should be. Their job is making and up keeping this game. I do my job for one reason and one reason only, my job -- to me -- is all about making my money. So i won't slight OOO for trying to make money, or for it being "all about money." I will, and do, however, get annoyed at their methods of going about this.

In short, it seems that they do it sub optimally. It seems that they should be able to come up with a better construct for making their profits, while allowing a free-to-play crowd also to flourish. They are taking steps to cut out "in-game-hustle" as a means to funding play. I don't like this as a method for getting more money (i.e. forcing people who could otherwise play for free open up their wallets). -- a perfect example was the supply depot gear. Previously, some lower-end players could eek out a living by crafting up gear and selling it for a very slight profit (or recipe runs). Both of these avenues have been shut down via supply depot. Also, selling mats is hampered by it too.

I envision a business model that allows for profiteering in game by players, "forcing" early adopters to pay for that right, and also allowing free-to-play players the freedom to not spend money, and, AND, enjoy the game as deeply as pay to play players.

*******Here is my suggestion.********
New content monthly. This would include:
10-15 new missions.
Daily prestige missions.
1 New boss and accompanying levels. (even if shadow re-skins of various areas. Or 1-off bosses like the trojan from mission systems)
Any new gear. Or any new accessories.
Elevator pass for this time period.

The "NEW CONTENT" would be pay to play for the first 60 days. If you buy during the first month of release its 4.99. If you buy during the second month its 2.99. After 60 days it becomes available to all for no cost (free to play players are not locked out of new content). This gives p2p the right to enjoy new content first. F2p still get to do it, but they pay the 60 day waiting cost for being free. When you pay for content, at any time, you get elevator pass for the duration of that promo--however many days before it becomes free to play. This also gives p2p the right to have new weapons for 2 months before F2p. The new weapons, gear, MATS could be unbindable until the time frame for that content going f2p was reached, at which point you can unbind, sell and trade said gear and mats.

The only aspect of the game this would disallow f2p players would be the daily prestige missions. That would be the only sole benefit (aside from early access)
think about it, how many people pay 9.99 just to get access to the test servers?

BONUS****
Since shadow keys, shadow lairs, seem to be a failed experiment, and since this would likely render them further useless, and since people have money invested in shadow keys in their inventory, shadow keys could allow f2p a one time access for P2P content before it becomes free. Thus, f2p players could technically still access the new content during that 60 day incubation period.

They could also then have a 50 dollar yearly subscription that would allow access to all new content at 10 dollars cheaper than paying 5 bucks monthly for it.

Just a thot. Just a suggestion. And if they were diligent about adding new content, it'd be pretty solid. It would force players who have 100k+ ce to spend money on the game to enjoy the new content quickly. Otherwise you have the upper 10-30% of the game don't really any incentive to ever spend real life money on the game. Which is what OOO needs them to do.

Trust me, Rich players can AND DO, attempt to manipulate the market. And no, they are not "evil bankers" they are just people trying to flip a profit, its fine, fair, and imo a little jerky. And when you see bids of 700-900, thats precisely what is going on. It doesn't happen every moment of every day, and its not primarily responsible for the rising CE costs. But in an environment where CE prices are going up anyways, it can be utilized to temporarily inflate prices further. (thus temporary increase the price a which you can sell your stockpiled CE). Again, it can and does happen. [and again, this doesn't work during a giant CE promotion, it works when the economy is stagnant, naturally rising, and people fearful of the increasingly rising cost of ce.]

@ mawashimono (my dragon princess, whom i love like a sister)
I guess by low-end i meant more of intermediate players. There was a merchant class of players who were neither scraping the bottom of the barrel nor excessively rich. A group of savvy grinders who would level up 5* gear (making crowns and mats along the way, often on elevator passes), unbind 5* gear, and sell off for a small profit (specifically clean gear). That has been removed. So too has the recipe runs which was a good thing for very new players to do. But yes, mawa, crafting 2-3* gear is still as viable as it ever was. And if you get lucky enough to get a good UV on 5* gear, that too can still be sold for profit.

Also, i meant shadow lairs being a failed experiment just in the implementation of the model. That is, buying shadow keys to run shadow lairs. Yes, people do them, yes people have shadow keys, but they don't seem to be adding new shadow lair content, and i think it was a poor way to do them period. It feels like something they did and it did not work out real great. I don't think i have ever talked to anyone who was like "oh man, these shadow keys and shadow lairs are sooo cool, i love the way they implemented this idea!!!!" Everyone was like, "shadow key to unlock shadow lair......BOGUS" especially since they were supposedly in lockboxes and then being put on auction house by OOO.

no one is contending that anyone is "controlling" the market. But short term manipulations for personal gain do take place. This is why i emphasized so heavily that it can only be done given the right "economic conditions."

I.e. in a CE situation where it is steadily increasing anyways. No one (no matter how much they threw at it) could drive the market up during the Dragon wings promotion. But when the promo's run out, and CE is rising anyways, the market is ripe for these manipulations.

A lot of what it boils down to is this: Temporary solutions to a permanent problem. Permanent problem being a game design that if left unattended CE prices steadily increase to ??? as X approaches infinity (lol). Temporary solution= insert ce promo package here.

HOWEVER. I guess this is all a matter of perspective, really. It is only our perception as players that the steadily increasing CE prices is a problem in need of a solution. If you are the manufacturer of the game (OOO) perhaps there is nothing wrong with this picture. Perhaps this is perfectly fine, and just the way you want the game to work.

This is why I
A) pointed out how the CE market mechanics are flawed in such a way as to always drive prices up, in the vacuum of a CE promo.
B) Gave a few ways to fix this CE market mechanic.
C) Gave a profit making solution in post #11. Presenting a business model that would allow for OOO to make plenty of money, encourage P2P'ers to keep paying, convert F2P'ers to join the paying ranks, and not lockout F2P'ers if they choose to remain free.

this whole thing got sidetracked on wether or not the CE market can be manipulated by rich players. XD

i know plenty of RICH players who have done this and admitted it happily in private chats. Like i said before, its not evil, just another way to make money. I rich player wishing to get more crowns for selling CE is no more nefarious than a player of lesser funds wanting to get a cheaper price on CE.

But your fourth point is exactly what i am talking about "when economic situations are ripe." In a situation where 99% of everyone is buying up ce, the opportunity for a few wealthy "investors" to drive the market up artificially is perfect. Place in a high bid (these need not be in the 500+ range) let people one and two it up, put in another chunk, let it get bid up, another chunk, sell off some CE. Remove bids. Let it work its way back down, and buy back a bit cheaper.

We all know we have done it. You need a few hundred CE, there are nothing but small bids in, so you put in a bid a little lower, and go on about your clockworks run, waiting for your bid to go through. If one of those bids is 100 or bigger, you are going to put your bid higher than that. You can wait for a few small bids to clear and get your CE, but you need to craft something, so you can't really wait for 100, 200, 300 lots to go through.

oh well.
It was all just a thoughtful suggestion. Some people will like it, some will not. Some will argue its right, some its wrong. We will all most likely leave this thread with the same opinion we had coming into it. I know I'm right, feel i have proved my right, and will feel that way tomorrow. 99% sure all of you are the same, no matter what your opinion is.

Good night to all. I am done in this thread. XD
Glad we had the chance to discuss it intelligently, thanks to all who participated. If we didn't come to a consensus at least it got people to thinking. With thought comes ideas, with ideas some good ones are bound to be formed, and when good ideas are had, the world becomes a better place.