Spiral Knights - Optimal Party Size for FSC and Vanaduke

Optimal Party Size for FSC and Vanaduke

20 replies [Last post]

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 22:02

Goofio

With the new mission system I've been running FSC more frequently; I usually go in a random group with 3 other people. Most groups can handle the Pre-Throne Room levels pretty well, but when we actually face Vanaduke, sometimes things go quite badly -- total chaos, requiring multiple energy revives and/or ultimate failure.

Today I went through FSC with a group, and only me and one other person went down to face Vanaduke. I was pretty worried going down because I had never tried Vanaduke with only two people, but it actually went smoother than any run I've done in a party of 3 or 4. One person shivered, one person blitzed. The floor was clear of fire almost the entire time because we were both able to stay behind Vanaduke to prevent him from swinging his mace.

I'm starting to wonder if 2 people is the perfect number for facing Vanaduke, as long as one person has a Shivermist Buster, and one person has a Blitz Needle.

So I was wondering, what do you think the optimal number of players for the Vanaduke fight is? Do you think things are harder with a full party?

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 22:11

Demonicsothe

Actually, vana only aggros on

Actually, vana only aggros on one person at a time. So if the shiv isnt standing in front of him, or the primary blitz isn't, he shouldn't be macing.

Duos have the advantage of: Better coordination between friends, blitz can unload anytime he wishes. They can also split clear D25.

Each additional person allows your party to kill faster, deal with trojans easier, and split clear rooms.

In vana, a full party can slag, shiv, and blitz. Without 4, you are commiting one person to handling 2 slags, or both blitz to kill slags, then taking vana.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 22:35

Goofio

The funny thing is, we

The funny thing is, we basically ignored the Slag Guards. We just dodged them and eventually they ended up frozen beside Vanaduke. It seems like attacking the Slag Guards can make things worse for your party, because the player ends up moving in front of Vanaduke and causes him swing his mace.

Sun, 03/11/2012 - 22:35

Demonicsothe

That's a mistake made by

That's a mistake made by inexperienced players. While you slag, you don't take potshots at vana. Let the shiv hold aggro with freeze until the floor is clear. And take your slag to the side. Run up and down the wall while hitting it. It's the same concept as baiting a trojan dash.

Or you could ignore until they all get frozen, which is a perfectly fine way of handling them.

Mon, 03/12/2012 - 01:35

Niichi

A lot of it depends on how

A lot of it depends on how experienced and skilled the players involved are. Personally I think a full 4 person party is the best because then you have every area covered, but this only really applies if everyone in that party knows what they are doing.

At this point I find it easier to solo Vana than fighting with an inexperienced group, although I much prefer going in with friends or guildies so they can help make it very straightforward.

Mon, 03/12/2012 - 04:30

Tom-Awsm

There's nothing more

There's nothing more satisfying than a good 4-man fsc/vanaduke run with only experienced and effective players, which can most certainly be better and faster than a duo. But those are hard to come by, and I actually prefer soloing to a mediocre or even good-but-slow party. Any number of all good players in a party always trumps a party with even 1 bad player in my book.

Mon, 03/12/2012 - 04:40

Xylka-Mkii

Optimal Number: 2-4 for

Optimal Number: 2-4 for me

I'm horrible Solo

Mon, 03/12/2012 - 06:04

Kickthebucket

did some yesterday with 3/4

did some yesterday with 3/4 people depending if one just ran it for the money.

1 shivermist, 1 needle and me... i was disrtacting slag guards like i allways do :D (can't have one of these run into the bomber or gunner now can we)

and i'll trow out the orbs surrounding him offcourse (and the occasional floor fire) it just depends on if the people know not to walk in front of him (otherwise total chaos)

Mon, 03/12/2012 - 06:10

Simohayha

Three, three, that's where it be

My smoothest Vanaduke fights have been 3-man runs (though if you have a group of 4 vets it's still the same philosophy, you just double on either slags or blitzes). One person shivers the whole time and makes sure they're never in front of vanaduke in case the blitz screws up and causes a swing. The blitz keeps charging and pewing, giving himself enough room so Vanaduke can't completely face him. The final person is the slagger. In the first two body phases slagging is easy because the zombies are a cakewalk, and he can join in blitzing once they're all gone. In the final phase, he has to aggro both slags. If he's really good he can kill them, but you honestly only need to dance with them and avoid dying while the team nukes Vana down, just making sure they never get a shot at your teammates because of your positioning when they charge. If the blitz has done his job of not getting hammered by Vana, there shouldn't be much fire around, so you'll have a lot of breathing room.

Mon, 03/12/2012 - 06:18

Kickthebucket

Simohayha sums it up realy

Simohayha sums it up realy nice :D

Mon, 03/12/2012 - 07:07

#10

Dragoonten

When i do vana runs i find it

When i do vana runs i find it a lot easier to do the pre-vana depths when theres someone using shiver a lot to keep the monsters in place.

Its easier to kill them when they cant run :)

Mon, 03/12/2012 - 07:09

#11

Tantarian

Any number is good as long as you know what you're doing.

Mon, 03/12/2012 - 07:24

#12

Nordlead

any size but solo. The

any size but solo. The competency of the players matters more. With a party of 4, this is what I like to happen.

1 person only blitzes. That is his only priority. He always has vana agro.
1 person always shivs. He just avoids getting hit, and if need be throws a water or two, but this should never be the case.
Last 2 people have a top priority of killing slags and watering floor. If those two things are done, then they blitz vana else do nothing.

works flawlessly and can beat vana in roughly 5-7 minutes.

@Dragoonten if you want to do it faster, switch from Shiv to Voltaic Tempest. It stops the jump (they almost always just jump strait up and down), damages the zombies, and allows you to easily push them together for better combos. Shiver just destroys knockback and multi monster combos. FoV in a large group of shock locked zombies works wonders :-D

Mon, 03/12/2012 - 07:28

#13

Vtmoon

3 is the magic number.

For me it's 3 or nicely UVed/trinketed weapons with 4.

I run with my friends Reqy and Sailormarty a lot and our runs are always under 30 minutes cause we got it down to what everyone does. With 3 players the constructs and undead all take 4 swings or less, if you have 4 players u need gear to be at very high range or above for dmg to make things under 4 swings.

As far as Vana goes the more the better assuming everyone is packing Blitz, like everyone mentioned u cover more area and have more fire power.

Again all goes to skill too.

Mon, 03/12/2012 - 08:36

#14

Cryoworld

Depends on how skilled your

Depends on how skilled your teammates are. I've done it before with just me and a guildie. One shivered, and I Blitzed, pausing to take care of the Guards/Slags when needed.

Or you could have a 4 man group that 3 of them die leaving only you, Vana, 2 guards and a crapload of shadow fire.

Mon, 03/12/2012 - 12:29

#15

Demonicsothe

@Cryo

That's the same as your friend dying and leaving you with the same amount of trouble.

Mon, 03/12/2012 - 13:17

#16

Simohayha

Not quite

Objection!

If one person screws up in a two man, it's a lot easier than being left alone in a four man...

Mon, 03/12/2012 - 13:30

#17

Jcasdfqwer

If you know what you're doing and you have a blitz, solo it. Vana has much less health if you are alone and you can kill him pretty quickly if you get accustomed to dodging slag charges and shadow fire a lot.

Mon, 03/12/2012 - 13:31

#18

Juances

Depends, with only 2 people enemies may have less life but they still kill you as easily if you're in a bad position to fight back.

Tue, 03/13/2012 - 15:17

#19

Evilduck

3 because it keeps HP at a

3 because it keeps HP at a convenient level, although I've been happier with 4 man parties since I started wearing a divine veil with my med fiend blitz because I can still one shot trojans if I aim well (of course, if everyone is competent, it matters less, but very often it's a relief to kill them quickly). 2 man parties are more fun than 4 man parties, too.

Tue, 03/13/2012 - 16:06

#20

Myllakka

---

Depends on the people in the party, but with the friends I usually run with, anything from 2 to 4 is usually quite smooth. Of the three options though, I prefer duoing or 3-manning Vana just because it keeps the HP relatively low.

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Optimal Party Size for FSC and Vanaduke